OK ta. I'll pour another glass.
Although I’m not convinced it will happen – my view is the most likely scenario to get a second ref is the one I that I shared from the Guardian a couple of weeks ago – Labour agree May’s deal on the basis it is put to a 2nd ref against a remain option.
I'd have to say that is the sweet spot for me too, but it needs to be done properly - IE have the time to do it and count the result before we implement it - you can't do any of that without an extension.
Shouting at the telly and screaming at the internet won't help this or make it happen better. This takes both an appreciation of the process and the conflicts going on. Corbyn is not helping this process at all, but he is also working through a party who hate him and a very conflicted electorate who are divided with the prospect of fighting an election very soon.
It's coming out that May has been rejecting any prospect of talking or discussing with anyone else for the entire process - yes she plans to run the clock out to win a prize but the rules of law and parliament is doing it's job slowly but to the letter.
Then maybe we can a truthful campaign about what is now the likely outcome if we leave
as opposed to BJ et al making stuff up on the spur of the moment
Having watched him being interviewed just after the results came out I am convinced even he did not forsee a brexit win. He was probably sound bited up with' well the people have spoken and we must accept that', instead he stood around looking dumstruck
Still wouldnt like to bet on the outcome of re-ref though. Never underestimate the group power of stupid.
Back 2nd Ref tonight and it gets tied in with the extension and risk getting no extension.
So, now May gets to ask for the extension she needs, to do with as she pleases, without parliament instructing her how to use it. Trying to tie it to a second ref was a wise move… if you actually want one.
Also if there had been a proper vote on a 2nd ref today and it had lost
There was. It did.
making stuff up
Jobs first Brexit.
Still wouldnt like to bet on the outcome of re-ref though.
Narrow win for the Withdrawl Agreement as it stands has to be the most likely result. Still… WA vs Remain kills no deal, and after that we get what we vote for… and only voting Remain stops the mess from consuming whoever is in government for the next decade… and slowly more people are starting to realise that, so you never know…
There was. It did.
It wasnt one with whipped support from the opposition. If it was and it had lost it would have been far harder to reintroduce it. Although admittedly with maybots third time lucky this is really a meaningful vote it would be harder to argue against it.
There is a reason why the pro vote campaign groups were opposed to it. You really should be questioning why the political grandstanders were wanting this gamble. Its almost like they are just wanting the paperwork in their favour so they can disassociate themselves from the mess. Hence why the funny tinge party left it to the last minute to rebel.
Because a delay in Leaving needs to BE FOR SOMETHING… and the unamended bill leaves what that should be up to the government. Hence the amendments. Labour wanted a "different Brexit" amendment, rather than a second referendum amendment, because… … …
and the unamended bill leaves that up to the government.
Hence the support for the Benn amendment. Unfortunately some labour brexiteers screwed that one up (as well as the official Labour one).
because
of reasons that are shared by many as opposed to those political grandstanding.
The Benn amendment would have been the most useful of the lot in many ways.
Shame individual tories didnt go for it. Still I guess they can rely on the useful idiots to rant about Labour.
It's been explained til they're blue in the face, even the PV campaign didn't want the amendment at that time, yet you lot are still queueing up to shout and yell. FFS you lot are being as idiotic as the Brexiteers.
Still I guess they can rely on the useful idiots to rant about Labour.
FFS you lot are being as idiotic as the Brexiteers.
I suppose, at least once we've left, we don't have to listen this… being insulted for pointing out the blindingly obvious… Corbyn, Milne & Murray ARE BREXITIERS.
FFS you lot are being as idiotic as the Brexiteers.
I am curious whether there will be any ranting about those frontbenchers forced to resign due to not abstaining in the referendum amendment.
Heroes one and all rebelling against brexit.
Well this is the farce, May can't force anyone to resign as she'll lose her majority.
Corbyn can't force anyone to resign as he's already lost a few due to attrition so is in the same boat really.
Parliamentary votes seem to swing on whipped abstentions from lab or con or votes from the smaller parties.
The UK political system is in complete paralysis.
We still pretending Jezza isn’t a rabid Brexiteer?
I wonder if the hopelessly gullible will be held as culpable as the cynical?
Carry on....
We still pretending Jezza isn’t a rabid Brexiteer?
Still pretending May is a remainer??
Swings roundabouts and anything else you want binners.
Explain how a political idea that splits out political norms and old positions can be delivered by a party.
We still pretending Jezza isn’t a rabid Brexiteer?
Are you still pretending that he isn't doing exactly what the People's Vote wanted?
Brexiteers are the minority, by a considerable distance, but they’re leading both parties by the nose
The party system is ****ed but a tiny minority, who have colonised their parties, arevleading us to oblivion courtesy of both far right and far left zealots who are two cheeks of the same arse, both equally as detached from reality
Brexiteers are the minority, by a considerable distance, but they’re leading both parties by the nose
If you voted for Labour at the last general election then you voted for Brexit.
