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Erm... Kate Hoey most certainly is a Labour MP
She’s standing down before the next election, But as it stands she is still a Labour MP. One of the lifelong rabidly anti-EU ones like a certain right honourable J Corbyn
Sigh… Corbyn doesn’t have the numbers.. it’s not difficult maths.
Nobody ‘has’ the numbers.
Nobody ‘has’ the numbers.
The nuance here is corbyn doesn't have the numbers. That's basically fact.
A more moderate strictly temporary MP could pull it off.
If he threw the tory leavers a bone, Ken Clark for example, I could see some tory MPs crossing the floor.
Don’t really care whether she calls herself a labour MP or holds the whip, she’s not a labour MP and never has been. It doesn’t change the reality that those who oppose brexit should support Corbyn’s plan. It’s the only feasible option to avoid no deal.
You're like a stuck record, like ransos.
It won't work, not enough tories will go for it and a few Labour ones won't either. It's a non starter if Jez insists on being the interim PM.
Jezza needs to wake up and agree to field a more moderate candidate if his intentions are really to prevent no deal.
You’re like a stuck record, like ransos.
Still waiting for the alternative proposal that will work.
Jezza needs to wake up and agree to field a more moderate candidate if his intentions are really to prevent no deal.
No, his opponents need to get over themselves.
A stalemate within a stalemate.
Still waiting for the alternative proposal that will work.
Corbyn needs to agree a compromise and agree to a more paletable interim head of government with the LDs, with SNP with the greens, greens and plaid.
Either a moderate tory or a Labour remainer is the only real option.
We'll see his true colours based on whether he's prepared to compromise.
If he insists on being in charge the whole thing is a waste of time, as he's got no chance of passing a VONC without cross party support.
If he insists on being in charge the whole thing is a waste of time, as he’s got no chance of passing a VONC without cross party support.
Not so- the two issues are separate.
You’re after an alternate proposal that will work?
Grandad calls for a VONC proposing a less divisive candidate than himself for temporary caretaker PM, who could attract enough cross-party support to make the VONC worth doing and winnable, and not just a pointless window dressing exercise.
There... that wasn’t difficult, was it comrade?
I’m surprised nobody had mentioned it already
Oh...
What is needed is open discussions between all interested groups. We know there is a huge majority for remain in the HOC. History will judge them poorly if the let party or career over country.
VONC and who is next leader are different issues
FFS the VONC won't pass unless there's some sort of assurance around who the interim leader might be.
Jezza is currently saying it's jezza, so it's not going to work.
Hopefully the cross party talks will change that, otherwise jezza will go down in history as the man who's refusal to compromise enabled no deal.
Sorry to paraphrase Binners, but I suspect he's still holding onto his red unicorns, comrades!
VONC and who is the new leader are different issues
I doubt very much that Jeremy, Seamas and Len see them as separate issues.
I certainly see no sign, given their track record, that they will act like they are
Party before country, just like the Tory’s
Or in the same way, Party within a Party before country.
Let’s narrow it down even further
Try hard and you could get it down to 160,000
There's some time to go before anyone gets to vote on anything, isn't there? So there are many games still left to play.
Grandad calls for a VONC proposing a less divisive candidate than himself for temporary caretaker PM, who could attract enough cross-party support to make the VONC worth doing and winnable, and not just a pointless window dressing exercise.
Who is this person and how many votes will they get? This will require you to engage brain rather than mouth, so may well be beyond you.
I could give you a really long list, but ‘anyone but Corbyn’ would cover most of them, comrade.
Are the carbon monoxide levels getting a bit high in there? Maybe you should consider getting out for some fresh air?
As I suspected, brain rather than mouth seems to be a bit tricky.
im not sure why there is so much focus on the lib dems, there are more independent candidates than lib dems, fifteen v fourteen, there are more labour MPs, twenty odd, that have consistently voted for Brexit rather than party. Given that we don't know what the independents will do, split them fifty fifty, so assuming all snp, plaid, green, libs vote no confidence, to win labour need twenty eight tories to vote down the govt. that's a big ask. There needs to be a concrete plan they find acceptable for that to happen.
