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what difference does it make to our daily lives whether we leave the EU or remain??
you read any of this thread at all?
I'll kick off with my freedom of movement, the way our industry trades across borders, the way we operate in a global sense and the health of our economy.
what difference does it make to our daily lives whether we leave the EU or remain??
Therein lies the reason why we shouldn't have plebiscites to solve complex issues...
Well, if we stay in nothing much will change. Which for most is a good thing. Free to travel, live & work in EU.
Leave? Which leave do you mean?
If we leave and stay in a customs union probably won't make much noticeable difference to the average person. The average person does not take advantage of freedom of movement and it will make no difference to them. It also won't make much of a difference to immigration either as most are here to work and as we still need the workforce they will continue to be allowed in to work.
There may be some economic impact but again, the average person deals with changes in economy every year.
what difference does it make to our daily lives whether we leave the EU or remain??
On a personal level, my old man who lives in Spain and has done for the past 15 years or so, has just successfully had a heart bypass and has ongoing treatment for other medical issues.
Leaving the EU is likely to see an end to reciprocal heath care, so for him that would mean taking out an incredibly expensive private health insurance plan, if he could even get insurance for pre existing conditions. Unlikely. Despite paying tax all his working life.
He'd be faced with two choices. Stay in Spain and die, or sell his house and move back to the UK which would probably kill him too due to the stress aggravating his condition.
There are hundreds more things that will affect our daily lives by leaving, but for me personally, the above is front and center.
the average person
The lives of many people will be utterly turned over, but yeah, "the average person" will be mostly just fine… so let's not worry about all the people this effects at all. Let's just shrug and look after number one.
The lives of many people will be utterly turned over, but yeah, “the average person” will be mostly just fine… so let’s not worry about all the people this effects at all. Let’s just shrug and look after number one.
How can the average person (i.e the type of person most of the population consists of) also be number one?
And whose life will be utterly turned over by a Brexit with customs union and in what way?
In this country "looking after number one", is a known idiom… it shouldn't need explaination.
And people have tried to explain in this thread how an end to FoM, an end to reciprocal rights, an end to Single Market in services, an end to Single Market in goods, an end to GFA provisions… all seriously effect the day to day lives of real people. You choose to ignore it all. I'm coming around to the idea that you're just astroturfing.
Sorry my bad.I meant
So if you vote for a pro EU MEP candidate or a pro Brexit MEP candidate for that matter, and they get elected , what difference does it make to our daily lives and on whether we leave the EU or remain??
Because the main parties (even if you don't vote for them) will take support for pro-Brexit parties as a (further) mandate for their own pro-Brexit policies.
Because the last general election and the referendum weren't? 🙂
We also need to convince MEPs and governments of other countries that as a country we will act in good faith, whether we remain for now, choose a staged exit asap, or crash out and look to form new arrangements from a position of no deal. Sending people to the European Parliament that openly want the EU destroyed won't help with any of that, in any of the possible scenarios.
Because the last general election and the referendum weren’t?
I would argue that, no, neither the last general election, or the 2016 referendum, were a mandate for the policies of either of the main two parties as regards Europe. People do argue that they were though, and a strong turn out for parties that are pro-Brexit will be used in the same way… even votes for those pro-Brexit parties that have a different policy agenda to either of the main parties. "85% of people voted for…" will ring out again… to endorse many different and contradictory policy positions.
Sounds perfectly reasonable kelvin but do Tusk,Barnier,Juncker etc ever negotiate or consult with anyone except the PM or her Brexit team on the UK side? Did any MEPs have any input or say in any of the Brextensions or was it just Macron and Merkel?
David Liddington has come out this morning saying that there is a ‘more that unites than divides’ the two main parties positions on Brexit.
As we’ve heard virtually nothing from labour, my worry is that Brexiteer Corbyn is currently orchestrating a massive stitch up to get Mays Deal through before the deadline, so they won’t have to contest EU elections where both the Tory’s and Labour are in line for a well-earned kicking!
Did any MEPs have any input or say in any of the Brextensions or was it just Macron and Merkel?
Extensions aren't voted on by MEPs. Any future deal will be though. But (all) the national governments are key here… and they will be watching to see what "the UK wants"… they keep repeatedly saying so. Voting in the European Elections will be taken as a test of public opinion by many key decision makers.
Extensions aren’t voted on by MEPs. Any future deal will be though.
