The Torys will close ranks and nod May through the no confidence vote. There's no way on earth even the most hardline Brexiteer lunatic will not risk a general election
So we're left with two party leaders who are both patently hopeless, who's own MP's mainly loath them as they know they're hopeless, but are safe in their respective positions due purely to the total cluster-**** of our present situation, with the clock ticking
What a mess! We're utterly devoid of leadership or direction from either main party
The thing nobodoy is really talking about is that there's a bucket load of legislation that needs passing before we actually leave. MPs were already saying there's not enough time to get it all through parliament and the current faff is just taking more time out of what's left. I believe the saying is "Tick Tock".
He really is a total and utter waste of space.
May suffers record defeat; Binners still rabbiting on about Corbyn. "Nothing has changed" as someone said.
“Let’s park the unicorns for five minutes” Emily Maitliss to Matt Hancock on Newsnight
If even the Beeb with its hands tied behind its back in token appeasement of ‘balance’ can’t put up with the hogwash being spouted any more then we are inching closer to the point of having to tell the truth.
It is a terrible idea and we can’t do it.
Hopefully this is the start of the Beeb saying “we can’t have ‘balance’ on this issue because that has to involve people telling lies and it damages our credibility too”.
It's just an unrequited mancrush there DrJ
But it's partly true, this is a point where he needs to be putting something forward. He needs to persuade some tories to support him.
But out of all of this bring back the lib dems please.
And in that the next person to mention tuition fees or whiff of ministerial leather as a reason for not voting lib dem/pro eu needs to go take a ****ing hard look at the curre t situation. Stop living in the past.
If even the Beeb
Yeah, but they are still on the same tune on R4Today this morning, giving the lie-machine that is Steve Baker and the vile Leadsom woman full opportunity to spout their propaganda
DrJ - its because at this point, more than ever, we need a proper party of opposition to articulate an alternative vision or just offere a realistic way out of this mess!.
Instead we get him calling a no confidence vote eveyone knows he'll lose, a call for a general election everyone knows he won't get, and the continuation of a 'cake and eat it' policy with the EU, just with red unicorns instead of blue ones
Can you just run me through how this moves us on in any way, or remotely offers any solutions to this total shambles?
I'm all ears.....
not even trying – to hold the government to account<
Yesterday was all about holding the government to account.
When did Corbyn get so shouty? Just seen a clip of him calling for the no confidence vote.
But out of all of this bring back the lib dems please.
The biggest irony here is that the LibDems are so tainted with the toxicity of coalition with the Tories that their core support deserted them. That the principal beneficiaries of their own toxicity are the Tories themselves you have to wonder if this isn’t all just a big episode of Beadle’s About.
When did Corbyn get so shouty? Just seen a clip of him calling for the no confidence vote.
Didn't may offer him that last night lol
The Tories smeared the libdems so hard for 2015. I still find it ironic that the libdem support collapsed over tuition fees, there really was nothing* Clegg could have done, they tempered the Tories big time, and managed to achieve some of the libdem agenda. It was the greatest achievement of any libdem leader ever. But all anyone remembers is the one broken promise. EVERY OTHER PARTY HAS BROKEN PROMISES EVERY ****ING TIME.
*OK - Clegg could have abandoned the coalition, but by then the Tory support was up, because look what happened in 2015. So quitting the coalition would have brought about tuition fees anyway - he was damned either way.
The biggest irony here is that the LibDems are so tainted with the toxicity of coalition with the Tories that their core support deserted them.
so tainted?? By comparison they are still whiter than white, rolling out the double/triple standards is a pointless exercise. What is done is done, move on people.
Sooooo...
May survives today’s vote. Then she goes back to Brussels and says ‘help’. The EU asks ‘how can we help’ and May basically asks for nothing new.
So what happens on Monday?
Parliament is paralysed in a feedback loop. The clock keeps running down and we inch closer to the abyss.
May will not resign. The party will not oust her. There will not be a GE. Tories will not call a 2nd ref or revoke A50. There is no plausible alternative ‘deal’ that a majority of Parliament will support.
Honestly, someone please explain how this ends in anything other than no deal?
Does anyone think she will resign?
I don't. There's something limpet about her.
they tempered the Tories big time, and managed to achieve some of the libdem agenda.
their pr might have suggested that but the reality was different, and all that spin had the effect of convincing the right leaning side of liberal vote to think lets cut out the middle man and vote tory instead and the left leaning not voting for tory light.
Honestly, someone please explain how this ends in anything other than no deal?
Maybe this?
If we hit deadlock then it's up to May to put something forward before the deadline, the options for parliament have to kick in.
