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so he can have a GE not whats really needed which is a 2nd ref on the exit terms or remain
If there's going to be a 2nd referendum there needs to be a mandate for it, which can only be achieved by a GE. Given the current state of the labour party you might wonder why Corbyn would want an election right now. Unlike the libdems though he's willing to put his money where his mouth is and go to the people.
FFS
What's up? Tired of the mental gymnastics? 🙂
Corbyns offer is the starting point for discussions. If it becomes clear ( as I suspect it will do) that a different candidate for PM for the interim period is the only way of getting this interim government then I expect labour to go for it
The EU side have made it clear that an extension for either a second ref or a GE is possible.
If there’s going to be a 2nd referendum there needs to be a mandate for it, which can only be achieved by a GE
theres no mandate to leave without a deal (Tory manifesto clearly said we'd leave with an orderly deal)
if a caretaker government was elected by MPs 2 give a 2nd ref, thats a mandate
yes absolutely they are dicks, but that is reality
so if we want a hard brexit stopped it has to be someone who can get support from all MPs who oppose no deal
The people in this thread throwing rocks at Corbyn should be instead throwing them at "the dicks" who are refusing to compromise.
As for the second part of your argument, that person does not exist. Corbyn has plenty of supporters in the PLP, whatever binners may say, so it would be pretty unrealistic to expect them to vote for someone else after their elected leader was forced to step aside for no good reason.
Corbyns offer is the starting point for discussions. If it becomes clear ( as I suspect it will do) that a different candidate for PM for the interim period is the only way of getting this interim government then I expect labour to go for it
its already clear a different candidate is needed,
If labour want to stop no deal they need unity candidates from both sides- grieve/starmer, harman/clarke etc
yes & as peston points out it doesnt make much sense,
On that, he called Corbyn's proposal naive. Given how effectively it flushed out the Lib Dems I'd say he got that analysis completely wrong.
so it would be pretty unrealistic to expect them to vote for someone else after their elected leader was forced to step aside for no good reason.
Id say stopping no deal brexit was a pretty good reason
Id say stopping no deal brexit was a pretty good reason
The best way to do that is to back Corbyn.
Given how effectively it flushed out the Lib Dems I’d say he got that analysis completely wrong.
I agree it was a trap for Swinson, but her letter posted up there has thrown it back on him, especially now grieve has come out & said they wont back him
I agree it was a trap for Swinson, but her letter posted up there has thrown it back on him, especially now grieve has come out & said they wont back him
Because they prefer no deal to backing his plan. So much for "bollocks to Brexit".
The best way to do that is to back Corbyn.
Id be quite happy with a corbyn government, I think we need a giant swing to the left to try & fix many of our long term problems, but none of that will happen if no deal brexit goes ahead
but importantly Im not one of the Tory MPs that would have to vote for him
thats the reality
As I’ve already said, there cannot, by definition, be a government of national unity.
It's just a name, call it an emergency government or an interim goverment or what ever if you want.
Because they prefer no deal to backing his plan. So much for “bollocks to Brexit”.
im sorry but thats just silly, if corbyn cant get the votes from tory moderates then his plan is a non-starter and the lib dems were right to reject it
any plan has to be based in reality
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1162117238645764101
if a caretaker government was elected by MPs 2 give a 2nd ref, thats a mandate
Mandates come from the people via an election, not a few hundred MPs.
im sorry but thats just silly, if corbyn cant get the votes from tory moderates then his plan is a non-starter and the lib dems were right to reject it
Yes, backing no deal over his proposal is indeed very silly, pathetic and childish.
This proposal is ready to go now. Any alternative just wastes time we don't have, and for no good reason.
It’s just a name, call it an emergency government or an interim goverment or what ever if you want.
It would be a minority government representing Remain. I have this outrageous idea that the leader of a minority government should be the leader of the largest party within that group.
Corbyn would not have to step aside as leader of the labour party to have a different person as PM. He would still be able to go into the next election as the labour candidate.
Because they prefer no deal to backing his plan. So much for “bollocks to Brexit”.
Corbyn. Doesn't. Have. The. Numbers. It's. Achedemic. Unless. He. Puts. Forward. Someone. Less. Divisive.
This proposal is ready to go now. Any alternative just wastes time we don’t have, and for no good reason.
theres a very good reason for an alternative- they might actually have a chance of succeeding
theres a very good reason for an alternative- they might actually have a chance of succeeding
The best chance of succeeding is to back Corbyn.
The best chance of succeeding is to back Corbyn.
Keep pushing that message. On loop.
he best chance of succeeding is to back Corbyn.
I'd say the only chance is to back Corbyn. If Corbyn is forced to step aside, they lose a huge chunk of the labour party and have the opposite problem. Parliamentary convention and precedent is with Corbyn's plan, time is with Corbyn's plan, and common sense is with Corbyn's plan. If MPs refuse to back it, Johnson wins. It's that simple really.
Corbyn would not have to step aside as leader of the labour party to have a different person as PM. He would still be able to go into the next election as the labour candidate.
I agree with TJ.
The best chance of succeeding is to back Corbyn.
Jo Swinson
As I said before the start of the summer Recess, the Liberal Democrats will support a motion of no confidence in the government if it is brought before the House of Commons
Based on on-the-record statements that have already been made, at least seven MPs on the opposition benches have indicated they would not give you confidence in these circumstances. Regardless of how my party were to vote in those circumstances, in order for you to command the confidence of the House, at least eight Conservative MPs would need to support you in taking office. For this and other reasons, I do not believe your plan is viable.
I would be happy and keen to meet in the coming days to discuss how our parties can work together to stop “No Deal” and who else might be able to lead an emergency government.
Whos playing games now?
