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The Brecon byelection looks set to be a lib dem landslide thanks to the greens and plaid stepping aside.
That would bring the tories majority down to 1MP.. Remembering 10 tory votes are just DUP.
That sets the stage for a VONC from Labour.. If magic grandad pulls his finger out we could have a GE and a completely hung parliament...
I suppose the prospect of a GE would at least prevent crash out in October, but then what?
Lib-green-plaid could probably muster the numbers for a majority coalition?
The tories seem to hate the brexit party but I suppose we can't rule out a deal there either..
Lib Dems unders swinson will only do deals with the tories - thats pretty clear. they have moved to where the tories were 20 years ago.
Lib-green-plaid could probably muster the numbers for a majority coalition?
I think LD-Green-Plaid-SNP could based on remain, given the Brexit Party has taken both Labour and Tory votes. Seems a bit of a stretch though? Are we actually allowed rainbow coalitions like that?
Lib Dems unders swinson will only do deals with the tories – thats pretty clear. they have moved to where the tories were 20 years ago.
Errm the lib dems have, unsurprisingly, explicitly rulled out a partnership with the tories.
I can't imagine why, lol!
They've also suggested a deal with labour is pretty much impossible too.
I can't imagine why! Lol!
Also it's quite refreshing a party having a clear defined stance! Donchathink?
I think LD-Green-Plaid-SNP could based on remain, given the Brexit Party has taken both Labour and Tory votes. Seems a bit of a stretch though? Are we actually allowed rainbow coalitions like that?
It would be unprecedented.. But unpecidented things are hardly news these days.. I'm not aware of any reason it's not allowed.
Although I can't see the SNP getting on board.
Lib dems and Greens alone might have the numbers, plaid would be a bonus.
Remember all 3 of those parties are already working together, and not standing strategically so as not to split the remain vote in contested areas.
Expect similar tactics of a GE is called.
Also it’s quite refreshing a party having a clear defined stance! Donchathink?
Yeah like the Libdems stance on tutition fees. So clear they put it in print.
FFsake Klunk, give that one a rest will you?, if that is all you can interpret from the coalition and a deciding matter then you are being very selective, Off the top of my head I could name quite a few very effective areas where the Lib Dem's reined in the Tories plans.
I suppose the prospect of a GE would at least prevent crash out in October, but then what?
But would it? If a GE is called and parliament dissolved prior to Oct 31st do we just crash out before a new government is in place?
Are we actually allowed rainbow coalitions like that?
Why not?
if that is all you can interpret from the coalition and a deciding matter then you are being very selective,
Who mentioned the coalition ? It's a matter of whether you can trust what politicians say. It proves the Libdems Torylight are no more trust worthy than the next party.
But would it? If a GE is called and parliament dissolved prior to Oct 31st do we just crash out before a new government is in place?
Well we'd be relying on the good faith of the EU, they have repeatedly said a GE or a ref2 would put things on hold, so in theory we'd get another extension (sorry, miss! The dog ate my homework). It's not in thier interests either for us to crash out, and the EU had repeatedly demonstrated that they are pragmatic and that they don't go back on what they say, as they've already considered and collectively agreed what they will do, in contrast to the UK which appears to be dancing the political funky chicken.
But would it?
Indeed. The last day of parliament sitting where a VONC could be called, possibly ending up with a general election before our current exit date, has now passed. Jeremy had a rally the next day to celebrate it passing — no, sorry, to call for the chance to have been seized by himself, or something. Push this government out now, and you need to have a government ready to replace it, without an election, to request an extension from the EU before calling an election. And the big problem with that is it looks to many normal people in the street as undemocratically stopping Brexit… or at least you know it will be painted that way for them.
Errm the lib dems have, unsurprisingly, explicitly rulled out a partnership with the tories.
Cite? Because thats not what I have seen. Deal with anyone bar the labour party
Lib dems / greens / plaid / snp are not going to get anywhere near a majority
Off the top of my head I could name quite a few very effective areas where the Lib Dem’s reined in the Tories plans.
Really - name a couple then.
And … back to the EU, and the issues in hand … this year … approaching like a steam train …
The last day of parliament sitting where a VONC could be called, possibly ending up with a general election before our current exit date, has now passed.
4 weeks from dissolution of parliament to a new election. 2 weeks max from vonc to dissolution
12 weeks to brexit day
Who mentioned the coalition ? It’s a matter of whether you can trust what politicians say. It proves the Libdems Torylight are no more trust worthy than the next party.
You're clutching at straws there, Kerplunk.
Like it or loath it, the tuition fees stance is old news, and from my understanding has actually cost the taxpayer more than the students.. The price might be higher but the repayments are on such a sliding scale that the student (now I'm a profession) they hardly hit thier pay checks.
Unless your name is tarquin and your degree is media studies.
12 weeks to brexit day
When does Parliament next have a sitting day when a VONC process can be kicked off by the opposition?
