Sunderland and voting. The people I know that work at Nissan (4), they don't live in Sunderland . The way I understood it is that the ones who work on the lines were more likely to vote leave whereas management/office workers voted remain.
Kin Brexit.
Dear Jim. Could you please fix it for me to lose my job and the area I live in to become a post-apocalyptic wasteland consisting only of betting shops?
TBH Binners, that’s what we’ve got already. The minor shopping streets in the suburbs surrounding the city centre and former mining villages are pretty desolate holes.
But it’s quite an assumption to believe that a Tory party, free from the shackles of the EU won’t make things infinitely worse?
Those *s really just don’t care.
It’s incredible that all this misery is being laid at the door of the EU instead of the total hoof*ing thunder-****s who bought about this shambles
But it’s quite an assumption to believe that a Tory party, free from the shackles of the EU won’t make things infinitely worse?
In their view it is up to the market to decide and if the market thinks the best thing is betting shops and pound shops then that is what you will get.
Those ****s really just don’t care.
People that believe in and pretend that a free market economy will do good and look after the interests of people clearly don't care because it is never going to do that and they know it.
What I don't understand is that there's all this uproar about the backstop from both sides (despite being a remainer I think it's a shit idea to need it and be locked in for possibly eternity without a say), yet the Irish deputy PM has already stated that if a no deal brexit emerges then Ireland and the UK would need to come up with a strategy that would mean they honour the GFA and a hard border doesn't exist.
So if thats the case Simon, how do you suggest that happoens and why the **** do you need it in the withdrawel agreement when it appears to be a requirement regardless of what happens.
Brexit is Britain’s Fyre Festival
I watched that Netflix documentary last night and was gonna post that here, not surprised someone’s mentioned it on titter.
Promised everything then one picture of a soggy toasted chees sandwich brought it down.
Only difference is that the perpetrator of that got 6 years in prison.
I think the led by donkeys are currently doing the best job of reiterating what was promised and what we seem to be getting.
hoof*ing thunder-*s
Assuming that the edit stars refer to female genitalia, Insult Of The Week award, I think.
Well done, sir! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
The farce is that our lot are the people who negotiated and and came up with the backstop. It’s just another way they kept the plates spinning waiting for the unicorns to turn up in spitfires.
You need it in the withdrawal agreement because our lot are more than willing to want to let the problem drop in someone else’s lap and the eu aren’t having that, we broke it we own it.
So if thats the case Simon, how do you suggest that happoens and why the **** do you need it in the withdrawel agreement when it appears to be a requirement regardless of what happens.
because the UK gov worked with the EU, came up with an agreement that they signed off. both sides were happy with the idea of having a backstop that will never be used. That the future relationship would negate any need.
Now with all the kicking and screaming it is clear why a backstop is needed, a clear lack of good faith on the UK side to honour the GFA.
The most frustrating part in this utter fiasco is that the perpetrators will never be held to account. How ever bad it gets it will still be spun that it is Europe’s fault or the remainders fault for not supporting it.
I am genuinely fearful for the future of this country.
Now with all the kicking and screaming it is clear why a backstop is needed, a clear lack of good faith on the UK side to honour the GFA.
Not at all, no one in the goverment/parliament are suggesting putting up any hard borders of any kind. In fact it's only the EU that has stated that a physical border would be needed (not Ireland I might add) in the event of a no deal.
Regardless of what happens if we're bound to no hard border and rightly so as per GFA, why does there need to be this potential to be tied to EU rules under current WA.
Ireland wont put up a border and nor would the UK, whoever does first will be blamed for breaking the GFA.
Come no deal (hopefully not) 'alternative arrangements' will be thought up to ensure movement and trade can carry on, so if they can work that under a no-deal why can't it be applied as part of the WA eh.
Come no deal (hopefully not) ‘alternative arrangements’ will be thought up to ensure movement and trade can carry on, so if they can work that under a no-deal why can’t it be applied as part of the WA eh.
