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@igm deportations - my understanding is it depends if they can claim a human rights reason to stay, like family member (eg wife or child). I believe our courts said that doesn't cou t by ECJ overuled us. In many respects these are petty issues but it shows the naivety and arrogance of the EU that they oush these things through and provoke such a strong responce.
@tmh btw was told this week that Lloyds are looking at booking EU business through Malta. Brass plate office.
my understanding is it depends if they can claim a human rights reason to stay, like family member (eg wife or child). I believe our courts said that doesn't cou t by ECJ overuled us.
Isn't that a matter for the [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Court_of_Human_Rights ]European Court of Human Rights[/url]?
That's not the same as the [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Court_of_Justice ]European Court of Justice[/url] is it?
Presumably we remain signed up the convention on Human Rights and will still be bound by the European Court of Human Rights in that respect?
If not then consider me alarmed.
But the mouth foamers like Jambalya/Ninfan etc want to repeal the Human Rights Act as well.
Do we?
Pretty sure jamba wants to (from [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/what-is-so-wrong-with-human-rights ]previous threads[/url]) but I don't think the bill discussed in this article does that.
Not this bill but the proposed UK/English Bill of Rights will do.
@rosscore interesting read, Big Short I thought was pretty good and IMO the European Soverien Debt crises will be far worse
Not this bill but the proposed UK/English Bill of Rights will do.
I remain hopeful that Bill will be defeated when it is debated, though I can see them trying to just sweep it along with the all rest as [i]"This is what the British people voted for"[/i]
ECJ ruling applies to [b]automatic[/b] expulsion of non-EU criminals if they are the sole carer of a child who has EU citizenship. It's a bit more nuanced than the "dey tuk ar laws" headlines.
In terms of deporting EU nationals it doesn't apply, the whole thing is to do with the right of the child, as an EU citizen, to stay in the EU.
Well I tried to read more of the ids short story but all I could see in mental images was a stupid old British racist shouting slowly so the foreign shop keeper could understand and pointing out but I'm British like it actually meant something.
On European courts they tended to fund as expected with the law, sometimes the UK wasn't very clever at reading before signing.
Edit: GrahamS, secondary legislation - good spot. That feels somewhat undemocratic, ministers appointed not elected (elected as MPs yes but not ministers) making changes to the law, probably in cahoots with some unelected civil servants. If Europeans tried that Brexiteers would be foaming (even more ) at the mouth.
This.
Also, for clarity, everything mentioned yesterday would kick in 2 years after article 50 is triggered (at the earliest), not on the day it is triggered.
Mrs and I just back from an evening out with Liam Fox and friends.
[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5129/29432771864_44f1d89fa1_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5129/29432771864_44f1d89fa1_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/LQSDDS ]Evening out with a Brexiteer[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/82598458@N05/ ]jamesanderson2010[/url], on Flickr
To paraphrase Dr Fox-wit, this lot are going to sacrifice a generation at the altar of Brexit.
I see Sajid Javid said this week that European tradesmen would be able to ply their trade after Brexit. How are they going to police that when the government has already admitted they have no idea how many EU citizens work and live in the UK? Another 12 years and £830 million on e-Borders 2.0?
So the behind-the-scenes stuff in full swing now
May to invoke A50 in 1Q17
All to end up pretty much were we started by 2020?
You have to love these guys and girls
It really seems to stink. They are forgetting that 48% of people want to stay.
It's hardly a green light ,full steam ahead result is it?
Now that people realise their holidays will cost more ,the nasty foreigners aren't being sent home and hospitals will still be shut would they'd still vote the same way?
They should have held the referendum in November as the **** wits would be more bothered about voting for someone we've never heard of having a dance off.
Graham, thanks for that Oxford Uni Conference piece. Half way throigh the 63 pages. Fair to say I am enjoying it greatly as it says most of the things I have been saying and presents a thoughful and considered assestment (opinion) of the issues and way forward.
Two particularly interesting points so far ((obvious when you think of it)
WTO tariffs will not be a significant issue for exporters as fall in currency is equal to / greater than tariff to be applied, true for cars in particular. A biritish produced car is cheaper post EU exit with wto tariff applied than it was tariff free nefore June.
The EU won't be able to negotiate due to dogs breakfast mix of 27 member states, commission and dominant players all having different views - as such he simple choice of full access (or very newr to) and none is likely to be the only choice they are capable of handling.
Good job that non-tariff barriers are unimportant!
Never realised it was all so simple!
