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EU Referendum - are...
 

[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

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Simple answer as I understand it.....

1) We need an extension to avoid a No Deal situation still regardless of last night
2) Until we secure that it's assumed that a flounce could see No Deal being the only option available ie No Extension and no chance to do any of the options like PV.
3) Enough MP's still want to be seen to deliver some kind of Brexit.
4) Anything outside of the Bill as it stands presents another defeat to the PM and could finish her as it would require Cabinet to resign to support asking for an extension as it's not government policy - that is a nuclear option for them.

5/6/7) The Benn amendment to give Indicative votes to parliament could easily come back and pass after an extension is granted or be a condition of that, same with Peoples Votes - they could also be as a condition of accepting an extension.


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 7:00 pm
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condition

Stop hoping that the EU will force our MPs into acting… they won't get involved… they will just say… "the UK needs to decide what it wants."


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 7:01 pm
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Yes and no, there is process here and I can see the reasons for doing that.

She will try and bring her deal back having been told there is no other deal for the last time. She needs to find 150 votes for that to happen.


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 7:03 pm
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We need a vote to get rid of this table.. its a really crap table.
Im almost done with brexit and the utter shit show that it is.
I think i actually want a hard brexit now just to watch everything burn.


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 7:04 pm
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Stop hoping that the EU will force our MPs into acting… they won’t get involved… they will just say… “the UK needs to decide what it wants.”

Well the conditions could be time and making a decision. Ie do it or don't that isn't hope that is normal.


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 7:07 pm
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Parliament voted against voting on other options.

Parliament voted against a referendum.

Delay is for WA ratification only now.

The EU can see the same UK parliamentary feed that we can. Voting against options now, in the hope they might be made to happen by some outside actors is foolish and cowardly.

Tick. Tock.


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 7:10 pm
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Delay is for WA ratification only now.

It's fair to say opinions are divided 😉

I still expect a full on push for PV (at some point probably after) a rejection of her deal (next week)


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 7:14 pm
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Time is up.


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 7:15 pm
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so remainers still the minority then?


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 7:16 pm
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Time is up.

Are you ignoring all the other analysis? It's extension time she can't pass her deal.

so remainers still the minority then?

In what way? In the country? No, In parliament? Probably not.


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 7:18 pm
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It’s extension time she can’t pass her deal.

Parliament have voted against extending to seek other withdrawal deals. Parliament has voted against extending for a referendum. We will be extending to implement the current withdrawal arrangement (with minor external tweaks to get ERG/DUP onside to "save Brexit"). Or it's no deal, with no extension. EU countries have been actively preparing, and funding, smaller companies ready for no deal… they won't extend for no deal… they don't need to.


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 7:21 pm
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Oooo! Looks like there will be delay ... 😀


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 7:25 pm
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To add the BBC are reporting here that Cabinet Ministers are promising time to explore options if MV3 fails or if they don't put it up for a vote as they know it won't get through.

Getting the extension makes it easier to get rid of her deal.

And a majority of 210 to ask for an extension - that is fairly conclusive.
Corbyn announcing that they have been holding talks across the parties and then FFS starts on his own deal before PV.


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 7:26 pm
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In what way? In the country? No, In parliament? Probably not.

maybe theyre waiting for some one else then


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 7:33 pm
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An extension for what…?

What are "we" telling the EU we want an extension for…?


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 7:36 pm
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What are “we” telling the EU we want an extension for…?

Just tell EU as it is i.e. the UK wants delay to decide the best for them and EU just have to take it as it is. How hard can that be?

If they do not wish to give in to UK's demand they can always kick UK out. 😀


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 7:40 pm
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To sort our shit out......

At the moment I'd say you seem to be in the minority with your opinion there.
The EU can agree a time scale extension if required.
If her deal dies - very likely then she is done and it needs a full rethink as to how we get a deal through or give up.
The EU sounds amenable to this

After Matt Hancock just gloated that 2nd Ref/PV had been emphatically defeated I think it was completely right to hold it back, it's given the Brexitiers a sound bite they can use


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 7:41 pm
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An extension for what…?

What are “we” telling the EU we want an extension for…?

Corbyns up now... Wanting an 2ndRef lol


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 7:41 pm
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https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1106262851751161856

Better summary (and in the 2 following tweets)

Several cabinet ministers voted a different way to the Prime Minister, - Fox, Williamson and Barclay it's suggested, even tho the voting lists aren't out yet, AND loads of the whips office too!

And.... remember this is also doesn't change the law, it is still, although extremely unlikely, possible that we leave on time, deal or no deal

EU are making positive extension sounds about sorting out EU Election issues


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 7:44 pm
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I suspect the EU will agree to an extension, I would hope they try to insist on ref2. It gives May the chance to blame the EU for it (old habits and all that).

It’s in their interest and ours, and as much as Leave doesn’t like it, we’re still EU citizens and they’re looking after our interests as well as the rest of the EU.

Plus, if their intent is for us to stay, then they need to keep remain voters happy.


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 7:51 pm
 ctk
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Euro elections? Loads more UKIP MEPs if so.


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 7:57 pm
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Euro elections? Loads more UKIP MEPs if so.

Or options being discussed to simply extend the terms of the current MEP's - examples of when countries join mid term being used there.
Could also be a huge groundswell of remain MEP's elected, public opinion of course is never one sided


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 8:00 pm
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Remember the EU is exasperated by May and her crapness is also harming them, so they'd love to see her go down.


