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I don’t believe for a minute this was a serious attempt. If it was then Corbyn’s team really are biblically inept.
This isn’t how you try and win backing from people. Particularly not in such a sensitive political arena. It looks like there was no prior consultation with other parties, no back channels opened up to negotiate options or look for suggestions just a letter saying ‘back me as PM’
So it’s either a cynical ploy to spread blame or it’s rank incompetence and political cluelessness
But all other pathways (the ones that might actually work) can be blocked by him?
In the unlikely event that a clear pathway were to emerge, that would command the confidence of sufficient Remain MPs (including Corbyn's supporters), then he should not block it. But I don't see such an event occuring.
It should be remembered that his proposal is a huge risk for him: given a commitment to a GE and Labour's current polling.
might not be so mad after all.
The only thing that’s mad about this whole situation is that remainers have been saying for months/years how bad a no deal brexit will be but now they have a simple and workable plan to stop it they’re not sure because it’s led by Corbyn. It’s pathetic, hypocritical and utterly self-serving. If we do leave with no deal, the remainers in all parties who refused to stop it will deserve everything they get.
The turning point in terms of my support for Corbyn was this
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/23/owen-smith-sacked-from-labour-party-frontbench
they’re not sure because it’s led by Corbyn. It’s pathetic, hypocritical and utterly self-serving.
as is Corbyn's refusal to stand aside for a more palatable candidate. For compromise to work, it needs to come from both sides. This is the totally ridiculous tribal/football nature of the situation. One side cannot score a goal without foul, the other can do no wrong in the eyes of the respective supporters.
Then we leave with no deal then. It’s that simple.
I fear it was always that simple. The circuitous and farcical window-dressing looks complex but at the end of the day this is a game of one half. Management are responsible. Try finding them.
Grandad finally holds out his hand with sweets, the kids complain, "no, no, we don't want them from you, we want someone else to give them to us!"
Sigh.
Meanwhile, Boris Johnson is off to Berlin and Paris this week.
I'm already braced for another week of cringing at his Trump-level skills of diplomacy, as he sets about lecturing our 'European Friends' and insult the intelligence of Emmanuel Macron and Angela Merkel.
Radio 4's world at one was from various parts of Ireland yesterday
What came across was a now weary resignation that we are looking at No Deal and this will be economically catastrophic on both sides of the border, with huge implications for the peace process
The difference is that the Irish know that they've got th EU lined up four-square behind them to champion their interests, economically and politically.
Northern Ireland knows they have the polar opposite of this. A Westminster Tory government that understands little, if anything, about their history and cares even less for their interests. They were quoting the immediate loss of 40,000+ jobs with the imposition of (30%+) tariffs in the farming and agriculture sector in the north alone, as that sector of the economy collapses overnight.
Unfortunately, it looks like the good Friday agreement is doomed if we carry on down this route, and a return to violence over there is now all but inevitable.
as is Corbyn’s refusal to stand aside for a more palatable candidate
Do you think there is time to agree on a new candidate? If the Tories and Libdems refuse to support Corbyn, why would we assume that labour MPs would support Ken Clarke or Harriet Harman? By the time a new candidate is found and deals are made we’ll be out.
Corbyn has done what is expected of him as leader of the opposition. Some on here have been moaning for ages that he wasn’t doing anything. Now he has they’ve changed their minds?
The onus is not on Corbyn to bend to a few MPs. He’s proposed a plan that will work, it’s their choice to decide on what is more important, Corbyn as PM for a few weeks, or a no deal brexit?
Grandad finally holds out his hand with sweets, the kids complain, “no, no, we don’t want them from you, we want someone else to give them to us!”
Complain about the “kids” all you want, or accept that a compromise in the national interest might not only be wise, but set your party up as one that holds the interest of the people at the heart of its objectives, just as we head into a general election… do what is needed to get that election (including dealing with the “kids”) and show you are the adults that the country should elect for 5 years or more to deliver the change you think is so important.
The onus is not on Corbyn to bend to a few MPs.
Indeed. Which is why someone else should be put forward who will bend to get enough MPs to support them just long enough to get an extension and an election. Let Corbyn stay pure ready to fight the election for Labour, not be a figure head supported by MPs from all parties.
Do you think there is time to agree on a new candidate?
Of course, it's just horse trading, shouldn't take more than an hour or so, there aren't that many names and they're all in the open and said they will step up, all it needs is a willingness to sit around a table and compromise.
The onus is not on Corbyn to bend to a few MPs.
Who cares who makes the first move, get over the fact that it's clearly tribal on both sides and it opens up any number of possibilities. The other side have said "Interesting, but not you, what else have you got?" Corbyn now has the chance to help delay/stop a no deal brexit, will he? D'you think?
This isn't engineering where there is just one solution, it's a bit of that and a bit of this...
EDIT: I will add this, This horsetrading for leadership amongst left and right is normal for most European governments who are used to coalition agreements and the compromise that goes along with it . It is however totally new to most UK parliamentarians and media, and are having to grapple with the new reality of no overall control. It's striking that the EU have remained one voice against the incapacity and indecision that marks ours
Goal post shifters, lot of them.