4 weeks from dissolution of parliament to a new election. 2 weeks max from vonc to dissolution
12 weeks to brexit day
But parliament doesn't sit until 3rd Sep, plus 2 weeks for defeated government to try to cling to power after VONC.
Ah - missed that! Doh!
Like it or loath it, the tuition fees stance is old news, and from my understanding has actually cost the taxpayer more than the students.. The price might be higher but the repayments are on such a sliding scale that the student (now I’m a profession) they hardly hit thier pay checks.
the merits of the policy have nothing to do with it, did they or did they not renege on a manifesto commitment ?
At this rate we'll have no government in place a week before Brexit and Her Maj will have to phone up Donald Tusk to ask him to hang on a minute while we get ourselves sorted...
I( am still awaiting the list of tory policies they stopped!
Guys - until they admit they were wrong then the lib dems remain toast. they will not be forgiven and Swinson has doubled down stating she is proud of what she did in coalition - thats 20 000 extra deaths, millions impoverished and selling of state assets cheap to tory spivs.
Also the Alistair Carmichael scandal has ruined them in Scotland
When you have honesty as your USP and lose that you have nothing left.
I'll make a bet here - next GE lib dems do not reach 50 seats and probably not 30 and remain the 4th party behind tory. labour and snp
Who mentioned the coalition ? It’s a matter of whether you can trust what politicians say. It proves the
LibdemsTorylight are no more trust worthy than the next party.
Despite that being nearly 10 years and 4 leaders (Clegg, Farron, Cable, Swinson) ago with 4 or their 12 MPs not even being in parliament during coalition and only 2 of the current 12 having been in the coalition cabinet (Davey, Cable)?
Sounds exactly like the same party to me, I mean, they're libdem MPs. Either they are cloned or they must have been forced to retrospectively agree with everything that the party did since it's formation to get on the voting slip..........................Surely they aren't allowed to have their own opinions or change the party's outlook and direction?
Unless you distrust all politicians, but only choose to vent against the Libdems (which is a bit like VanHelsing declaring to eradicate vampires and then going after Count Duckula).
Didn't a thingymajig get passed a few weeks ago that allows the commons to seize control of parliament for a day? My guess isthat's when the VONC will come, but we are relying on magic grandad for that to come to pass.
Ah – missed that! Doh!
Not your fault at all… lots of noise was made to hide the fact that the last chance was slipping past for a General Election to be forced through before we Leave. The rally to call for an election after the opposition let the chance pass being only one example (Mogg’s style guide was a more effective one).
So what happens now? If, because he knows he can’t get a No Deal Brexit budget passed, Johnson calls chicken, and asks for parliament to vote for calling a general election, what does everyone do? After years of calling for an election, Corbyn will be able to whip his party to support the principal… despite it meaning there is no way for any new government to step in and ask for an extension from the EU. We leave on No Deal, and whoever wins the election, has to pass emergency budgets and measures (including home rule in Northern Ireland). An election this autumn needs to be avoided… and this government needs to be removed… all without looking undemocratic to the voters… square that one!
Also the Alistair Carmichael scandal has ruined them in Scotland
The man shouldn’t be an MP. He’s a stain on Parliament.
But… back to the EU… and the train coming down the tunnel very, very soon… with Raab&co in charge of all the signals…
the merits of the policy have nothing to do with it, did they or did they not renege on a manifesto commitment ?
Yes as a minority partner in coalition.. They had to pick thier fights carefully.. This wasn't one of them. FFS change the record, the manifesto was based on if they had a majority government.
And come on, how many governments DID have a majority in the past and then scraped manifesto pledges? PMSL
I'm sure Boris will bluster his way past it...
And come on, how many governments DID have a majority in the past and then scraped manifesto pledges? PMSL
exactly the same as any other party, can't be believed.
I'm still awaiting the list of tory policies they stopped!
Here you go TJ, a few to have a look at:
Inheritance tax cuts for millionaires
Scrapping help with housing costs for young people
Weakening arrest warrants for people who have fled overseas
Firing workers at will, without any reasons given
Regional pay penalising public sector workers outside London and the South East
Privatising the motorways and key A-Roads
The Snoopers’ Charter
Bringing back the old O-level / CSE divide
Profit-making in state schools
Cutting the time childminders can give to each child
Cutting new nursery buildings
Stopping geography teachers telling children about how we can tackle climate change
Axing human rights from national curriculum
Ditching the Human Rights Act
Appointing Michael Howard as a European Union Commissioner
Watering down the ban on hunting by allowing 40 dogs to flush out a fox
Weakening the protections in the Equalities Act
Renewing Trident in this Parliament
Scrapping Natural England
Cutting investment in green energy
Nation-wide immigration checks on all new tenants and lodgers
And why shouldn't Swinson be proud of what they achieved in coalition? Compared to what has been done by the Tories since they had a majority I'd say the libdems did a pretty bang up job of reigning the selfish ****s in. It is a shame that they were blamed for everything that happened in the coalition and all people ever do is shout "tuition fees".