Yes and that final vote to ratify the withdrawal could be interesting ,in theory at least.May and the EU team have agreed a deal and if it is ever agreed by the UK parliament then the EU parliament must agree it too.If the UK parliamentary shenaningans of late are anything to go by then staunch UK Brexiteers and ardent UK remainer MEPs could vote against it.I have absolutely no idea how the rest of the EU MEPs would vote.Do most just go with what their respective national governments advise ? Maybe there's some right wing Slovakian MEP holding out for a new EU funded logo a la DUP's "incentive"to get it over the line? 😉 Anyway the makeup of the next EU parliament is all in the mix so who knows.
orchestrating a massive stitch up
Or agree a sensible compromise which should have done from the start?
If the European Parliament elections take place, I'll vote for the most pro-EU party I can which probably means lib-dem in the North-West.
I voted labour in last GE because it always used to be 'natural' home and I was keen on stopping May.
Since that vote has been interpreted as being pro-Brexit (after all, it was in the manifesto...), I won't make that mistake again.
The average person does not take advantage of freedom of movement and it will make no difference to them
The "average person" goes on holiday to Spain or Greece, has a Polish builder, a French doctor, etc. (And that's ignoring families like mine: I have a Spanish wife, an Italian brother-in-law, etc.)
Labour and the Tory’s are going to get absolutely hammered in EU elections. Remainers (rightly) won’t vote for either of them, as they’re both pro brexit, but not pro-Brexit enough for the ‘just get on with it/leave means leave’ headbangers who will vote UKIP or the chain-smoking man-frogs latest fan club.
In any sensible world that should lead to a Labour Party reappraisal of its pro- Brexit position. Not under this Brexiteer ‘leadership’ though
Labour are in line for a well-earned kicking
Doing well in the majority of the GE polls currently.
Doesn't quite fit the doom and gloom around here for Lab does it?
The average person does not take advantage of freedom of movement and it will make no difference to them
Except the bits they don't see like getting the best people here to do medical research, or the B<W guys over to set up their factories here, or the Drs and Nurses who are there to treat them in hospital.
The “average person” goes on holiday to Spain or Greece, has a Polish builder, a French doctor, etc. (And that’s ignoring families like mine: I have a Spanish wife, an Italian brother-in-law, etc.)
Plus that freedom of movement helps drive our economy overall, so even if someone doesn't actively participate in FoM, they're still benefitting from every day
How much our society relies on FoM was perfectly demonstrated in LA in the states a few years back
The bus drivers went on strike
The white, comfortable middle class population collectively shrugged and said ‘so what? Who gets buses anyway?’
They soon found out that plenty of people did. The invisible people. The immigrants who cleaned their houses and offices, served them coffee, made their lunches, staffed the care Homes their parents were in and generally worked in all the jobs that they no longer wanted to do. Who,withno buses, could no longer get to work
If you end FoM to this country, the same thing would happen here.
The invisible people who do all the stuff we don’t want to any more would all go home
Then what?
@AD: +1, you saved me some typing.
They ignored the petition, if they won't let us have a referendum we'll use the EU election.
@AD +god-know-how-many
In a PR election the Labour Party are screwed, because the votes of all of us ‘natural’ labour voters who just won’t vote for a pro-Brexit Party will actually count for something
It’s ironic that we could be presently about to send our most pro-EU representation ever to Brussels
It might make even someone as pig-headedly anti-EU and obstinate as Corbyn something to think about, though I don’t hold up much hope of that.
binners
Subscriber
my worry is that Brexiteer Corbyn is currently orchestrating a massive stitch up to get Mays Deal through before the deadline,
Well by all means ignore all the other opportunities he's had to do that which he rejected.
It's just a 360 degree argument by the leavers, there's no reasoning behind it. It's just a load of flag waving idiots supporting the very thing they proport to hate.
The irony is off the scale.
It’s just a 360 degree argument by the leavers, there’s no reasoning behind it. It’s just a load of flag waving idiots supporting the very thing they proport to hate.
and what will enable them is apathy, apathy handed the referendum to them, it got us to that point. As they say, Vote Early, Vote Often put those crosses against the Pro EU ones and see what sort of headache it gives May and Corbyn
Bring on the headache. It's time the our politicians started earning their pay.
Meanwhile; NFarage has raised 750thousand pounds, before the party launch and before the website was ready, all in sub£500 donations all from PayPal accounts all to the brexit party account registered in Ann Arbor Michigan.