WTO tariffs will not be a significant issue for exporters as fall in currency is equal to / greater than tariff to be applied, true for cars in particular. A biritish produced car is cheaper post EU exit with wto tariff applied than it was tariff free nefore June.
Sometime i just laugh out loud at your posts
Any opinion on where this leaves as us you kept telling us it was more important for the EU as we run a trade deficit
Given we import more than we export , and we just added a tariff to that and it was now more expensive anyway , due to falling pound, that overall it might actually be bad
Still you focus on the one positive in a mire of shit if you must.
If Dr Fox ever needs a speech writer then he could do worse than call on you as no one dies delusional on here as well as you
The EU won't be able to negotiate due to dogs breakfast mix of 27 member states, commission and dominant players all having different views - as such he simple choice of full access (or very newr to) and none is likely to be the only choice they are capable of handling.
Well that does pose a problem doesn't it as a majority need to agree to the article 50 deal don't they...
If they don't no matter how well we negotiate we get nothing.
dont worry it wont come to that as we wont negotiate well 😉
You can't divorce tariffs from quotas. Tariffs are the 'easy' bit, which is why I suppose everyone just ignores everything else involved when crapping on about how we have already won the trade battle.
Tariffs are the 'easy' bit
Indeed
Junky we are all here for entertainment, so laughing out loud is a good thing. I certainky get a good laugh from time to time from stuff posted on here. Why not take time and read the piece at least some of it ?
Mike yes that's their argument a binary choice is all EU can handle. I am personally good with either option, full access with no budget / freedom of movement or quick hard exit. Phaffing around in the middle for years is a waste of time and effort, time and effort that would be better spent globally not least as the EU is Daffy Ducked economically
TMH they make the other point that there are no tariffs on services, look at the amount we outsource to India / Phillipines as an EU member.
as the EU is Daffy Ducked economically
The EU and UK cycles are v similar in trend and absolute numbers - just look at real GDP charts.
I have no wish for the EU to have problems - they are our largest partners in trade. We should be looking for a harmonious relationship with them.
Anyone actually WON any contracts against EU competitors since brexit? Seems like lots of stories of companies losing out. Wonder if there are any other stories?
Molgrips stop with the negative talk, Jamby just told us it would all be awesome. Just like IDS (or is it IBS) fairy story.
£ to loose more value tomorrow ?
Excellent..... Jamby will be pleased
And in breaking news the UK have picked their lead negotiater.
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Was watching the Tory speeches in the pub while having Sunday lunch.
The comically bad subtitles provided some well needed comic relief.
My favourite being David Davis saying he was dilated by some Remain voters 😆
I nearly choked on my roast beef 😀
positives, if we can get the pound down a bit more, 20-30% then we can overcome all the tariff issues and with a bit of effort make UK labour costs competitive with India. It will of course solve immigration because no one would come here as the wages would be crap. But would mean we could get the UK textile industry back on its feet, maybe even get Pegatron or someone to set up a factory?
Obvious downsides, why would anyone from abroad work in the NHS etc. but i am sure we can train up the 5% unemployed to be brain surgeons with that £350M we get back from the EU. So that means no unemployed. Everyones a winner.
Blimey looks like May is giving in to Fox and Davies. Hard Brexit all the way
Even Hitchins in the Torygraph, reckons were screwed (also called out Fox for his delusional speech the other day)
Even worse was gonna book a foreign holiday yesterday but lost my card and had to cancel I wont get a new one to Tuesday earliest, pounds gonna tank again tomorrow 🙁
Kimbers, not sure it will tank tomorrow, come March though! If there is a coherent plan it will be ok, if not then god help us!
I don't think it will tank - it might dip....& that dip will be passed on to the man in the street.
Big biz is relatively resilient & won't feel the pain so.
It's just you, me & your neighbours who are going to feel the squeeze.
So, thanks to Brexit we are all going to be hurt whereas the elite & big biz will just carry on.
So much for sticking two fingers to the man.....you've made us weaker & them stronger.
You dumb ass hats....
(Rant over...for now!)
what about , scotland , wales nd NI ?
she clearly said they ll have no voice in the decisions .
what about , scotland , wales nd NI ?
she clearly said they ll have no voice in the decisions .
well they have also said parliament has no say either, so much for a parliamentary democracy.
I don't think it will tank - it might dip....& that dip will be passed on to the man in the street.
It already is. I held off changing most of my pricing after the vote, but I've now had to put up prices on bikes I import. And I've just sent a big Euro payment this evening instead of doing it during working hours as usual, in case the pound drops even further after this.
what about , scotland , wales nd NI ?
she clearly said they ll have no voice in the decisions .
