Yay! Donny is wading in again:
http://ultrasurfing.com/business-and-tech/trump-hails-unlimited-potential-of-britain-trade-deal/
The bit that I struggle to understand is that lots of these jokers keep saying that they cannot have another referendum because the people have already spoken 3 years ago and they cannot possibly have changed their minds in the intervening period .....despite that fact that one of the fundamental bedrock principles of our democracy is that we ask the people to vote in elections every 4 years, just in case they’ve changed their minds..
and just for whom would it be unlimited?
Although I would have thought getting a referendum kind of implied an extension at this point in time
It would do but there are various other options available as well. Ultimately they want to concentrate on shutting down no-deal exit as an option (at least in a couple of weeks time) and then go from there. Rather than go all out for victory and risk losing the lot.
perchy, it is utter grand mal cobblers
especially as it is now blindingly obviously to all but the most deliberately blind, that the thing what is being bandied about, ain't what was sold to everyone 3 years ago
"What could Corbyn actually do?"
How about this?
That's one very, very powerful letter. Incredible.
The bit that I struggle to understand is that lots of these jokers keep saying that they cannot have another referendum because the people have already spoken 3 years ago
Meanwhile, with no trace of irony, May's deal is heading back to the Commons for a third vote after being monumentally drubbed twice already.
The bit that I struggle to understand is that lots of these jokers
That bits easy to understand so long as you can accept they are hypocritical arseholes. They really arent confident of winning second time round, especially since there will be lots of scrutiny of advertising campaigns and where the money is coming from, so want to avoid the risk. It would be okay if they admitted to it but it is a tad vomit inducing when they talk about democracy being at risk because of it.
The bit that I struggle to understand is that lots of these jokers keep saying that they cannot have another referendum because the people have already spoken 3 years ago and they cannot possibly have changed their minds in the intervening period …..despite that fact that one of the fundamental bedrock principles of our democracy is that we ask the people to vote in elections every 4 years, just in case they’ve changed their minds..
There's not much to understand, they won a vote based on unachievable promises via an illegally funded campaign paid for by people who want to profit from our demise. Their only real objection is that they may lose a 2nd go now they can't lie as much, so they're all beating the same "will of the people" drum. Neither May or Corbyn will call them on it.
Hang on a minute? I’m having a Corbynite use Alastair Campbell as justification? **** me! Brexit just got even weirder 😀
You're usually quick to tell us how Campbell would handle things better. Yet you go quite quiet when it's pointed out that he agrees with Corbyn. You are so consumed by hatred that you've lost all objectivity.
Cougar, that's a great link.
Could we sum it up by saying "stop being an arse and try to make europe better for all of us".
But I think he'll continue to be an arse.
The bit that I struggle to understand is that lots of these jokers keep saying that they cannot have another referendum because the people have already spoken 3 years ago
It's simple really. If leavers genuinely believed that they'd win another referendum they'd be all over it like a tramp on chips demanding one. The fact that they aren't speaks volumes. Which kinda tells you all you need to know about the validity of the "will of the people" rhetoric.
Good to see the maybot had a cabinet meeting where a)she ranted against remainers who didnt dance to her tune (seems quiet on the ERG though) and b)complained about the frequency of leaks.
These and a couple of other things were quickly leaked.
Cougar, that’s a great link.
Isn't it, though.
"Viewed from here, Brexit has always appeared to be a right-wing project with a single aim – to harm working people and communities and place even more power in the hands of right wing elites.
Should Brexit go ahead, workers’ rights, environmental protections and public services would be at the mercy of a Conservative government. Given her track record, it would seem foolish to us for any Labour MP to trust the words of a Tory Prime Minister."
Just... wow.
I don’t know if you’ve noticed or not but we’ve a totally dysfunctional government
That's in large part thanks to the labour party strategy of patient and consistent opposition to the tories incompetence. Even despite the attempts of some labour MPs to derail this strategy with fantasies about 2nd votes or unilateral revocation, they've held firm to the policy they created at the party conference, and in terms of exposing the fraud of May's and the ERG's positions and (so far) preventing a hard brexit, it has been spectacularly successful.
The proof is in the pudding. We have a Prime Minister who has lost all authority, a government on the brink of collapse, no-deal rendered pretty much impossible, and the chances of an extremely soft brexit vastly improved. Given where we were a year ago when a hard brexit looked a cast-iron certainty I'd say the labour party have played a blinder.
Of course you lot won't agree with that, because you want the labour party to stop brexit. The problem with that is that is and never was their policy.
Of course you lot won’t agree with that, because you want the labour party to stop brexit. The problem with that is that is and never was their policy.
But it should have been.
How many percentage points does Labour have to trail behind the conservatives, after losing voters to the Greens and potentially Tig for you to get that?
Of course you lot won’t agree with that, because you want the labour party to stop brexit. The problem with that is that is and never was their policy.
From June 2016:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36506163
Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn says his passion for remaining in the EU rates at about "seven, or seven and a half" out of 10.
He explained that he wanted to be part of an EU that was about "social cohesion" and "human rights".
Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn says his passion for remaining in the EU rates at about “seven, or seven and a half” out of 10.
He explained that he wanted to be part of an EU that was about “social cohesion” and “human rights”.
That is a bare faced lie on the part of Corbyns. More like 3/10.
OOooo! Looks like Parliament is going for a vote to decide whether or not to hijack brexit. 😀
I hope the current political parties hijack the people's will then see the rise of new political parties.