So next up write to your MP, tell them what you want
It’s no good looking back, the only way is forward and how we get out of this mess. I think it’s fair to say that never in the history of these islands, have so many people been so divided on a relatively simple subject. You only need to wstch a Reporter interviewing a few people in a gym in Leeds to see the situation is unsolvable.
We don’t know if anyone else could or would extract a better deal from the eu, it’s just total speculation. As for another vote, what if it’s the same result? This will just be extended and nothing will have changed by the next decision date. Total mess!
Honestly, someone please explain how this ends in anything other than no deal?
There's no parliamentary majority for no deal, so it's going to be a re-hash of May's deal (although it seems like the deal is the deal currently) or revoke A50/No Brexit.
Honestly, someone please explain how this ends in anything other than no deal?
Only other majority in parliament is for stopping no deal, which means
Revoking A50 - but the gammon will explode, no one wants to own that
GE & extension of a50, possible but even DUP & ERG aren't that stupid
Extension of a50 & 2nd ref unlikely as Corbyn won't back it
May at some point conceding that her red lines have to go & allowing MPs to vote on series motions until end up with Norway type deal
I think the last is most likely, but since Mogg shot his bolt too early May can't be deposed & it relies on her backing down.....
So Corbyn's job is to come up with a fully fledged plan acceptable to the EU, the ERG, Uncle Tom Cobbleigh and all. That makes sense.
We don’t know if anyone else could or would extract a better deal from the eu,
I think we do
With the same weak hand, faced by the same organised & unified front & same skilled negotiators we'd be on the back foot regardless
This gives you an idea of the state of my MP. Anyone else I can write to?
“I have coined the phrase ‘a clean global Brexit’ instead of ‘crashing out’ (to describe trading on WTO terms).
“Wouldn’t it be refreshing to hear this term being used – yes, even by the BBC!
I'm going to invest in Fudge as there will be plenty of it needed at Westminster soon.
Revoking A50 – but the gammon will explode, no one wants to own that
I'd own that with both hands quite happily ...
May at some point conceding that her red lines have to go & allowing MPs to vote on series motions until end up with Norway type deal
This seems possible at the moment. The vote passes, but relies heavily on opposition support, possibly with the majority of the Tory benches voting against it. Michael Gove will think about resigning again but will either back down again, or mess up the timing and end up with egg on his face again.
So Corbyn’s job is to come up with a fully fledged plan acceptable to the EU, the ERG, Uncle Tom Cobbleigh and all. That makes sense.
A realistic policy of any description would maybe be nice at this point in proceedings.
According to the Daily Mirror journalist who's spoken to Corbyns inner sanctum, he's locked himself in his bunker to, in her words: 'work things out for himself' as to Labours next step
So much for 'listening to the membership?
May and Corbyn are exactly the same! A pair of stubborn idiots, totally devoid of pragmatism, who consult nobody and have no interest in anyones opinion but their own! They just fervently believe that they're right and everyone else is wrong and bulldoze on despite all evidence showing it will lead to disaster
And we're all being held hostage to the will of this pair of clowns!
Honestly, someone please explain how this ends in anything other than no deal?
It's a fear of mine, I'll be honest.
The first answer is that she can't go back with nothing new, she has to consult across the house and give up some of her red lines to enable the EU to come back with some compromises of their own. Then she can deliver the Brexit that 17.4M voted for even if it isn't really the Brexit anyone wanted (BINO / supersoft / call it what you will). Might also need a bit more time for the mechanics, but that can be presented as not a 'delay' - rather it's an extension to dot i's and cross t's.
If she doesn't them move to part II below, at which point she'll have to do that anyway
In the event she doesn't start to negotiate properly with them I see a couple of pressure relief valves.
1/ The EU is already signalling willingness to extend to avoid the abyss of no-deal which will serve no-one any good apart from the few multi-millionaire hedge fund bastards. If May and the Cabinet to allow us to go off the abyss, against the will of pretty much the whole of the business community, the ensuing mess will make the LibDem tuition fee toxicity look like nothing. They have to see this and pull back from the brink.
2/ In the event that they don't and plough ahead regardless we can have a no-confidence motion on a daily basis if we want, and my hope is there are enough moderates in parliament that eventually a NC vote can be successful which will inevitably lead to a delay being sought and granted while the shenanigans are sorted out.
In the event of II-2 however - who then is able to command a majority and restart the talks is another fear. Does it result ultimately in another GE - not necessarily but if it does, with our FPTP system, and potentially a hard right leader replacing May..... I have no idea how that would play; could be a Johnson or Rees-Mogg led increased majority. Could be the schism that splits the tory party and creates a new era of coalition politics. It avoids the 29.3 no deal crash out but what in return?