Even if Corbyn stands aside they won't be happy they will want something else.
Changukindycentredadstoryting were like this and look at them now. They're irrelevant. Flip flop chukka and his ship jumping.
Fighting only for a pretend remain and forgetting all the other shit stuff.
Not really bothered about the rough end of the UK either.
I do wonder why Tom Watson hasn't run a poll on twitter yet to vote Corbyn out.
You make a good case for a Labour government. Now… Labour need to do what needs doing to get an extension and an election, and then fight to get a Labour government with a mandate for all the changes it seeks, and for a referendum with a Remain option.
And still obsessing about Chukka & Watson… when there is a chance to throw out the Tories and force a general election within months… is… well…
Labour need to do what needs doing to get an extension
They already are. They have already made a huge compromise by offering to focus a new govt on a the single issue of extending A50 and holding a new election. Any other party would want to sieze power and hold on to it. It’s now up to the other parties and groups of MPs to compromise too in the interest of stopping no deal.
For me, it's not a question of not wanting my sweets from Corbyn, it's that I don't think there are sufficient numbers of the people who matter here (the MPs) who will take them from him. Hence the imperative to find a different sweetie man/woman, so that enough of those MPs can say, okay, I'll take sweeties from them, at least for a little while...
Just to get real for second, because however much you look at it you can’t take the politics out of it, if anyone thinks the Labour Party is going to plunge itself into a leadership crisis and massively damage their chances at the coming election by allowing a few Tory MPs and Libdems to dictate who their leader is then you are on another planet.
Yes, if Corbyn’s plan succeeds there could be a benefit for him and labour. There could equally be the opposite as there are still huge numbers of Brexiteers who will accuse them of betraying democracy. It’s a risk on both sides. The other parties/remain MPs need to recognise this and take some of the risk. In the nd it comes back to the simple question, do they want to avoid no deal or not?
Swinson, Hoey, Greive…all of them would have failed. Because none of them will raise themselves above their Party allegiances,
Swinson said in her letter to corbyn that the lib dems will vote against the government in a VONC. It's there in black and white.
It doesn't change the fact corbyn still doesn't have the numbers.
That's there in black and white too in Swinsons letter.
You're imaging things up! Read the letter, I even quoted the whole bloody thing for ease of reference.
if anyone thinks the Labour Party is going to plunge itself into a leadership crisis...by allowing a few Tory MPs and Libdems to dictate who their leader is then you are on another planet.
The same equally applies to those on the other side of the house. Greive has already seen off a threat of deselection from his own constituent party In all likelihood this will cost him his seat in the next GE. If it goes belly up, everyone is under threat from losing their seat, not just Labour politicians. Plus, y'know, this...
their chances at the coming election
Labour are NOT going to be in a position to form a majority government (because: Maths), probably no one will for the foreseeable future, stop fighting the last war...that's going to be the future of our governments from now on, it's about time they learned to work together.
As ever, Marina Hyde sums up this farce better than anyone...
‘National Unity’: the fantasy flick that will never make it out of development
The Liberal Democrats will do anything to stop Brexit, except for the things they won’t; Labour would love to stop the Tories’ version of Brexit, but first they just want to look busy and set this quick trap for the Lib Dems; the Greens want the headlines for a day and they’ve got a plan just batshit enough to secure them; and so on. Dominic Cummings must be cackling.
stop fighting the last war…that’s going to be the future of our governments from now on, it’s about time they learned to work together.
Absolutely this!
The days of majority governments are over for the foreseeable future, possibly for good.
That's no bad thing IMHO. So this situation would be an ideal opportunity for our political dinosaurs to try and drag themselves into the 21st century and acknowledge the new reality.
But then nobody in Westminster is really doing reality at the moment, are they?
Well, apart from Dominic Cummings. He certainly seems to get it
Jo Swinson
As I said before the start of the summer Recess, the Liberal Democrats will support a motion of no confidence in the government if it is brought before the House of Commons
Based on on-the-record statements that have already been made, at least seven MPs on the opposition benches have indicated they would not give you confidence in these circumstances. Regardless of how my party were to vote in those circumstances, in order for you to command the confidence of the House, at least eight Conservative MPs would need to support you in taking office. For this and other reasons, I do not believe your plan is viable.
I would be happy and keen to meet in the coming days to discuss how our parties can work together to stop “No Deal” and who else might be able to lead an emergency government.
Whos playing games now?
Um Jo Swinson? Plus everyone else. FFS.
Greive has already seen off a threat of deselection from his own constituent party In all likelihood this will cost him his seat in the next GE. If it goes belly up, everyone is under threat from losing their seat
Dominic Greive has been on the TV every other day warning about Brexit and especially No Deal but when it comes to the crunch he is a self serving hypocrite. FFS how old is he? How much money has he in the bank? He doesn't need to keep his seat.
Jo Swinson
Crikey 🤔
Dominic Greive ... is a self serving hypocrite.
You should listen to Ken Clarke suggesting himself to be the next PM 🤣
There isn’t a single politician of any party who emerges with any credibility from this farce.