This is, as usual, about the whole UK being twisted to the ideals of the right-wing lunatic fringe. UKIP is in power, effectively. May said that she didn't want this country torn apart by nationalists, which would be ironically funny if it wasn't so stupidly depressing.
Where is the bloody opposition when its needed? Bloody Corbyn has been a disgrace in all this. If he actually stood up for Remain we wouldn't be in this mess.
****ing useless.
Where is the bloody opposition when its needed? Bloody Corbyn has been a disgrace in all this. If he actually stood up for Remain we wouldn't be in this mess.
**** useless.
Yes, Labour's self-destruction means not only do we have Brexit, we'll have a Tory government for at least another 9 years. Even now, Labour is playing the "we must make the best of it" line instead of standing up and arguing that the whole thing was a really, really bad idea and it'd be perfectly reasonable for the government to ignore the referendum result.
That's what's so bizarre. There's nothing legally binding about the referendum. It was a glorified opinion poll. Carrying on with it when they don't have to is just setting fire to the country because they like to watch things burn.
Jezza's going solo - the only guy arguing against the single market but pro freedom of movement. Perhaps it's an age thing? Hard to understand otherwise.
It really seems to stink. They are forgetting that 48% of people want to stay.
It's hardly a green light ,full steam ahead result is it?
Now that people realise their holidays will cost more ,the nasty foreigners aren't being sent home and hospitals will still be shut would they'd still vote the same way?
They should have held the referendum in November as the **** wits would be more bothered about voting for someone we've never heard of having a dance off.
+1
It's the fact that both sides spouted so much shite and lies that irks me and the fact that all that whole fiasco has been neatly brushed under the carpet and it's all steam ahead.
A lot of jobs for the boys on the horizon and the b list MPs get centre stage with the keys to the Kingdom and the ability to tweak the law carte Blanche, they've definitely taken control 🙂
I think Corbyn's problem (in this context) is that he isn't actually pro-eu anyway. But let's be clear where the blame lies. He isn't in power, hasn't set any govt policies, all he did was stand for leader of the labour party and got far more votes than any other candidate, twice. It's the tories who are actually building the bonfire.
So, which party leader was it that campaigned for Remain but really wanted to Leave?
So, which party leader was it that campaigned for Remain but really wanted to Leave?
Go on, then tell us. I May be able to guess with a clue...
all of them ?
mrmo - Membermaybe even get Pegatron or someone to set up a factory?
He's too busy having an internal civil war with the europhile Starscream. FOOLS! THERE IS NO ESCAPE!
Corbyn may have been next to useless during the ref
But
The whole thing was a giant miscalculation by Cameron and co, to placate his own bunch of xenophobes that have been festering away ever since farige failed to become a Tory MP. Gove and Johnson led the out campaign, inspite of their actual beliefs they saw a career advancement opportunity.
Tory Austerity fuelled popular resentment of immigrants as it stripped public services to the bone and the meeja reminded them to blame the EU.
We've now got Hasbeen MPs suddenly catapulted to the most important ministerial positions in a generation, who are now suffering delusions of grandeur at b the worst possible moment.
Cameron drives country off a cliff. Everyone blames Corbyn. The majority of Labour voters voted to remain- just not enough to outweigh the primarily Tory and UKIP voters who voted to Leave. 63% of Labour voters voted remain, according to Ashcroft- 70% Lib Dem (which admittedly, is 2 people) and 64% SNP- but where are the people claiming it's Nicola Sturgeon's fault? Not even THM thinks that. Or whoever the Lib Dem leader is?
Blaming Labour for Brexit for failing to stop the Tories, is like blaming firemen when your house burns down after you set it on fire. Why on earth would you let the real architects off the hook?
kimbers - Member
The whole thing was a giant miscalculation by Cameron and co, ...
Interesting view that but history will treat Cameron well. I sense a sympathetic secret admirer of the ex-PM there.
Hypothetically speaking ...
So the question is if you could turn back the clock would all of you vote for Tories so that the PM would be confident not to call for a referendum? I mean all of you to vote Tories.
Watched May's speech with Brexit FIL 🙁 and was surprised at how forceful May was, but it was this...
We've now got Hasbeen MPs suddenly catapulted to the most important ministerial positions in a generation, who are now suffering delusions of grandeur at b the worst possible moment
..that was truly sickening. Thank goodness we flicked over to the footie instead.
but where are the people claiming it's Nicola Sturgeon's fault? Not even THM thinks that.