You see that "if" up there? That's why not. "if" those arrangements existed they would be in the withdrawal agreement. They don't, so they aren't.
Come no deal (hopefully not) ‘alternative arrangements’ will be thought up to ensure movement and trade can carry on
You can see in the thread people talking about Unicorns and fairies, right? You do know that the backstop was a red line insisted on by the UK govt against the wishes of the EU who gave way as May's team convinced them that all other alternative plans that divided the trade area* of the UK were unworkable?
*A border in the Irish sea, for instance. Remember that?
I watched that Netflix documentary last night and was gonna post that here, not surprised someone’s mentioned it on titter.
Promised everything then one picture of a soggy toasted chees sandwich brought it down.
Only difference is that the perpetrator of that got 6 years in prison.
I think the led by donkeys are currently doing the best job of reiterating what was promised and what we seem to be getting.
And presently Theresa is probably gearing up to do what's necessary to secure a few tankers of Evian water.
^^^^^Shudder
The Irish border is like that picture of a gate with no fence either side,without the gate.
The EU doesn’t want us to drive lorry loads of chlorinated chicken over it for a fast buck, which chokes their chicken market.
No one likes someone else choking their chicken 🙂
It’s the requirement of harmonisation of rules for trading otherwise it’s like one side of a team playing to footy rules and the other to rugby rules.
Not at all, no one in the goverment/parliament are suggesting putting up any hard borders of any kind. In fact it’s only the EU that has stated that a physical border would be needed (not Ireland I might add) in the event of a no deal.
If we leave without a deal we become a Third Country and have to trade under WTO which requires us to manage our borders, otherwise we breach the terms. It's the UK that's leaving therefore its our obligation - it's precisely this lack of thinking that got us into this stinking mess and people like you swallowing the cr@p in the media that's putting the blame with with the EU - it's our $hit so own it!
Here's what I reckon the plan is (I know, I know, there almost certainly isn't a plan but humour me).
The DUP are not going to support any deal. Full stop. The government knows this and is planning on throwing them under the bus. They are currently negotiating a price with various whores in the labour party. Who knows, maybe they are planning on using the money that was supposed to go to the DUP. Or just go back to the magic money tree, it doesn't really matter.
They are going to put the border in the Irish Sea and push the deal through at the last minute with the support of 10 or so Labour whores.
Edit: Just had an even more crazy thought. Could they persuade Sinn Fein to vote for the deal if it meant Northern Ireland would be more closely aligned with the Rebublic than the UK?
if that transpired those labour whores would also have to support the government in a confidence vote. It's ironic that had labour supported mays deal they would have the election they say they want.
They are going to put the border in the Irish Sea and push the deal through at the last minute with the support of 10 or so Labour whores.
Given stories in the press this morning about renewed plans for a labour split involving the usual anti-Corbyn suspects I suspect there is some truth in this. They'd need a lot more than 10 whores though. There are around 100 ultras in the tory party who will not accept putting the border in the Irish Sea.
no one in the goverment/parliament are suggesting putting up any hard borders of any kind
Parliamentarians need to enact national laws and elect to sign treaties, they can't just run international borders on political declarations.
Ronnie Campbell was the MP on channel 4 news. A total ****ing idiot!
I grew up in an ex-mining village 5 miles from Blyth. I can assure you he's not an idiot, and he's simply representing the views of his constituents. He's massively popular up there because he's never forgotten his roots or stopped fighting for the people who live there. If you want to understand brexit and why northern voters voted for it you could do a lot worse than listen to the likes of Campbell.
At the biggest trade show of the year.
Loads of empty spaces and all the reps are saying how many shops they've lost this year.
A toal air of doom and gloom.
Has a country ever commited suicide before?
It does seem like JC is losing MPs from both ends at the moment.
Here's yet another thought. If the border was put in the Irish Sea and concessions were made on worker's rights, could he end up supporting the deal?
Has a country ever commited suicide before?
China in the 15th Century, when they banned ocean going boats.