Norway type deal now with a pledge for a propertional representation referendum again in 5 years.
We shouldn't stay in the EU as we do not have the same political aspirations as the other 27 countries (same could be said for most of the other members) and we do not want to switch to the Euro.
In those 5 years take other measures to show that we 'have more control', like
- identity cards which nearly all countries in the EU have.
- monitor the costs of health tourism and other impacts of immigration so they can be shown to be a non-issue. If necessary offset these costs against the foriegn aid budget to keep the moaners in check.
- rapidly build up infrastructure (doctors/hospitals/etc) to cope with the effects of immigration.
- invest in building up industry in the midlands/north to balance the properity of the south.
- clamp down on companies exploiting cheap european labour to the expense of local labour.
- clamp down on the exploitation of zero hour contracts and other poor working conditions
this will probably mean tax increases but these can be offset against the loss of properity (at least short term) caused by brexit
- plan for how a non-hard but not open irish border would work in case the next referendum votes out
As far as I can tell we can do all of that (apart from your Irish border unicorns) without leaving the EU.
So why leave? Then we wouldn't need the Irish border unicorns.
Haha....that's hilarious TG!
We shouldn’t stay in the EU as we do not have the same political aspirations as the other 27 countries (same could be said for most of the other members) and we do not want to switch to the Euro.
I'm not sure about you or the rest of the 52% but I'm pretty sure i share the political aspirations of increased individual freedom and protection in a way which strengthens legitimate government, encourages debate and tolerance whilst working towards a society where integration, equality and freedom are the paramount objectives with much of the world not just the EU.
They're aspirations mind, not promises or even attainable goals but you know, hopes and dreams.
Of course your aspirations might be different but I'd appreciate if you'd not lump the rest of us in with your desire to march proudly back to the 17th century.
We shouldn’t stay in the EU as we do not have the same political aspirations as the other 27 countries
And by "We" you presumably mean you? The rest of your comments are just typical brexiter ignorance. The UK has a lot more control than brexiters seem to realise and can do a lot of things already if the UK we bothered.
Surely the only option is now to revoke article 50.
Leave won the referendum, TM went to get a deal, they were then shown the deal, no one liked it. So as we were then.
https://twitter.com/jamesmelville/status/960580026176606213
On Twitter last night..
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If a deal is impossible, and no one wants no deal, then who will finally have the courage to say what the only positive solution is?</p>— Donald Tusk (@eucopresident) <a href=" https://twitter.com/eucopresident/status/1085260488903090176?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">15 January 2019</a></blockquote>
https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js edit. so how do you embed twitter?
– identity cards which nearly all countries in the EU have.
why dont we have those?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1482904/Howard-backs-down-over-ID-card-support.html
Surely the only option is now to revoke article 50.
Leave won the referendum, TM went to get a deal, they were then shown the deal, no one liked it. So as we were then.
That is how I see it but there is the option of no deal as a way to leave. That really needs to be legally ruled out and then A50 can be revoked. No Deal should have been ruled out from day 1 but that clearly didn't fit with "No deal is better than a bad deal"
Instead we get him calling a no confidence vote eveyone knows he’ll lose
???
Before christmas everyone was criticising Corbyn for not calling a no confidence vote. I'm bloody confused.
edit. so how do you embed twitter?
Just click the tweet & copy the URL...
https://twitter.com/eucopresident/status/1085260488903090176
In the nicest possible way I wish the EU guys wouldn't do that.
He's right, of course, but we need the idiots to work it out for themselves, otherwise "they" are once again telling "us" what to do.
Compare:
monitor the costs of health tourism and other impacts of immigration so they can be shown to be a non-issue...
...invest in building up industry in the midlands/north to balance the properity of the south...
...clamp down on the exploitation of zero hour contracts and other poor working conditions...
with:
I’d appreciate if you’d not lump the rest of us in with your desire to march proudly back to the 17th century
and:
And by “We” you presumably mean you? The rest of your comments are just typical brexiter ignorance
and then get back to me with a coherent argument about how these points are either a) a 400-year setback or b) typical brexiter ignorance. Or did you just not read past "We shouldn’t stay in the EU" and revert to the bullet pointed soundbite shouting match that has served both sides so well over the last couple of years.
dazh
Before christmas everyone was criticising Corbyn for not calling a no confidence vote. I’m bloody confused.
the crticism was more that he wasnt backing a peoples vote
thats still the crticism
Before christmas everyone was criticising Corbyn for not calling a no confidence vote. I’m bloody confused.
I think people were criticising Jeremy for more than that. He has done too little for too long.
Do you think Jeremy will win his No Confidence vote?