No, just laughing at how silly her immediate response about joining the Euro was. Jezza is clearly out of his depth on this issue, but Nicola is into total la, la land. If there is one thing that is obvious, the € is the last thing ANYONE needs. But in her rush to react she just showed how desperate she is and how her understanding of basic economics is totally flawed. You guys really do deserve better...but you know that.
teamhurtmore - MemberNo, just laughing at how silly her immediate response about joining the Euro was
Citation needed...
teamhurtmore - Member
But in her rush to react she just showed how desperate she is and how her understanding of basic economics is totally flawed. You guys really do deserve better...but you know that.
She is riding the wind of success of her majority so decide to strike it home while she is still hot (hot in the sense of popular).
FFS, no wonder the SNP get away with it!?!?
Too much to hope for a response I suppose.
Well folks i am afraid you are all going to have to do as Mrs May says for the next few years. An analysis of the opposition tends to indicate 9 years of Right wing rule is the minimum we must endure regardless of the procrastination of the SNP Labour UKIP Lib Dems so suck it up folks and crack on -
I must admit the shite put out by the three musketeers (Boris DD and Liam Fox trot) is staggeringly stupid and everytime someone says "well BMW need us more than we need them" I just wince! As I am sure the BMW buying (leasing) customer base will happily stump up another £50 a month to keep the "status symbol" no large UK based manufacturers will shut up shop and run to France but they will cease to invest long term - it's just simple maths. We will agree a trade deal that allows free movement of people as this is a very low price to pay for retaining wealth - so Brexiteers we keep the laws, free movement and no one gets sent home, not quite what most were voting for.
Fiscal interests will always win regardless of politics (or referendums)
Oh and by the way the bits that can be changed (legally) Grammar schools, European Human Rights etc will simply isolate even further the poor in the UK
Obviously given your response to the last time. What is the point?
But try google(hint try The Herald) oh and your econs dept, they don't bite honestly
Wonder how Renault Nissan will respond?
and to be blunt, most people who can afford a new car will still be able to afford a new car, it might cost a bit more and worst case a few options get dropped.
For those at the bottom it is not going to go well, as always.
molgrips - Member
Anyone actually WON any contracts against EU competitors since brexit? Seems like lots of stories of companies losing out. Wonder if there are any other stories?
A guy I'm acquainted with up Stratford way has secured what could be a quite lucrative distribution of German produced food products, not sure exactly what it is, he buys and sells starch, they decided they now need to appoint distributors for the future and he got the deal, so it'll mean more jobs in his outfit.
Oh THM, you used to be worth arguing with. If you can't or won't back up a comment, why make it? It just makes you look silly. Your original comment is so vague, how on earth can anyone else google it even if they want to? "Sturgeon said a thing! Google for it! Whatever it was"
Oh THM, you used to be worth arguing with. If you can't or won't back up a comment, why make it? It just makes you look silly.
#jambalite
Why does everything that deviate from your views (assume you are on the left) is Right wing?oldmanmtb - Member
An analysis of the opposition tends to indicate 9 years of Right wing rule ...
Shouldn't there be say Centre Left, Centre, Centre Right then Right?
My view is that PM May is the right person to lead and will be a good non-needy PM that does not give running commentaries.
mrmo - Member
Wonder how Renault Nissan will respond?
They are foolish to get involve in politics. They should simply concentrate on their business. If they leave I can bet that Nissan will struggle to sell any in the UK unless they give massive discount.
So did you NW but this recent blinkered approach makes it a waste of time. If you want to deny what Sturgeon said, then so be it. The truth is blindingly obvious. The SNP rely on this type of behaviour.
Don't give up the day job Doc.
she said she wont give any running commentaries .
cchris2lou - Member
she said she wont give any running commentaries .
I already like her even more with her no nonsense approach.
She gets my vote.
teamhurtmore - MemberIf you want to deny what Sturgeon said, then so be it.
I'm still waiting for you to tell me what comment you're referring to 🙄
"Sturgeon said something!"
"Which thing?"
"Google it!"
"Which thing in particular would you like me to google?"
"If you want to deny what Sturgeon said, then so be it"
"TBH I'd just like to know what you're talking about"
"Ask someone else!"
I feel like I'm in a Beckett play
The vague (sic) point (you even highlighted it 😯 )
No, just laughing at how silly her immediate response about joining the Euro was.
The quote
NICOLA Sturgeon has opened the door to the possibility of Scotland adopting the euro if a new independence referendum is triggered by Thursday's EU vote.
and a link to a nat source
So who looks "silly" with comments about being vague and no links? Ok not a silly as Doc's comments but not far away.
