And the more the middle classes tell them they’re wrong, or insult them with names like gammons, the more they’ll react against it.
As I said... stupid.
Trying to appeal to logic and explain that they’ll be worse off after brexit because of deregulation and lower investment is pointless, because as far as they’re concerned, things like the EU, and the wider political system which supports only benefit the southern middle classes
& in no way is this stupidity?
See above.
In places like Blyth there is an inbuilt hatred of the middle class and pretty much everything they represent.
Hang on - in another thread I was told how evil I am for being concerned about moving to the neighbourhood of Blyth. Is confused 🙁
They’re stupid...
If you go to some of the grimmer places oop north, the ones left to rot after de-industrialisation, you can absolutely understand the ‘well, we’ve got nothing to lose’ attitude and the belief that it couldn’t get any worse.
Unfortunately, they’re wrong on both counts.
They’re about to find out exactly what they’ve got to lose (Whitehall won’t be replacing that EU funding, the NHS etc, etc) and just how much worse things can get (when Nissan and everyone else ups sticks for mainland Europe)
They’re stupid…
Who are more stupid? The people who took the chance they were given to derail the political and economic system which has made them poorer and powerless, or the people who naively and arrogantly gave them the opportunity to do so because they assumed they'd be stupid enough to do what they were told once again?
...because they aren't derailing the political and economic system that made them poorer & powerless.. they are voting to allow that that system to screw them over even further.
What unicorns would they be? Decent wages? Secure jobs? A compassionate benefits system? Affordable housing? A working NHS?
All of which are indeed unicorns under the tories post Brexit.
they are voting to allow that that system to screw them over even further.
Whilst I agree that's a likely outcome, it's very far from a fact, and is highly debatable. No one knows how this will end up, but we do know what happens if everything carries on as before. There's already talk of a renewed focus on regional investment, whatever the outcome of May's deal. That wouldn't have happened without the brexit vote. Similarly the imbalance between the regions and the South East, and rich and poor are now high on the agenda after being highlighted by brexit. Again we don't know if this will result in any real change but at least it's being talked about. Nothing changes if people simply do nothing, and whether we agree with it or not, the brexit vote was a massive opportunity for the people to change things, and they chose to do so.
Nothing changes if people simply do nothing, and whether we agree with it or not, the brexit vote was a massive opportunity for the people to change things for the worse and they chose to do so.
Fixed that, for... you know...
There’s already talk of a renewed focus on regional investment, whatever the outcome of May’s deal. That wouldn’t have happened without the brexit vote.
You can't tell me you believe in either of those claims. The Tory party does not invest in the NE, a referendum vote will make no difference to that.
There's way too many people on here hanging to the idea that things have been so great under the EU. For a lot of us we got our economic destruction already, before the vote.
We have been enjoying the race to the bottom for a while. It happened under the EU and under the Tories, so why should our 'stupid' areas be convinced that being in the EU was anything but a smooth varnish on the top of a rusty chassis?
Anyway it's done.
Any Government worth its salt would have planned for no-deal and started to look at ways to rebuild our country.
I'm sorry that's down to the Tories.
Anyway it’s done.
It is? Cool.
So what is the deal?
But the things they voted to change were and are within the remit of the UK government.
Leaving Europe isn't going to suddenly make the disaster capitalists and champagne socialists in the UK act any more in these peoples interests. Quite the opposite, it gives them more freedom to persue thier own agendas.
What deal? We're going out.
That ship has sailed.
Leaving Europe isn’t going to suddenly make the disaster capitalists and champagne socialists in the UK act any more in these peoples interests. Quite the opposite, it gives them more freedom to persue thier own agendas.
No of course it isn't. But it didn't really anyway. The Philip Greens do okay either side of this fence.
But that's because I would swing against the ideology that's been with us for several decades.
But that’s because I would swing against the ideology that’s been with us for several decades.
Which ideology is that? Uncontrolled capitalism? Which has a lot more to do with our domestic politics than it does the EU. The far right who have pushed the leave agenda have one goal - deregulation. Now who will that benefit and to whose cost?
What deal? We’re going out.
That ship has sailed.
I wouldn't count on it, there are whisperings of "a" customs union being put into the deal to negate the need for a backstop. May is obviously attempting to unite parliament.