Entirely normal fundraising for a UK political party committed to extracting itself from a foreign electoral system that puppets to impose its rules
Problem is he is in full on Trump mode now, his followers lap it up though I do hope in the EU Elections a Tory/Ukip/Farage party split cuts them back a bit
Woohoo I have a a new political party to vote for that is Brexit Party.
It is the beginning of new political era with four main contenders. 😃
Conservative 🤔
New Labour 😑
The Independent Group 🤣
Brexit Party 👍
Brexit Party!! Like UKIP but for the people run by the establishment hiding it's cash overseas - Like I said his fans will just lap it up. I hope people are checking the laws on all of this as it plays out.
Nige's Brexit Party will no doubt pick up the 'respectable' leaver votes from UKIP now UKIP has gone fun on mentalist (sorry satirical)
Nige’s Brexit Party will no doubt pick up the ‘respectable’ leaver votes from UKIP now UKIP has gone fun on mentalist (sorry satirical)
>
Ahh, the famous Edinburgh defence🙄
The “average person” goes on holiday to Spain or Greece, has a Polish builder, a French doctor, etc. (And that’s ignoring families like mine: I have a Spanish wife, an Italian brother-in-law, etc.)
UK people won't be able to go on holiday to Spain anymore?
UK will not allow french doctors and polish builders to work in the UK?
Ending FoM doesn't mean we won't have immigration. As you know immigration is higher from non EU so clearly immigration from EU will continue. So what was the problem again?
Ending FoM doesn’t mean we won’t have immigration. As you know immigration is higher from non EU so clearly immigration from EU will continue. So what was the problem again?
Some of those people are below the income level, the head of research for ofsted got his application rejected a few weeks back.
Ending fom makes it harder for people to move across the continent, makes the UK less appealing to the people we desperately need in this country right now.
It's true ending fom won't stop immigration like the gammon want but it will hurt those who are getting on and keeping this country going.
Ending FoM obviously doesn't stop immigration… it does remove workers rights, give power to employers over employees, break up families, and trap UK citizens who don't have an "elite" status, whether that be from education, wealth, or both, within our national borders. That last point is less important while our economy is doing okay… but… the additional stinger is that ending FoM means we end up outside the Single Market (and it's harder to sell into markets in which your staff can't easily work, and from where it is difficult to recruit staff) which will hit our economy. So… ending FoM means a hit to our economy, and our workers being far less able to work else where if the hit turns out bad enough to seriously effect the sector they happen to work in. Auf wiedersehen pet.
I had the opportunity to go and work in Australia. Without a doubt the best thing that could have ever happened to me. It’s when I grew up and learnt to stand on my own 2 feet.
To deny our young people that experience on our doorstep without having to jump through hoops is a disgrace.
As a child of the early 70s being a racist prick was the default mode in my family and that was how I was raised . Even reverting to my flag waving, English mans home is his castle mode I can not see just one benefit of brexit. Only this country being reduced to the laughing stock of Europe again. Even if a beneficial brexit was possible , do we really have the people capable of delivering it? No we do not. All of our best players have ****ed off.
To you leavers who come on here with your Engerland swagger , I was more of a **** than you’ll ever be , so grow up ,think straight and just put your hate away.
Times have changed.
And whose life will be utterly turned over by a Brexit with customs union and in what way?
Mine potentially. For over 10 years i've exercised my right to freedom of movement and worked around Europe. I don't make much money but i get a fair quality of life and had some great experiences. However this does rely on freedom of movement, right to work in the EU, reciprocal health agreements and EU pension agreement. The exact status of all of these things following Brexit is unknown, maybe it will all be fine, maybe i'll be forced to move back to the UK, who knows but the whole thing does make me more than a little angry /shrug
UK people won’t be able to go on holiday to Spain anymore?
Have you visited Spain recently?
Have you visited the US recently?
Were those two processes comparable?
Have you visited Spain recently?
Have you visited the US recently?
Were those two processes comparable?
Different processes but so what. It is hardly difficult to go on holiday to US is it. Just a bit dramatic.
Mine potentially.
Okay so yours, potentially. Again, to the average person (i.e. the 90+%) it will make no difference.
Ask people in 5 years what has changed and what was the point of leaving the EU and most won't have even noticed other than being told we left. Obviously that goes the other way and is why we shouldn't be leaving in the first place.