Look, we get it, we won't vote Labour again. Thanks.
Anyway.... let’s just take a moment to remind ourselves why we are where we are...
More like…
&
Anyway…. let’s just take a moment to remind ourselves why we are where we are…
Here is one
Too simplistic as always binners
Corbyn can’t force anyone to resign
Aside from his office is reported to have asked four shadow ministers to resign for ignoring the abstain whip for the second referendum. Clear proof he is a brexiteer forcing them to resign.
Look, we get it, we won’t vote Labour again. Thanks.
Then why did you vote for them last time? Did you think their manifesto was a lie?
@binners.. We get you don't like magic grandpa, I don't either but a 2ndRef vote wouldn't have passed as it was too premature. It needs to go to the wire to become a choice of second ref or a retraction of article 50.
May needs to lose her deal first before the we can look at other options.
That's the reason labour whipped abstention.
But I do agree corbyn is a useless tosser.
But this isn't on him on this occasion.
Clear proof he is a brexiteer forcing them to resign.
Nah, just him demonstrating that he's got far more control over his own party than May
Tho I'm loving Brexit Secretary #3 arguing for Mays deal for the government, then minutes later voting against May's deal, !
Why did I vote for them last time?
Given that the choice was ‘do you want your huge shit sandwich on brown or white bread?
Maybe in the wildly optimistic expectation that the Labour Party wouldn’t be fully complicit in a far right coup, due to their leader being a liar, a coward and a fraud
If he’s not a far right sleeper cell, he might as well be
Then why did you vote for them last time?
They had the best manifesto, apart from Brexit, and their candidate was the best available in my seat, and was best placed to unseat our Tory MP, who is a waste of space.
Did you think their manifesto was a lie?
I thought Labour policy on Brexit would be moved by Labour members to supporting a referendum once it was clear what a mess Brexit would become. Mostly because I know a lot of Labour members, and they expected that as well. Some even think this has happened.
May needs to lose her deal first before the we can look at other options.
How many times must she lose? When will these other options be looked at?
Aside from his office is reported to have asked four shadow ministers to resign for ignoring the abstain whip for the second referendum. Clear proof he is a brexiteer forcing them to resign.
*asked* to resign.. FML, just be decisive and sack them.. Oh wait..
May needs to lose her deal first before the we can look at other options.
How many times must she lose? When will these other options be looked at?
Well as you didn't read the answers the last time....
Who can you vote for this time....there's nobody
Who can you vote for this time….there’s nobody
One liners only??
Lib Dem, Independent, Stand on your own? Green? Plenty of choices
How many times must she lose? When will these other options be looked at?
Third time lucky I guess.. It's abuse of process plain and simple. May's deal has already been kicked out twice.
Speaker JB could still block it as such.
The express valiantly soldiers on, even the mail has given in....
"servants"?
WTF?
"kelvin
Narrow win for the Withdrawl Agreement as it stands has to be the most likely result."
Really? Why? Polling suggests otherwise, the first referendum suggests otherwise.
“servants”?
WTF?
It's called the express, it's read by people who in olden days would have been servants, but now have no idea how to live their lives in freedom.
Jesus tee eff christ.
If he’s not a far right sleeper cell, he might as well be
Could you give it a ****ing rest for, I dunno, an hour or so? I think your position has been noted.
How many people actually read the Daily Express every day?
12? And they’re probably delivered to retirement homes
Really? Why?
Many will vote for any Brexit. Some will vote for the current Withdrawl Arrangement, as it is a plan for the next few years at least, which doesn't scare them the way that a "bank cheque" vote in 2016 did. Yes, many new voters, and a few that voted Leave last time, will now vote to stop Brexit, but I still think the numbers are there for the WA to win. Sadly. It should still happen though… a public vote to accept the WA vs stop Brexit. Hopefully things will happen on the run up to the vote that results in the result going the other way. But the key thing is… it kills no deal Brexit, which we are currently on a path towards.
How many people actually read the Daily Express every day?
12? And they’re probably delivered to retirement homes
I was in Wigan today, the Costa had about 10 copies hung up ready for the local pensioners to read, less copies of the mail now. It's still read
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_Kingdom_by_circulation
Beats the FT and Guardian
kelvin
Many will vote for any Brexit.
Sure, but it doesn't just need many- it needs very nearly every Leave voter to vote for it. Or it needs an equal number of changers/frustrated nonvoters to swing over from Remain. I can't see either option happening, especially after the last months of the usual suspects loudly declaring that May's deal is variously terrible, a betrayal, and at the brexiest end, "not even brexit" (ps, FFS).
Said it before (sorry, I'm turning into Binners) but there's never been anything like a majority for any one brexit, never mind any one realistic brexit.
But the Withdrawl Agreement still allows multiple contradictory Brexit end games… it's just about getting out, with transition and backstop plans in place while we work on whatever the hell we're going to replace EU membership with. That is why it could still win against "stop Brexit" in a referendum this year.