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john 0 IIRC its a list system where you rank in order of preference IIRC and I am sure someone will correct if I am wrong. If you don't put a prefernce against some candidates then they all get ranked last.
So you vote first preference for your choice of party, rank the rest of the pro remain parties. Don't rank the pro leave parties. thats the best anti brexit strategy I think
I’m debating the fact that someone specifically said something that is not true because we haven’t voted again yet.
On that basis anything I say that hasn't been voted on would be untrue. The European elctions should give some substance to the debate shortly. If any of you remainers vote either Labour or Conserative you are fools.
I had a some refreshing conversations walking across Spain recently with people from all over the world. Brexit was an excellent source of chuckles, laughs, sarcasm... . Oh how we laughed. In the few serious passages between jokes about cake two things stood out:
1/ Non-Brits are really impressed with how Tusk in particular is dealing with the situation, keeping all 27 on board and all doors open.
2/ How ridiculous British government and opposition are. The live stuff from the houses of parliament which looks like a barmy Harry Potter spoof to people with more dignified assemblies to govern them..
If nothing else Brexit is showing up the weaknesses of democracy UK style.
Rone - do you have a point to make?
Rone:
Which 5000 people have been surveyed now?
You have noticed polls do change daily and don’t ways reflect actual voting.
Also Rone:
I’m not debating how good a poll might be I’m debating the fact that someone specifically said something that is not true because we haven’t voted again yet.
It doesn’t matter what benchmark you use, or think may happen.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Chatting to German customers last week one made the comment that prior to this debacle there was a lot of talk in the media ( there ) about Europe and whether or not it was actually that good for Germany, and maybe they should think about making some changes - consider leaving themselves.
Apparently, having looked at the knots we're tying ourselves in, that talk has stopped.
Funny that.
So I may have joined the Jacob Ress Mogg supporters group on Facebook trolling people there is like shooting fish in a barrel - & they all live up to the Brexit voter cliches.
Wonder how long it'll be before I'm kicked out...
many senior Labour figures tell me they worry Seumas Milne and Jeremy Corbyn will somehow find a way to prevent the party adopting an unambiguous pledge to campaign for a referendum. As one senior Labour said to me, “it is a test of whether Jeremy really believes in party democracy”.
I think we all know the answer to that one
In other news, it seems like Chris Graylings no deal, no ferries fiasco keeps on giving. I wonder how many tens of millions of taxpayers money this next episode in the long-running farce is going to cost?
P&O sues over £33m Eurotunnel payout in Brexit ferry fiasco
I think we all know the answer to that one
I think you think you know the answer to that one...
What would be the options in this proposed referendum - Deal or No Deal? Or Remain too?
Surely the only question that can work/have any validity is "This deal, or Remain..."
I disagree, this deal has failed miserably at every turn, any deal will only represent the view of a small minority and be opposed by everyone else.
The only option now is a showdown between a no deal brexit and remain. That has to be clear though, no fantasies about easy deals or them needing us more than we need them. The brexit vote must be for no deal, not a million different fantasies of what brexit entails.
Yes but would Corbyn have to go for THE referendum or A referendum?
I agree that the fantasy Brexits should be put away and not see the light of day again: the only deal that actually exists is this crappy effort (accepting that it's not even a deal, really, just an agreement that allows us to move towards establishing the future relationship)
No deal is, I think, widely enough accepted to be a stupid idea that it shouldn't really feature in the question - perhaps that's just my view though...
Any referendum has to be binary or risk delivering a result which backs both Leave and Remain in one form or another. (not that a binary question solves this one entirely). This deal vs Remain seems to be the only one. No other deal has been negotiated with the EU, they will not accept some hopeful but unicorn-friendly Norway+++ vs Remain or Norway+++ vs No Deal vs This Deal vs Remain.
Remember the only thing that would allow us to hold a ref is the good graces of the 27. No time to get it done even before Halloween.
Does no deal mean no deals ever?
At some point we would have to agree something otherwise there would be no trade or travel to the mainland.
Would a ****wit bigot care to expand on this no deal?
Is the problem not that nobody quite knows what the extension was actually for?
The rest of the EU leaders think May is going beat MPs into line (or offer her still beating Heart on a silver platter) to somehow frig the agreed Deal through on the 50th attempt...
Half the "moderate" Brexit supporting MPs think they're going to get lots of amendments voted into the deal in parliament, and then the EU will somehow accept all those amendments and Brexit happens...
Remainers (both in and out of Parliament) are still daring to hope for a 2nd Referendum (and/or possibly a GE?) where 'Remain' is a choice...
Hardcore No-Deal Brexiteer and the ERG are just hoping for yet more shambles, May to finally thow in the towel, so their man can take Tory party over and we just drift into a No Deal Brexit Happens in October...
But ultimately everyone's predictions are equally worthless. All the different interested parties have are hopes and aspirations...
Two options:
Remain
Or
**** off back to Noddy Land
The only option now is a showdown between a no deal brexit and remain.
As I've said a number of times,
"No deal" is not an option. It's what happens when we run out of options. It's like being unsure whether you want to go out for dinner because no-one can agree on a restaurant, so asking your family whether they want to stay at home or not eat anything.
And in any case, it's another unicorn notion. I don't think anyone would want planes to be grounded post-brexit, for instance. Which is a highly unlikely scenario but for that not to happen we'd have to put some sort of agreement in place to replicate the Open Skies agreement. And what's another word for agreement? Anyone? Four letters, begins with D...?
The only sensible referendum, is so far as a ****ing referendum is sensible in the first place, is between what the government has come up with and changing our minds.