New era new parties here we come. 😀
The political landscape is changing fast so if they make a wrong move all of them will suffer in the next GE.
That is a bare faced lie on the part of Corbyns. More like 3/10.
Could well be. He is a politician, after all. I just tripped over that video coincidentally about thirty seconds after reading the post I replied to.
so, why don't we have electronic voting in Parliament. This pissing around with division lobbies seems to take 20min/shot. Is it to give a chance for a gentle tap on the shoulder as people walk out?
OOooo! Looks like Parliament is going for a vote to decide whether or not to hijack brexit.
Jeez... are you back?
OOooo! Looks like Parliament is going for a vote to decide whether or not to hijack brexi
I think youll find the brexiteers already voted to do that to brexit already!
why don’t we have electronic voting in Parliament.
I would presume:
1) Probably believed to be too easy to tamper with.
2) Parliament is "we've always done it this way" personified.
If Facebook is to be believed, they're voting on the referendum right now and most of Labour are abstaining.
Random comment: "The people's vote campaign have advised abstaining tonight. Today is not the day to get a second. It's the day parliament seizes control from May. And lays the path to a second."
Slight hijack.
why don’t we have electronic voting in Parliament.
The winner will probably be accused of Russian collusion. 😀
so, why don’t we have electronic voting in Parliament. This pissing around with division lobbies seems to take 20min/shot. Is it to give a chance for a gentle tap on the shoulder as people walk out?
My thoughts exactly. Way too much pi**ing about with archaic tradition. But then you’ve got twerps like Rees-Mogg who campaigned for the parliamentary records to still be kept on velum, when the rest of the World has gone digital.
If Facebook is to be believed, they’re voting on the referendum right now and most of Labour are abstaining.
The indie are reporting that too... seems early..
Lib Dem MP Layla Moran tweets a picture of the empty yes lobby. It looks like its going to be big defeat without Labour.
European Socialists urge Corbyn to Back Remain and Reform?
Good luck with that!
They must have noted what a fine job he did last time out? The passion and enthusiasm for remain?
From the allotment.
And chose to ignore the decades of relentlessly slagging off the EU that preceded it, obviously ?
If anyone is banking on that clown then they’ll be sorely disappointed
Jill Rutter, of the Institute for Government, says that the Wollaston amendment calling for another referendum does not have much hope of passing as Labour have whipped to abstain.
She says it will be more interesting to find out which MPs defy the Labour whip. Many are worried that the idea could be exhausted too early.
Anand Menon, of UK in a Changing Europe, says that it could mean the prime minister might now turn around and say that a new referendum has been defeated in the Commons.
From the BBC, it's a very fine line of an argument both ways and really does come from process rather than anything else - even if it was voted through it could be over ruled by the subsequent votes. Those against really need to get united.
New era new parties here we come.
You want to be careful what you’re wishing for😉
1) Probably believed to be too easy to tamper with
I would think it would be almost impossible to tamper with simply by having a screen with a list of who voted each way that members could look at and check. The numbers are well known and as far as I can see the voting patterns are already recorded
You want to be careful what you’re wish for😉
Let the nature takes its course whatever will be will be. 😀
Right, so the 2nd referendum is off the table, why would the EU grant an extension to A50?
Right, so the 2nd referendum is off the table, why would the EU grant an extension to A50?
It certainly is not, it's also why they didn't want to ask that question today. With Labour abstaining it was not testing the motion.
This is why this is way more complex and nuanced than headlines.
Amendment I is the key one which would allow Parliament to explore it's options freely rather than being directed by May
why would the EU grant an extension to A50?
It isnt off the table. It would only have been if the ban it option was passed. For example you have the Benn amendment which would include it in the list of options and the Labour one which is vaguer but allows for it.
The problem with that is that is and never was their policy.
Agreed. Shame that they pretended to their members that a public confirmation vs Remain vote was also policy. And are still playing that game at times. Untrustworthy. It's turning off those who want Brexit as well. They don't look like a government in waiting.
Referendum with two options remain and remain.
The LP was unelectable pre Corbyn.
some of this stuff is soooooo close. 311-314. I can't imagine having to navigate your way through this
Referendum with two options remain and remain.
Nah, that won't work - 2 Options
1) Remain and apologies to Brexiters that they had their chance but couldn't do it
2) Remain and deport the ****ers
Whenever they have to run off to the lobbies to vote on an amendment I can't help but imagine Mike Reid stood at the door......
Bollocks, that was a big one to loose 312-314
Next Up
E. Labour amendment
Led by Jeremy Corbyn, this notes the rejection by parliament of May’s Brexit plan, and of no deal, and says the government should “provide parliamentary time for this house to find a majority for a different approach”.
J. Bryant amendment
Notes that the guide to parliamentary procedure, Erskine May, states a motion or an amendment which is the same, in substance, as a question which has been decided in the affirmative or negative during the current session may not be brought forward again during that session. If this amendment was passed it could give the Speaker the power to block another vote on May’s deal as it has been voted down twice by parliament already.
I've just spent a good 10 minutes on the BBC website looking at the voting.
My mind has snapped.
What.
The.
Fruit.
Is.
Happening?
Nothing of consequence really. Lots of voting against voting. Time wasting. No referendum. No voting on alternative options. So we end up voting for an extension purely to implement May's Withdrawl Agreement, as the only way to avoid leaving without a deal this month. She'll be happy. The trap works.