Two days running too. The board will need constant wiping at this rate. Alternatively you can up your game. Your choice....but cmon if you want to push a point make an effort to make it a half-reasonable one
only a few voted for her . not the whole country .
They are foolish to get involve in politics. They should simply concentrate on their business.
They are.
They gave fair warning before the vote that Brexit might mean it is more economical for them to manufacturer elsewhere. So now Brexit is going ahead and it looks like Nissan are scaling back the Sunderland plant as they said they would.
and they wont be the only one .
Unless May and co screw up workers rights so much that manufacturing in the Uk becomes good again .
Oh I see, so it's all some mad THM overreaction to when she said that SNP policy [i]isn't[/i] to join the euro, but it's something that could be discussed? And from that you're trying to imply that she's pro-euro? I don't think I'd have ever guessed that tbh but OK.
<edit>
I just noticed the other thing... "So who looks "silly" with comments about being vague and no links?". You do realise you clarified your post and added the link [i]after[/i] I said that, right? Actually, after I had to ask you several times to do just that? Forget I said that, I'm sure you do but want to imply otherwise.
She is very lucky to have voters with such quality of thought - it must feel like Xmas every day. What would Jezza give for the same.
edit for edit - have plenty of water before you go to bed, it should help 😉
GrahamS - Member
They gave fair warning before the vote that Brexit might mean it is more economical for them to manufacturer elsewhere. So now Brexit is going ahead and it looks like Nissan are scaling back the Sunderland plant as they said they would.
More economical? Or more like a brand on the way out asking for a favour? They better go now so everything can start with a clean slate without having to listen to a company getting clever in politics. Then we can see how long Nissan as a brand will survive.
I am not bothered who vote for her. I vote for her.cchris2lou - Member
only a few voted for her . not the whole country .
They better go now so everything can start with a clean slate without having to listen to a company getting clever in politics. Then we can see how long Nissan as a brand will survive.
Tr
Lol... Business goes where it works, governments try and bribe businesses to stay. Large employers are linked to the politics of an area like it or not. The good ones (Nissan for instance) probably cared a lot about the area and the workforce but could see like every other rational person what brexit would mean for their business.
But none of this matters to you chewkw does it? You couldn't give a shit about the workers in Sunderland or anywhere else. Another ideology driven muppet.
Thought i would do a bit of an internet trawl of the foreign press, and it seems no one really gives a $hit, a few papers don't even mention TM's speech some place it way down the list of news stories. [s]Bulgaria[/s] Hungary seems the popular story.
Mind you one paper was leading on cape verde islands!
Not Hungary?
mikewsmith - Member
Tr
Lol... Business goes where it works, governments try and bribe businesses to stay. Large employers are linked to the politics of an area like it or not. The good ones (Nissan for instance) probably cared a lot about the area and the workforce but could see like every other rational person what brexit would mean for their business.
LOL @ "... cared a lot ..."? That's new. So organisation/company cares for the people now.
Very simple until they are not making profit they are just being political. Profit might dip but that does not mean the company is not doing well. Just the stakeholders complaining about less return on investment.
How come all of a sudden you have forgotten how Sunderland voted?But none of this matters to you chewkw does it? You couldn't give a shit about the workers in Sunderland or anywhere else. Another ideology driven muppet.
mrmo - Member
Thought i would do a bit of an internet trawl of the foreign press, and it seems no one really gives a $hit, a few papers don't even mention TM's speech some place it way down the list of news stories. Bulgaria seems the popular story.
Good the less the media mention PM May the better.
I think the referendum in Hungary should be much more interesting.
The leave vote conned them, they are now going to find out what that means. Unfortunately for an area that has suffered so much it's going to be another set back.
Very simple until they make a lost i.e. no profit, they are just being political
Remind us again which bit of government you work for?
You can't operate a business like that, if you invest millions today then make a loss you could forsee tomorrow your an idiot.
Chewkw I am politically a centrist socialist I suppose? And have little time for extreme right or left as in practical terms the extremes always abuse one section of society or another - I believe that politics is an extension of society and that includes business (Nissan for examle) that supports the well being of a community by offering well paid and secure employment - for that community to vote for the potential degradation of that commitment is odd and indicates that some element of disinformation has occurred, I would bet my house on Sunderland Ship Builders NOT coming back to life post Brexit to pick up the slack. As the old saying goes you don't realise what you have until it's gone. It may take 10 years for the full impact of withdrawl by this type of business but it will happen as the bottom line is key to most organisations.