No deal is one thing parliament has actually reached a position on - they don't want it.
Yet it’s still the default position if we carry on with this endless faffing about
To prevent no deal we need to provide an alternative acceptable to the EU
There is an obvious one
It is looking (as @dannyh said) more like:
1. Remain
2. No idea, as nobody can agree on anything
One for Binners,
Time for Jeremy Torybyn to go.
Well i’m Truly shocked! It’s almost as if Corbyn’s a Brexiteer?
But that couldn’t be the case, surely?
I did notice on Twitter that the beardy messiah was safely back in his comfort zone, and onto his favourite topic. Never mind Brexit, let’s get those bus routes sorted....
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1121700759207317504?s=21
I'm sorry, but I'm refusing to comment until TJ has been along to interpret JCs statements for me.
I’ll send out the sign to raise his troops from their slumber, comrade. They’ll be here in no time to tell you to stop being horrid about Reg, as you’re aiding a right-wing conspiracy, orchestrated by the Daily Mail and Mossad
Oh dear...
So, shock horror.. Labour are just as knackered as the tories when it comes to brexit, that's the thing when you have no clear consensus in the electorate or in parliament, or in your party. corbyn might actually have to climb down the fence he's been sitting on. pretty soon, instead of talking about bus time tables at PMQ's.
Which side of the fence will he climb down? Nobody knows!
Meanwhile may is doing nothing, as that's her normal position.
Surely as the government has basically collapsed, and if Labour got in, they would also collapse, the only option is to retract article 50, and have a good hard think for a change.
if Labour got in
Not something anyone need worry about at the moment, or indeed for the foreseeable.
Which side of the fence will he climb down? Nobody knows!
I’m guessing he’ll continue to follow labour policy of a soft Brexit which includes a customs union and de facto single market membership, as has been the policy for some time now. The fact that some of you still refuse to acknowledge this is indicative more of your wilful ignorance than Corbyn’s indecision.
I’m guessing he’ll continue to follow labour policy of a soft Brexit which includes a customs union and de facto single market membership, as has been the policy for some time now. The fact that some of you still refuse to acknowledge this is indicative more of your wilful ignorance than Corbyn’s indecision.
Yep, 100%. Some still don't want to see it as they wouldn't be able to post up yet more (very) tired another Monty Python images.
And it doesn't matter because that will never get him or Labour elected.
Unicorns and rainbows is labour's position.
No deal is one thing parliament has actually reached a position on – they don’t want it.
Outside of this Remain echo chamber there are a worrying number of people who still, despite everything that's happened since the referendum, want a No Deal exit. If there is a No Deal/Remain vote I wouldn't put money on it being a clear win for Remain.
If there is a No Deal/Remain vote I wouldn’t put money on it being a clear win for Remain.
It won't be a clear win for remain. Not that many people have changed their mind but a swing of 2 million will happen for those that have changed their mind along with young new voters and dead old voters. I would predict about 52/48 for remain.
How long would a "no deal" mandate bind the government? Could it start making and signing agreements with the EU the day after we give up membership? A vote to not deal with the rest of the continent is meaningless nonsense. What happens if within a year of a vote for "no deal" we're in Schengen, like other European countries that are not EU members?
and de facto single market membership, as has been the policy for some time now
Until Corbyn&Co's (and May's, if this is going to happen by cross party agreement) red line on Freedom Of Movement of workers is dropped, this is not going to happen. It is a lie. It is a deceit. It is a unicorn.
Unicorns and rainbows is labour’s position.
Exactly. Jezza is being equally as dishonest as Boris Johnson ever was. He's peddling a 'cake and eat it' Brexiteer fantasy which will lead us to exactly to where we're now - to a no deal Brexit. Which is, of course, what he's wanted all along.
Marina Hyde is on the money, as ever, in this mornings Guardian
Brady, Batten and the bloody backstop (again): it’s still dark in the sunlit uplands
Attention next week seems likely to turn to Labour, who on Tuesday hold an emergency NEC meeting to decide official Labour policy for the European elections. The question of whether to campaign for a confirmatory referendum is believed to be incredibly finely balanced. On one side is the International Commission of Labour’s National Policy Forum, who according to Robert Peston agreed unanimously that they should, and which includes MPs and constituency representatives. Also on this side are all Labour MEPs, who voted unanimously this way on Wednesday, most of Labour’s big union supporters, and 71% of Labour’s members at last count. On the other side are – ah! – Len McCluskey’s Unite and the leader’s office. So yes, we must all wait and see how that one turns out.
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1122168861481164800?s=19
Latest European Parliament voting intention poll (survation) is interesting. Remain are getting trounced.
No idea how this will pan out but Labour neck and neck with Brexit party so despite all the incessant rubbish on here about Corbyn and his decisions - looks like a soft Brexit might just be the best approach otherwise it's over to the Brexit party.
Uniting remainers and leavers is a smart tactic.
It is just a poll though.
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1122177498568122370?s=19
Latest Westminster voting intention opens up lots of new debate too.
Doesn't look like a shift to remain to me.
What a hideous attempt to abuse statistics.
What a hideous attempt to abuse statistics.
Help me out here.
How so, sr009... ? Just looks like widely reported poll results to me. Quite a small sample but no-one is hiding that. Read and make of it what you will but I need the abuse pointing out to mpe as I can't see it. The problem is that there is no remain party as such in England, remainers continue to intend to vote for the traditional parties with leave policies, foolishly IMO.
Edit: Good God, I agree with Rone, someone whip me now !
Edit: Good God, I agree with Rone, someone whip me now !
That makes me feel lovely.