It didn't work out too well - we inflicted the Opium wars on them and stole Shanghai and Hong Kong. They're still annoyed with us over that.
It probably seemed like a good idea at the time though.
China in the 15th Century, when they banned ocean going boats.
Wait a minute Oldnpastit, you’re saying that an economically prosperous nation turned its back on overseas trade opportunities due to a fear of foreign influences affecting what they saw as “their culture”? The result of this being that, unable to influence foreign powers on an equal basis, they ended up getting screwed over?
That’s an interesting intellectual point but whet relevance does it have to current events?
Could they persuade Sinn Fein to vote for the deal if it meant Northern Ireland would be more closely aligned with the Rebublic than the UK?
A spokesperson on Marr today clarified the Sinn Fein position and the reason why they will not take their seats in Westminster.
She explained that, as far as they are concerned, Westminster exists to further a British agenda and they have no part of this, being Irish.
They already occupy, in their own perception, a united Ireland and explained that, having MP’s in both Parliaments of Ireland, they are dealing with Irish matters in what they regard as Ireland...
ie: There is the Republic of Ireland and there is Northern Ireland, but it’s all Ireland.
If you want to understand brexit and why northern voters voted for it you could do a lot worse than listen to the likes of Campbell.
True, but that doesn't mean he's not an idiot. His constituents may dream of a future full of unicorns but it's dishonest to pretend that that's an option.
A spokesperson on Marr today clarified the Sinn Fein position and the reason why they will not take their seats in Westminster.
I've seen and heard a lot of Irish politicians over the last few weeks and it always makes me wonder why we have to be governed by squabbling children and not grown-ups like the Irish!
His constituents may dream of a future full of unicorns but it’s dishonest to pretend that that’s an option.
What unicorns would they be? Decent wages? Secure jobs? A compassionate benefits system? Affordable housing? A working NHS? The ability for their kids to do better than they did? This is the problem. The more the 'idiots' are told that what they want is impossible by the patronising middle classes who already have these things, the more they will vote against them. People in Blyth really couldn't give a toss if brexit results in rich southerners being poorer and losing their right to retire to the Dordogne. In fact they will welcome it with open arms.
Those of you celebrating the Nissan decision as payback for the people who voted for brexit, I can assure you the opposite is even more true by several orders of magnitude.
What unicorns would they be? Decent wages? Secure jobs? A compassionate benefits system? Affordable housing? A working NHS? The ability for their kids to do better than they did? This is the problem. The more the ‘idiots’ are told that what they want is impossible by the patronising middle classes who already have these things, the more they will vote against them. People in Blyth really couldn’t give a toss if brexit results in rich southerners being poorer and losing their right to retire to the Dordogne. In fact they will welcome it with open arms.
And there is the rub. What person would not want all of those things not just for themselves but also for the rest of the population too? To have all of those things you need a thriving economy. An economy with excellent employment prospects and plentiful income from taxation to provide health, education and benefit system. Economists almost universally tell us that economy is more likely inside the EU.
To reject that advise for some sort of 'take back control'/racist agenda is quite frankly the work of simple minded knuckle draggers.
Those of you celebrating the Nissan decision as payback for the people who voted for brexit, I can assure you the opposite is even more true by several orders of magnitude.
It is possible think ‘serves you ****ing right’ without celebrating.
It is possible think ‘serves you **** right’ without celebrating.
By this I mean if someone had burned down my house and I was there in court to see them banged up I wouldn’t be celebrating at the spectacle.
What unicorns would they be? Decent wages? Secure jobs? A compassionate benefits system? Affordable housing? A working NHS? The ability for their kids to do better than they did? This is the problem. The more the ‘idiots’ are told that what they want is impossible by the patronising middle classes who already have these things, the more they will vote against them. People in Blyth really couldn’t give a toss if brexit results in rich southerners being poorer and losing their right to retire to the Dordogne. In fact they will welcome it with open arms.