All are putting themselves first, party second and the country a very very distant third
That they can all indulge in their petty point scoring when we’re literally staring at a cliff edge shows how utterly detached from reality they are
They’ll all be fine, of course, whatever happens
Then we leave with no deal then. It’s that simple
thing is well leave and then have to do some deal and looking at how successful the enterprise has been so far and the amount of money spaffd I can’t see the fun ending anytime soon.
I think the brexit gravytrains going to run an run without any wheels for years.
There isn’t a single politician of any english party who emerges with any credibility from this farce.
fixed that.
All are putting themselves first, party second and the country a very very distant third
I know you want things to be simple Binners but it's not that simple. Most of them voted against their personal views because the country voted to leave. So that's pretty much the opposite if what you said.
The person who put party before country was Cameron.
I know you want things to be simple Binners but it’s not that simple. Most of them voted against their personal views because the country voted to leave. So that’s pretty much the opposite if what you said.
Agreed. We keep forgetting that it was about trying to deliver the undeliverable.
The fact that it's stalled thus far is evidence to me that the system has sort of worked in that things have been tested.
Everything is in conflict.
But we still have to find away of supporting our democracy. I would like to think anything I voted for that got a majority would ultimately be delivered.
They have to find a way through.
The whole thing has proven to me that our politicians do not give two iota's how many suffer.
They would happily walk past the queues for food banks, the overflowing job centres and over a pile of corpses of those who can't get essential medicines if it got them slightly more power and money. Boris Johnson is the worst culprit but the fiddling whilst Rome burns shows they are (largely) all the same. Two faced ****ers.
I really couldn't care less about being British anymore. We are a joke
My feelings exactly.. I'm going to see how it plays out but I had an Irish grandparent, so I might well get Irish/duel citizenship and bugger off to Spain.
Worst can't express how I feel about the way this country is going. The only thing really keeping me in the UK is my English grandmother.
There isn’t a single politician of any english party who emerges with any credibility from this farce.
fixed that.
So did the SNP vote for May's Brexit deal? If not then they are complicit along with everyone else if we end up with no deal.
We keep forgetting that it was about trying to deliver the undeliverable.
I would like to think anything I voted for that got a majority would ultimately be delivered.
What if… now this may seem crazy… you were promised something undeliverable… voted for it along with a slight majority of voters… only to, years down the track, see something that looks entirely different being delivered off the back of your vote? Would you mind if politicians checked in with you to confirm that you, and at least half of voters, were happy for them to proceed?
So did the SNP vote for May’s Brexit deal? If not then they are complicit along with everyone else if we end up with no deal.
More revisionist Brexiteer nonsense, trying to apportion blame onto the other parties - the main reason we're in this mess is down to the ERG members of the Conservative party and there insistence on 'red lines' that virtually eliminated any other options. If they'd agreed to a CU, we wouldn't need the backstop which has resulted in abject failure to negotiate any sort of deal
Corbyn does NOT have to resign as leader of the labour party to put forward or accept a compromise candidate. He could still be leader of the labour party going into the next election.
One thing that is clear however is Swinson by her actions made any chance of agreement much more distant by antagonising many people.
?rone - its clear there is no majority for brexit now.
I agree with TJ, again.
Help! Its a rose garden moment. I feel defiled!
What if… now this may seem crazy… you were promised something undeliverable
But that is hindsight.
Would you mind if politicians checked in with you to confirm that you, and at least half of voters, were happy for them to proceed?
That's not how it works is it.
Tories deliver stuff all the time that goes against the grain and what is for the well-being of large swathes of people. To devastating effect.
But I/we have to live with it.
Sure we get a chance to vote them out every now and again but it doesn't appease Labour voters does it?
?rone – its clear there is no majority for brexit now
How can it be clear without an actual referendum?
Corbyn does NOT have to resign as leader of the labour party
In a normal world maybe not, but in the context of the fact that labour moderates have been using brexit as a vehicle to depose him it’s never going to happen. If if he was feeling extremely generous and was tempted to allow another candidate to be interim PM, the FPA makes it impossible as he’d never risk labour MPs voting against the new election, leaving whoever is PM in place til 2022 (and we all know they would do it).
No, the plan is on the table, it will work, and there is precious little time. It’s up to the MPs who have previously said they will put the interests of the country first to put their money where their mouths are. If they don’t, Johnson wins. As Kelvin used to like saying, the clock is ticking.
Well, if the temporary PM is just to ask the EU for an extension, so an election can then occur… why do they have to personally back a referendum? Corbyn’s letter makes it clear that a referendum would not be called by the temporary PM… and that would not come ‘till after the election. Clarke as temporary PM wouldn’t call a referendum. Corbyn as temporary PM wouldn’t call a referendum.
Clarke has been consistent in saying that this issue shouldn’t have been put to a referendum in 2016, and shouldn’t be again, hasn’t he? I don’t agree with him… thanks to the 2016 referendum I don’t think we can proceed with any option now… EU membership, some kind of soft Brexit EEA style, no deal, anything… without another referendum.
dazh
Subscriber
You have to laugh
That's because he's always been adamant we should just revoke it
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/matt-frei/ken-clarke-revoke-article-50/
Why do the corbynites become so defensive they start lying ?