Bit of a straw man there. I don’t think anyone (here) is saying that they shouldn’t have those things. In fact “patronising middle class” folk like me vote consistently to pay more tax in the hope that they get them. But the road to this nirvana does not lie through Brexit.
"It has often been said that power corrupts. But it is perhaps equally important to realize that weakness, too, corrupts. Power corrupts the few, while weakness corrupts the many. Hatred, malice, rudeness, intolerance, and suspicion are the faults of weakness. The resentment of the weak does not spring from any injustice done to them but from the sense of inadequacy and impotence. We cannot win the weak by sharing our wealth with them. They feel our generosity as oppression. St. Vincent De Paul cautioned his disciples to deport themselves so that the poor "will forgive them the bread you give them." - Eric Hoffer
I won't be voting to increase my taxes and help the working classes out - why bother? They don't want your help, so next time I will be voting for the most hardcore libertarian Tory I can find who will protect my own interests.
You can’t tell me you believe in either of those claims.
Of course not. There's only one solution to this and that's a labour govt. That's only possibly if the people in these areas vote labour. That's only going to happen if the labour party respects what people in these areas decided in the brexit vote.
Of course not. There’s only one solution to this and that’s a labour govt. That’s only possibly if the people in these areas vote labour. That’s only going to happen if the labour party respects what people in these areas decided in the brexit vote.
And that's totally going to happen if those remain Labour supporters decide to go elsewhere. Which they will. Without the young vote, without the centrist vote - they will bomb at the next GE.
And when they do, I will likely laugh myself into a coma.
The crusades will be back on April 1st no joke
Making Britain Grate Again.
There’s way too many people on here hanging to the idea that things have been so great under the EU. For a lot of us we got our economic destruction already, before the vote.
That's not really the issue though. Irrespective of whether things have been great or shit with the EU, we're simply not in a position to "just leave." We have a symbiotic relationship with the EU, like it or not, and we can no more "just leave" than you can cut out a tumour with a rusty Swiss Army Knife instead of a team of surgeons and nurses.
Any Government worth its salt would have planned for no-deal and started to look at ways to rebuild our country.
Any government worth it's salt wouldn't be entertaining "no deal" as any sort of viable option that any sane person would actively choose. No deal is what happens when we run out of options. It's an utterly, utterly stupid idea (see my previous paragraph) and anyone who actively wants it is either a disaster capitalist or a moron.
The Labour Party under Corbyn is simply unelectable. And getting less appealing to even the Momentum hardcore by the day.
Have you seen the recent polls? In the face of a government in total chaos, about to wreak economic havoc on the country, he’s going backwards. Quite an achievement
Still... he’ll have played a starring roll in delivering the Brexit he’s always wanted, so he’s quite happy, I’m sure
The Nissan desicion is just a visable and ironic example of what's being going on in boardrooms across the globe since the day of the Brexit vote.
Our CEO has refused to invest any new capital in the UK until Brexit is sorted out. But were only one of the if not the largest singe contributors to the UKs GDP so that could end well. My industry doesn't even have tariffs under WTO rules.
Investment in the UK car industry was down 50% last year. With Vauxhall now owned by Peugot and Nissan by Renault where do you think their future investment is going Sunderland and the Wirral ?
The UK Car industry has grown as a gate way to Europe especially for the Japanese car makers. Where are they going to invest in the future.
Well I suppose we've got 2 months for those German Car makers to finally start battering down Merkels door, as apparently they need us more than we need them.
Sorry just project fear in me slipping out, I'm sure everything will be fine.
What Binners said. Corbyn turns out is not the messiah.
Any government worth it’s salt wouldn’t be entertaining “no deal” as any sort of viable option that any sane person would actively choose. No deal is what happens when we run out of options. It’s an utterly, utterly stupid idea (see my previous paragraph) and anyone who actively wants it is either a disaster capitalist or a moron.
Well, quite. Many of them, in Blyth, it would seem...
the brexit vote was a massive opportunity for the people to change things
Like what? - or you've massively conflated what the referendum was about, unless of course you've swallowed the popular narrative that the UK's woes were the fault of the EU when they were almost entirely self-inflicted and decades of people of all persuasions voting for tax cuts and austerity.