I’d say the only chance is to back Corbyn.
Keep pushing. On loop. Or take a step back, have a think, and stop parroting that line. Try going just a tiny bit off message. You might feel just that little bit more free.
This surprises me… I assumed one would have to be PM, and the other deputy… but no…
https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1162054872008708096?s=21
No idea how much legs this idea has in reality… but it’s an option I think would get a lot of support in the country at large, not just with MPs.
Keep pushing that message. On loop.
We both know it's true, for the reasons Dazh outlined. We're told that the Lib Dems will try to stop Brexit at all costs, yet they've fallen at the first hurdle. It seems that a few weeks of Corbyn as caretaker PM is less palatable to Swinson than 5 years of propping up Cameron.
The choice is simple: Corbyn's plan, or no deal Brexit.
The best chance of succeeding is to back Corbyn.
If youre going to keep saying this youre going to have to show us how he's going to get the Tory remainers to vote for it
Keep pushing. On loop. Or take a step back, have a think, and stop parroting that line. Try going just a tiny bit off message. You might feel just that little bit more free.
I'm looking forward to your alternative proposal that can be delivered in time and command more votes. Off you pop.
If youre going to keep saying this youre going to have to show us how he’s going to get the Tory remainers to vote for it
And 7 of his own..
Based on on-the-record statements that have already been made, at least seven MPs on the opposition benches have indicated they would not give you confidence in these circumstances.
He doesnt have the numbers.
If youre going to keep saying this youre going to have to show us how he’s going to get the Tory remainers to vote for it
I've no idea if ultimately they will or won't. But it's the only show in town, so ultimately they will have to decide on their priorities.
theres a very good reason for an alternative- they might actually have a chance of succeeding
The best chance of succeeding is to back Corbyn.
For all his faults real and/or imagined I would trust Corbyn to do what he says. I agree with the sentiment - if avoiding no deal is paramount then all MPs should be willing to go along with Corbyn as interim leader. I am not convinced that any other MP could actually unite greater numbers anyway. I’d be happy with John McDonnell, but no doubt there would be a good number unhappy with him.
Essentially, this thread amongst other things has (almost) convinced me that we will leave with no deal. Time to start preparing as best we can. Any tips?
Essentially, this thread amongst other things has (almost) convinced me that we will leave with no deal. Time to start preparing as best we can. Any tips?
Yeah no deal is the most likely outcome
The chances of pulling off an interim government after a VONC are pretty small
I actually agree with TJ that Corbyn ultimately would let someone else be the boss to make it happen, but it seems that his fans steadfastly refuse to accept anyone else and he simply doesnt have the numbers, unless gauke, or grieve etc say they'll change their minds
I actually agree with TJ that Corbyn ultimately would let someone else be the boss to make it happen, but it seems that his fans steadfastly refuse to accept anyone else and he simply doesnt have the numbers, unless gauke, or grieve etc say they’ll change their minds
I think you've fundamentally misunderstood the problem. I support Corbyn's proposal not because I think it has a fantastic chance, but because nothing else has any chance.
but because nothing else has any chance.
why do you think that?
why for example wouldnt the harman/clarke idea work?
Didn’t John McDonnel say last week that if Labour got in power they’d put the Tories on trial? Presumably with a view to sending them to the salt mines?
That should have the Tory defectors queuing up to vote to make grandad PM 😂
Sorry guys - its not the only deal in town unless corbyn wants to commit electoral suicide. What Corbyns offer is is the starting point for negotiations. What the outcome of those discussions is is not yet known
However Swinsons actions and words have made any deal to get out of this mess less likely.
From the statements made by Tory remainers already, he hasn’t got a cat in hells chance of getting the support he needs.
Let’s be honest, with someone as divisive as grandad, it’s like asking a load of Celtic season ticket holders to cheer on Rangers.
I can’t see why the Labour Party wouldn’t get behind the idea of Ken Clarke and Harriet Harman as a compromise, when both of them have already said they’re up for it, and it looks like it’s a goer?
Unless this is all just posturing?
Surely not?
I think the “Labour Party” could get behind it. You know who would not though…
Anyway, the obvious middle ground is to dump both ideas… (although I’d be very happy with either myself) …no installing any party leader as PM …no installing a pair of outgoing “safe hands” MPs …and instead find a suitable single Labour MP to perform the task. One who has been loyal to the party leadership, can be business like with the EU, and doesn’t have a history that scares off MPs from other parties that they need support from.
Starmer would be ideal.
If youre going to keep saying this youre going to have to show us how he’s going to get the Tory remainers to vote for it
Tort remainers, like the Lib-Dems and others, will have a simple choice, back the only realistic and certain plan on the table, or put their faith in Johnson or something else as yet undefined to avoid a no deal. Certainty or a gamble. It’s up to them. Corbyn’s plan will work if it has the support. Only the Tories and Lib Dem’s can defeat it.
Well.... not really. Kate Hoey and the rest of the Labour leavers (who, lest we forget, until recently included grandad himself)!won’t support it either
It was dead on arrival with the insistence of Steptoe as PM
But then they knew that...
Let’s make it look like we’re doing something...
You write a letter, I’ll do a tweet
Courgette?
Kate Hoey isn’t a labour MP.
Kate Hoey isn’t a labour MP.
Whatever you say Dazh.
Or do you mean that she shouldn’t be a Labour MP?
Has she resigned the whip? NOt that I am aware of.
Sigh... Corbyn doesn't have the numbers.. it's not difficult maths.
Not enough tories will vote against thier own, and several Labour MPs won't support him either.
Corbyn needs to agree to field a more moderate candidate than himself. Whether his ego will allow that remains to be seen.
Whoever it is will only be in office a few months.