Of course if JC was leading labour well, they would support him and they would need around eight defectors
Doesn't matter who is leading labour - around 20 of them are committed brexiteers and another 50 ish scared of racists in their constituencies not voting for them so support brexit agnst their own principles
Spineless and deluded the lot of them
History will judge all poorly those who allow this madness to go ahead
there is a huge remain majority in the HOC. time to grow some backbone
Bloody hell… I’m agreeing with TJ, again.
It’s almost like no names have already been suggested. Fred West? The remaining Chuckle Brother? Silvio Berlesconi, Chris Eubank in a youth hostel?
Maybe the one we’ve missed to lead the country out of this darkest of times should be a question?
What would Richard Branson look like if he’d been smoking spice for 6 months, and started having paranoid delusions about German federalism?
Maybe that’s what the next prime minister needs to be?
Makes you think....
Sweet baby jesus and the orphans! I actually agree with a statement that TJ has made! 😳
Has someone changed your medication uncle Jezza? 😉
So no-deal must be stopped at all costs except JC being a temporary PM to ask for an extension and announce a GE?
Are they worried JC will nationalise everything before the GE? What are they worried about? If the votes are not there For JC then surely they are not there for anyone.
What are they worried about?
Good question. When it comes down to it they fear Corbyn more than no deal. And they have the cheek to claim the remain high ground. A no deal brexit delivered by the very people who have spent the last 3 years preaching about how bad it will be. Hypocrites the lot of them.
When it comes down to it they fear Corbyn more than no deal.
Yes, there are Tories that fear putting power into Corbyn’s hands more than they fear a No Deal Brexit. They’re nuts, of course, but they are needed to get this over the line… waving hands in the air and wailing “why won’t these people, who I don’t politically align with normally, do what I see as sensible” won’t get us anywhere. Just pick someone that enough people can back putting in place for just long enough to talk to the EU to win time for the political process to play out with election(s) and/or a referendum. Why on earth does it have to be Corbyn? He should be concentrating on winning that election about to hit us (and making that new promise of a referendum with a Remain option his means of pulling votes away from the other parties… that news hasn’t hit 90% of the population yet). Starmer would do just fine, if Clarke&Harman aren’t acceptable to the Labour team.
Why does it have to be Corbyn? Because he is leader of the largest group in the anti no-deal block and he is the one caliing a VONC.
I don't see how a it being Starmer will make a difference for any Tory. What if JC is standing next to KS? Will that put them off? Does JC need to stand down as leader? It all gets a bit daft if its another Labour bod.
Ken Clarke I can see might work for Tory people- but will he lose votes from the other side?
Labour getting KC to stand in could work politically for them, it would deepen the split in the Tory party.
Isn't this really Peru simple??
Most solutions to get rid of BJ need multiple people to put country media before party. They are despicable, yes, but predictable. They won't.
Corbyn could finally make a huge and real impact now. Handed to him on a plate.
Corbyn is in an incredible position. Just changing his own stance on being caretaker PM will change anything. Everything.
He could wake up today and tweet that he is willing to let someone else become temporary PM. No need to convince others, just himself. Truly country before party stuff.
I want to like Corbyn, there is much he says I agree with but I won't forget his half arsed support of Remain but I could be made to forgive it.
I doubly won't forget that he has a second chance here. A little short term inconvenience that might well be taken up by much of the populous as a final vindication that we actually have a politician capable of putting country first.
Instead. No. His way or No Deal. Just like the rest of them.
What are they worried about?
That Corbyn as PM will be seen as a reasonable man with democratic socialist principles that the public at large will like - thats what they are scared of. Spend years demonising someone and some of the mud has stuck, but as PM he would have to get a fairer press and be much more able to make his own positions known so all the lies about him would be seen for what they are. Thats what they are scared of.
That Corbyn as PM will be seen as a reasonable man with democratic socialist principles that the public at large will like
Exactly. What has he ever done that was bad, what has he ever voted on that wasn't the right way to go for 99% of his time as MP. He is a crap leader but who cares, it is a temporary government, nothing material will change other than not going ahead with no deal.