Even though we haven't left yet, the damage has been done as many business have now diverted investment to other countries or instead of hiring and training people, they're having to tie up cash in contingency stuff that will yield no return. Do you thing overseas investors are going to flock to the UK when people like Boris say "**** business"?
Regional investment? Dream-on, it's gonna take billions to clear up this mess...
Corbyn turns out is not the messiah.
Was he ever? Curious though as to who you think would have done any better at navigating the impossible conundrum of the labour vote being split along brexit lines. And please don't say Yvette Cooper.
Yvette Cooper! 😝
My cat could have made a better job of it than Corbyn. Actually, my cat has probably shown more interest and aptitude in doing so over the last few years
Binners, your mistake is to think that this whole mess is in any way soluble if only the right person was opposition leader.
Corbyn's failing because the situation is impossible, not because he's particularly at fault.
Yvette Cooper failed to get all Labour MPs to support her amendment to prevent no deal. Had she done so then I might have agreed, but she didn't.
Anyone else?
Dream-on, it’s gonna take billions to clear up this mess…
Rubbish.....there's a magic money tree
Is there an actual single brexiteer left on this thread?
They’re all on Twitter and Facebook re-posting Britain First and EDL stuff
I think there are a few Corbyn cultists who think their saint’s Brexit might work. In a Disaster Socialism bout of collective suffering kinda way.
Why do you have it in for the people of Blyth in particular Mr Woppit? There are many other areas which also voted for unicorns.
It’s his new religion.
Is there an actual single brexiteer left on this thread?
I doubt it, if i had my way they'd be rounded up and sent for readjustment programming, if they agree that they were wrong then all well and good - you get to pass otherwise i'm happy to leave them strung up in gibbets as a putrefying warning to stupidity.
Blyth has been featured on a couple of C4News items recently. No doubt there are similar stories to be found elsewhere
Corbyns failure was to embrace 'constructive ambiguity' for too long, kind of understandable, Brexit is a Tory mess & in many ways makes sense to let them own this shambles. its an impossible fantasy that 1/2 the country believe, so toxic to all parties.
But what Corbyn didnt do was act in the nations interests early enough, every time a brexiteer or May started promising unicorns they should have been shot down straight away - Corbyn turned avoiding cchallenging May on Brexit at PMQs into a running joke.
The lies of the Leave campaign were allowed to fester for far too long, when it became obvious that May was simply going to carry on with the fantasy that we can keep the benefits of membership after we'd left it was time to step up & be honest.
Instead the likes of Hoey & even Gardiner have been allowed to keep pushing these myths, Labour's stance that they could somehow negotiate a better deal was just as idiotic as the Tories.
Corbyn even pushing May to trigger A50 ASAP (trying to force May into a tactical error or just foolish ?) but the net result has been a disaster, with no plan at the outset, crashing out with no deal was always a terrible risk.
Dont get me wrong Brexit is the ultimate example of the Tories throwing the country under a bus, rather than be honest about their own party's divisions.
Everyone expects the likes of Mogg, Johnson etc to want to f-k over the poor Leave voting areas, but Corbyn has enabled that.
Now we see Nissan, Airbus, Vauxhall, JLR etc doing what they said theyd have to do if we decided to shoot ourselves in the foot, even the economists behind Leave have been pretty brazen about this.
https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1056490686638383104
The country is polarised, theres no real way out of this & like it or not the poorest regions will be hurt the most, even if Brexit were called off tomorrow , the UKs reputation is in tatters, investment wont be coming back, the apprentices abandoned in manufacturing over the last couple of years wont catch up (& if you think that May bribing the constituencies of a few labour leave MPs to save her deal & her party is going to equate to long term regional development in those areas you are tragically naive). Every indicator says that we will have less growth & that means austerity-
For that reason alone Labour should have stepped up sooner
To be fair, Blyth was by no means the worst of the Channel 4 news pieces. The one from Barrow - a post-apocalyptic hell-hole if ever there was one - was truly staggering, featuring a procession of toothless, tracky-clad simpletons repeating “WHY CAN’T THEY JUST GET ON WITH IT?!”
Apparently still totally oblivious to any of the actual complexities, or the realities and still thinking it was like cancelling a gym membership.
Good look with your impending post-Brexit regeneration Barrow
They’re all on Twitter and Facebook re-posting Britain First and EDL stuff
Because that is going to make such a difference to posting here.