Those of you celebrating the Nissan decision as payback for the people who voted for brexit, I can assure you the opposite is even more true by several orders of magnitude.
They aren't though, in fact rich southerners are going to make a tidy profit from currency trading etc. It really will be people in Blyth who get shafted.
What unicorns would they be? Decent wages? Secure jobs? A compassionate benefits system? Affordable housing? A working NHS? The ability for their kids to do better than they did?
I would assume that in this case, “unicorns” refers to what it has always referred to in this debate, that is - impossible solutions like non-existent technology to control trade at an open border, European Union withdrawal negotiators caving in to British demands without having any reason so to do, sudden instant trade deals made with Australia and the like.
I think what you are describing, is outcomes that would be a result of the deployment of said unicorn claims that the disgruntled population local to you, have swallowed as being workable tools to enable said desired outcomes.
This goes a long way to supporting the idea that they are, to a large extent not only easily led, but stupidly so.
What unicorns would they be? Decent wages? Secure jobs? A compassionate benefits system? Affordable housing? A working NHS? The ability for their kids to do better than they did? This is the problem.
Of course people are justified in wanting all those things, but they have nothing to do with the EU, and an honest MP would have explained that, rather than spouting populist rhetoric about "threatening the EU with No Deal"..
The more the ‘idiots’ are told that what they want is impossible by the patronising middle classes who already have these things, the more they will vote against them.
Bit of a straw man there. I don't think anyone (here) is saying that they shouldn't have those things. In fact "patronising middle class" folk like me vote consistently to pay more tax in the hope that they get them. But the road to this nirvana does not lie through Brexit.
Stockpiling Prosecco, Barolo (Engligh wine you must be joking), French cheeses. Gone for an African nanny instead. Oh and I bought the new BM early just in case, not one of those frightful plastic Korean or Chinese monstrosities.
The first holibobs of the year will be Bora Bora.
Riksbar
Wait a minute Oldnpastit, you’re saying that an economically prosperous nation turned its back on overseas trade opportunities due to a fear of foreign influences affecting what they saw as “their culture”?
IIRC the celestial palace was struck by lightning and this was seen as god's wrath. In our case, we were struck by Boris Johnson, which is a much clearer indication of god's wrath
The more the ‘idiots’ are told that what they want is impossible by the patronising middle classes who already have these things, the more they will vote against them.
Yes, by all means vote against the rich posh Tories, but the referendum wasn't about that. The poor of the North East were repeatedly told this, but they let the economic status of those telling them this blind them to the value of their arguments.
Of course it was also rich posh Tories telling them to vote leave too, and they chose which group to believe. Don't let them off the hook too much.
China in the 15th Century, when they banned ocean going boats.
It didn’t work out too well – we inflicted the Opium wars on them and stole Shanghai and Hong Kong. They’re still annoyed with us over that.
It probably seemed like a good idea at the time though.
The crusades will be back on April 1st no joke
They aren’t though, in fact rich southerners are going to make a tidy profit from currency trading etc. It really will be people in Blyth who get shafted.
I could almost understand it if anyone from Sunderland, Grimby or Stoke had come up with anything true to justify why Brexit would make anything better for them. Or even that it would hurt those in the Home Counties more than it would hurt them.
But it won’t. Brexit is an abomination.
Don’t let them off the hook too much.
It's not a case of defending them, just an explanation. In places like Blyth there is an inbuilt hatred of the middle class and pretty much everything they represent. When I go back I'm accused of being 'posh', and have even been called a traitor for forgetting my roots. Trying to appeal to logic and explain that they'll be worse off after brexit because of deregulation and lower investment is pointless, because as far as they're concerned, things like the EU, and the wider political system which supports it, only benefit the southern middle classes. And the more the middle classes tell them they're wrong, or insult them with names like gammons, the more they'll react against it.
If we leave without a deal we become a Third Country and have to trade under WTO
... if we're lucky. There's a popular notion that we "just fall back" to WTO and unfortunately that's a very very long way from the reality.