I bet Farage is laughing himself silly at the current situation. If the VONC against BoJo is successful and October 31st exit doesn't happen, it wouldn't surprise me if Farage and his rent a racist MP wannabe's mop up at the next General Election. Whatever the outcome, we're doomed.
I don't even think it's that deep tj. A conservative mp who votes for Corbyn is likely to loose there seat in the next election/ face deselection by their local association. They don't want to loose their jobs.
Very much agree with Poopscoop.
But a GE will solve nothing; if I were the EU I'd say extension for a referendum, but not a GE. We've had a GE that's made the parliamentary arithmetic worse. I think it will only get less good with both cons and lab loosing seats to smaller parties. Then what? Probably no deal.
I do believe thats certainly a large part of the motivation from people like Swinson. Ummna will not vote for Corbyn under any circumstances 'cos he is a fud.
It’s almost like no names have already been suggested. Fred West? The remaining Chuckle Brother? Silvio Berlesconi, Chris Eubank in a youth hostel?
Yet no-one has been able to say why these other people are more likely to succeed. It's almost as if they know they won't, but can't admit that Corbyn is right about something.
It's ridiculously simple - they will succeed if they get the numbers. Clarke has said he would be happy to lead a short term govt. Swinson says that she had asked Harman before proposing her. Hopefully someone sensible is canvassing opinion among MPs to find out if one of them would get majority support; and it will be in the news if it appears they will or won't.
All we know for now is that at present Corbyn would not command a majority which means a VONC is not worth holding until either opinion among MPs of Corbyn changes or someone emerges who is palatable to the majority. As previously said, Corbyn himself has not ruled out another caretaker leader; it's just what his henchmen have been saying. However the Labour Party message has been so fractured in recent months I don't give them much credence.
Edit. Useful info graphic in the Grauniad re. The numbers https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/16/who-can-corbyn-convince-to-back-him-as-caretaker-pm
Yet no-one has been able to say why these other people are more likely to succeed.
Because they are not Corbyn.
Dominic Grieve has said no to Corbyn… so you’re safe to assume that he’s not the only possible Conservative rebel that thinks the same way. The MPs who felt they were pushed out of the Labour Party since Corbyn became leader won’t support him either. So, find someone else they can all back (people have made sensible suggestions, but there are many more that would do) that can still take the Labour MPs with them as well.
So, find someone else they can all back (people have made sensible suggestions, but there are many more that would do) that can still take the Labour MPs with them as well.
I don't think such a person exists, and we will waste valuable time trying to find them. That's why I think that it's Corbyn's plan or No Deal.
Tories MP won't back Corbyn, no way.
Tories MP won’t back Corbyn, no way.
Then we leave with no deal then. It’s that simple.
I doubly won’t forget that he has a second chance here. A little short term inconvenience that might well be taken up by much of the populous as a final vindication that we actually have a politician capable of putting country first.
Instead. No. His way or No Deal. Just like the rest of them.
This i agree with
That said, push come to shove, if he's not willing to be the bigger man then it's up to the others to be, and vote for him. And by not doing so they should be held just as responsible for brexit.
Shambles every single one of them..
That’s why I think that it’s Corbyn’s plan or No Deal.
Then we leave with no deal then. It’s that simple.
And by not doing so they should be held just as responsible for brexit.
Hmm… Binners seemingly mad rant about this “offer” from Corbyn being about smearing the blame for the hardest of Brexits around, without stopping it, might not be so mad after all.
Hmm… Binners seemingly mad rant about this “offer” from Corbyn being about smearing the blame for the hardest of Brexits around, without stopping it, might not be so mad after all.
Yep, it's his fault that others won't back his clear pathway to avoiding no deal. The contortions on this thread are mind boggling.
But all other pathways (the ones that might actually work) can be blocked by him? Anyway, hopefully TJ is right and he will move to a compromise position to get others onside. I doubt we’ll find out ‘till his team consider it the final moment though (which on past experience means just after the point where it’s too late).
Then we leave with no deal then. It’s that simple.
and Corbyn Swinson, Hoey, Greive...all of them would have failed. Because none of them will raise themselves above their Party allegiances, and none will compromise. what a bit of a mess