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 8:01 pm
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Slowly....slowly....one step at a time, but I think the adults are going to spike this Brexit nonsense once and for all (or at least a good ten years). Here’s hoping.


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 8:06 pm
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Slowly….slowly….one step at a time,

This does feel like the process, cross them off one at a time. Remove the choices we do not want and you are left with the final decision.


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 8:10 pm
 piha
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Not a good day for Remain today but there is still plenty to be positive about.

Although Corbyn is the biggest gift in Westminster for the tories and the ERG in particular. When will he start opposing this Gov?


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 8:13 pm
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My only conclusion after the last few days fiasco, and so many debates and votes going on and being rejected..

Is this deal that MayBot has outlined (and we still don’t know the details of ) must be pretty good and probably the best outcome.

🤷‍♂️

But what this fiasco has proven time and again, is this ... MPs are a bunch of self serving ignorant morons who are incapable of standing by any reasonable argument and principle.

Which makes me wonder why we have them, and what do they actually stand for, and what do they do all day?

I think I’m not alone in my thoughts, and on so many occasions they’ve all bee called to task in the public domain. For all to see and critique.


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 8:15 pm
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Anyone still Labouring under the hopelessly misguided, painfully naive misapprehension that the labour front bench isn’t enthusiasticly enabling Brexit?

They want Brexit as much as Rees Mogg.

Everyone can see this now. Unless you really are a total *ing idiot!

In this subject we might as well be a one-party state. We essentially are

Our ‘democracy’ is a joke. A total *ing sham. If you’re a labour Corbynite supporter you might as well be a member of the ERG


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 8:17 pm
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The whole thing was always a fait accompli

Along with Secret trade agreements. Whodathunk it.

^Sign if you wish.


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 8:42 pm
 dazh
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<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">If you’re a labour Corbynite supporter you might as well be a member of the ERG</span>

Binners have you ever considered applying to be a Daily Star leader writer?


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 8:48 pm
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MPs are a bunch of self serving ignorant morons

Most of them are remainers, yet they voted for A50. That's not self serving. Many probably have business interests that will be harmed by Brexit.

You really are hugely oversimplifying it so that you can have a rant to try and feel better. I'm just as gutted as you but ranting at MPs for not doing what you want is not productive.


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 8:51 pm
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When gove is PM


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 8:53 pm
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They voted for triggering article 50?

Both party leaders 3 line whipped their MPs for that

One of them wanted to do that the day after the referendum. Guess which one?

But apparently there are a bunch of deluded 6th form, placard-waving quarter-wits who are still deluding themselves he’s not pro-Brexit

If you’re going to defend Corbyn, allow me to introduce you to my Nigerian uncle who has some fantastic investment opportunities you’ll be happy to avail yourselves of. He make you very rich man


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 8:59 pm
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Which makes me wonder why we have them, and what do they actually stand for, and what do they do all day

I've thought for a long time that now we have regional gov in Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland that Westminster should be downgraded to English regional government and Europe can take over the larger important stuff 😁


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 9:02 pm
 DrJ
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In this subject we might as well be a one-party state. We essentially are

Ov course - 2 cheeks of the same arse. If voting changed anything they wouldn't let us do it!


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 9:08 pm
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Supporting Corbyn equals supporting Brexit. It doesn't matter hard or soft.
No FOM, border checks etc..


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 9:25 pm
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I’ve thought for a long time that now we have regional gov in Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland that Westminster should be downgraded to English regional government and Europe can take over the larger important stuff

3 years ago I would have argued vehemently argued against that. Now it looks very wise.


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 9:32 pm
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Ov course – 2 cheeks of the same arse

What an utterly stupid thing to say. There's more to politics than Brexit. This place is becoming binners' Sixth form.


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 9:53 pm
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so, why don’t we have electronic voting in Parliament. This pissing around with division lobbies seems to take 20min/shot.

I rather like the theatre of it. DIVISION.......


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 10:10 pm
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Anyway I came home after a couple of sherbets so may have misunderstood, but I'm pretty sure Labour abstained on the "no 2nd ref" vote then blow me, Corbyn stands up and announces we need a peoples vote. Was I mistaken?


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 10:14 pm
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Was I mistaken?

Back 2nd Ref tonight and it gets tied in with the extension and risk getting no extension. Tonight's aim was solely extension as without it none of the other things are possible.


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 10:17 pm
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It's like a 2 legged European football match. Just make sure you don't lose in the first leg, so you can then win it in the second. Get stuffed in the first leg and the second is unsalvageable.


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 10:23 pm
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We definitely want a second referendum, but not just now because... Well ... you know.... sfuff

But I’ll definitely call for one next couple of weeks. Honest.

He must think we’ve all just fallen out of a ****ing tree


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 10:23 pm
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any on following these videos?A Different Bias


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 10:26 pm
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The People's Vote lot (Alastair Campbell etc) advised to keep the votes seperate ie do not vote on 2nd ref today. Also if there had been a proper vote on a 2nd ref today and it had lost - which was likely - then it would have been more difficult to bring another vote later - Speaker might not select on the grounds that Parly had made a decision.

TIG knew all this and were posturing.

Before I set Binners off ranting at the wall again - whether Corbyn is sincere on 2nd ref of not doesn't mean the above is not true.

Although I'm not convinced it will happen - my view is the most likely scenario to get a second ref is the one I that I shared from the Guardian a couple of weeks ago - Labour agree May's deal on the basis it is put to a 2nd ref against a remain option.


 
Posted : 14/03/2019 10:32 pm
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