And I'm not even a past LibDem voter. Just a grown-up able to look beyond mudslinging and headlines and take a pragmatic view 😉
Time to start a separate Jo Swinson thread?
Yes thats right they did all those things. Enabled tax cuts for the richest, scrapped help for housing for young people etc.
Now lets see what they stopped 😉
20 000 extra deaths from austerity. the bedroom tax, huge cuts to benefits, selling the post office cheap, massive cuts in investment in green energy - all happened under the coalition.
they didn't make anything but the slightest difference - how often did they vote against the tories - not once!
It was a huge blunder to go into coalition - they should have done supply and confidence and retained some power. Instead they gave it all away
The best thing about blaming the LibDems for all that was bad, and letting the Conservatives take the credit for anything positive, is that lots of seats went from LibDem to Conservative, helping Cameron get a majority, giving the more extreme Eurosceptics in his party more sway…
Anyway, back to this year, and the train coming straight at us… what is genuinely left to stop it… that won’t result in the Conservatives claiming all other parties have performed an undemocratic coup, and then storming in with a majority at an election, with most Brexit Party supporters back on their side…?
Which is worse - being a selfish twerp or enabling selfish twerps?
If they had not gone into coalition we would not have had austerity and 20 000 people would not have died younger than they needed to.
Swinson is so riught wing 25 years ago she would have been in the tory party - look at her voting record. Lib dems could be a force for good but under Swinson they are tory lite. she is also a liar and a carpetbagger.
anyway - thread drift you are right - and WTF am I doing back on a politics thread!
I'm more concerned about now and the future than the past.
they are tory lite
It’s going to take a lot of “Tory lite” voters and politicians to stop Brexit, or even just delay it and stop a No Deal Brexit… the left can’t do it alone (and some aren’t even actively trying).
At least she can directly answer questions... That's more than labour or the tories can do.
Hey TJ,
So working with tories is always wrong and must never be forgotten.
Good to know. Does that make SNP supporters "black and yellow tories" to go with all of the other torytypes you've identified?
So who is pure enough to hold the saltire of loveliness (and scribble their political slogans on it like nationalist divs).
(Edit for clarity .. "working with tories" up there is a link to a story about the SNP "working with tories".
Ludicrous to blame Lib Dems for things that happened in the coalition government. It's not like Clegg had full power over everything is it?
there is a difference between working together in a council or parliament that is elected by propotional representation and going into formal coalition in a FPTP parliamnet.
The scottish electoral system is designed both at holyrood and in councils to ensure no one has overall majorities.
That arcticle is wrong - it was never a formal coalition. SNP made their case on any policy and challenged parliament to vote for it or against it. The tories engaged co operatlivly - as is the intent at holyrood. labour and lib dems just automatically opposed the SNP on anything
so - a totally different sort of situation and there was NO formal coalition
Molgripos - if he had done supply and confidence he would have had a veto over every policy. As it is he gave away all his power. they never once voted down a tory proposal
Who mentioned the coalition ? It’s a matter of whether you can trust what politicians say. It proves the Libdems Torylight are no more trust worthy than the next party.
Quite right too. I don't trust the Germans because of Hitler, or the Scandinavians because of the Vikings. Come to that, I don't trust anyone because of Original Sin.
the merits of the policy have nothing to do with it, did they or did they not renege on a manifesto commitment ?
Whereas it's a well documented fact that every other party in history has always fulfilled 100% of its manifesto commitments and not forgotten all about them as soon as the election is won.
"Yes but tuition fees" is simply an excuse to justify a party prejudice. Throughout history you won't find a single party that only ever did good things or only ever did bad things. You could equally well argue against Labour for the Iraq War or the Tories for removing free milk from schools. It's cherry-picking and it's lazy. Arguably it's even propaganda - how many other actions, good or bad, ever get mentioned? Why is it always tuition fees?
You want to criticise a party then go ahead, but criticise them for their actions now rather than for what an entirely different group of people did a decade or three ago. And lets face it, it's not like we're lacking for current material. If the Lib Dems are currently our greatest chance of stopping brexit, I don't care if ten years ago they were eating babies. I'd probably say the same of UKIP in the highly unlikely event that they did a sudden U-turn.
Their actions now? Moving the party further and further to the right so they occupy the ground the tories did 25 years ago? electing a liar and carpetbagger as their leader?
Look at her voting record!
At least she can directly answer questions… That’s more than labour or the tories can do.
Their actions now? Moving the party further and further to the right so they occupy the ground the tories did 25 years ago? electing a liar and carpetbagger as their leader?
Look at her voting record!
I'm not arguing for or against any party. It's hard to pick out many good guys in the HoC currently and certainly not collectively. Rather, every time I read "tuition fees" it makes me want to put a brick through the screen. We can't move forward if we're obsessing about the past.
Voting record aside, what are her policies now? Three and a half years ago Theresa May was a remain campaigner, that proved to be a reliable metric didn't it.