OK supplementary question then. What does it cost be be in the single market and the customs union?
You have to abide by their rules
Probably start about £8bn for a quick guess.
Shirley the real issue for a Corbyn lead labour party is that the UK is not a particularly socialist or left wing country... I'm not talking about the good people on here, but the general public and therefore the people that decide elections.
When was the last time we actually had a socialist (or even remotely socialist) government? Other than Blair (not really socialist was he?) when did we have a labour government (even a not particularly socialist one) who also had a decent sized majority in recent history?
By my reckoning we've never been a particularly left leaning country and hence I think it will be an uphill task for Jezza to pick up all of those floating voters he needs to win an election with any kind of decent majority unless he changes his stance and compromises on a few things.
So why be out of step with both the moderates in his party and in the electorate? Who does he think is going to vote for him? It might just be that rather than backing remain being the thing that splits the party, it might actually be his one and only chance of picking up enough votes of getting anywhere near number 10. Especially given that Labour have lost their way and Scotland and when the constituency boundary changes kick in the Tories will have an even easier task to keep Labour at bay.
TJ - you are actually aware that your messiah three-line-whipped his MP’s into voting against remaining in the customs union and the single market?!
Or does your delusion genuinely know no bounds?
I’m sure you’d love him to rescue us from Brexit, but unfortunately he’s about as likely to as Boris Johnson
OK supplementary question then. What does it cost be be in the single market and the customs union?
Norway pays the EU around £740m/yr; pro-rata they're about a fifth of the size of the UK, so would work out very roughly £3.7Bn (if whereas UK currently pays $14Bn a year and gets about £6Bn back) - so very roughly half the costs. Per capita, they pay £106/head whereas UK pays £128/head.
OK supplementary question then. What does it cost be be in the single market and the customs union?
It's difficult to put precise numbers on this but from what I understand Norway pays around 90% per person of what the UK pays. And that's just for access to the Single Market.
Paying to access both would most likely be more than what the UK is paying now, with no say in the rules, obviously. I honestly believe this is what's eventually going to happen. It would be a truly fitting end.
Edit: didn't see dovebiker's comment. I'd go with his numbers.
Edit - not worth replying to TJ about Corbyn 'till after he's waved us over the line into third country status.
Sorry TJ, but you’re deluded. Listen to what Corbyn says, and how he instructs the whips, not what you wish he was doing.
Well in some ways it looks like a cold hard play for number 10, kill off the tories while they fight among them selves and then take charge.
On if he would deliver Brexit it's unclear, for now it's about sticking to the same line that you can deliver Brexit better as that is "officially" what people want, can't be in trouble for doing what they asked can you?
After that the game is what can be achieved.
There is an awful lot of gammon hate for Corbyn already, I fear we might well see the first assasination of a UK pm if he ended up winning an election on a remain in the EU ticket. He certainly wouldn't be spending much quiet time alone down the allotment
On if he would deliver Brexit it’s unclear
He says he would. Is he lying?
After that the game is what can be achieved.
Ahh… "the game".
Ahh… “the game”.
Just a phrase
Well in some ways it looks like a cold hard play for number 10
To be honest why would anyone want number 10 just at the moment. As May has so effectively shown its a hospital pass right now. And it's not like he is shouting from the rafters about how it should be done currently. I just don't why he would want to be PM.
I'm loving bercow....despite his er shortcomings
Corbyn would be in just as a mess as May is if he got in, split party, split commons, split public opinion.
So I kinda see why he's keeping brexit at arms length, the poisoned challis gets free refills.
It's also a little bit cowardly though, he and May are both playing brinkmanship in a game of poker where they both have bad hands and they both know it.
You have to abide by their rules
... Which won't change if we leave, we'll just no longer have a say in making them.
Just watched arch-Brexiteer Andrea Leadsom being interviewed.
I’ve got stuff in my fridge with a better understanding of how the 21st century economy works, and generally a lot brighter
Tom Watson is on now, proving that the Tory’s don’t have a monopoly on idiocy. There’s another labour MP on who’s barely capable of stringing a sentence together,
The front benches of both our political parties are populated by absolute utter and complete morons. Total ****ing ####s, the lot of them!
And in the mean time, jaguar land rover, are to lay off five thousand people, but it's alright, they're planning to hire three thousand more, in Slovakia..... It's all project fear right?
Ahh… “the game”.
Of course it is a game, parliamentary politics is all a game and winning the game gets you into power. You have strategies, you use media (traditional and social), you try to look better than the alternative parties, you try and make the alternative parties look bad, you never agree with what they are doing publicly even though privately you agree with some things, you twist the facts to backup your argument etc,.
What do you think it is if it isn't a game?
Odds for A50 revoke are down from 5/1 to 4/1. If you want to know what is likely to happen look to the bookmakers not the polls.
Not sure about that one. I believe you could have got some attractive odds on both the Brexit vote and US elections going the way they did. PaddyPower paid out on a Hillary win in advance!
This is uncharted territory, and the bookmakers are probably as clueless as the rest of us.
Let's hope not, obviously.
Bookies odds reduce when money is placed on one outcome, So it's basically a sign of what Joe Public is placing his/her hard earned on, and thus, is useless.
Bookmarks odds are based both on the probability of something happening and the exposure the bookies have i.e. the number of people who have bet. So shortening of odds doesn't necessarily mean that the likelihood has increased, it could just mean more people have bet.
Of course it is a game, parliamentary politics is all a game and winning the game gets you into power.
It's not as people get to die/starve/revolt if you get it wrong. Let's be quite clear anyone regarding this as a game is probably suffering some form of delusion.
Yes due to a 50% down turn in china sales and because 90% of their sale are diesel. They are cutting the fat in management and marketing, which is based in the uk. The motor industry is continuing a glut of production even though sales are down globally. Brexit has and will have an effect on car sales due to the week pound and probable tariffs, but the decline in the motor industry as we know it is inevitable.
Yeah, while it might be shit for the individuals concerned, a reduction in car production must be a good thing overall.
Quite a few of the people down in Westminster are pretty deluded. They're certainly not living in or aware of what goes on in the real world are they?
What little faith I had left in politicians to do the right thing has evaporated over the last few years. They caused all of this and let the cat out of the bag and now they are trying to manoeuvre themselves into a position of power and look after their and their party interests whilst they do it.
I don't just mean the tory party either..........
Let’s be quite clear anyone regarding this as a game is probably suffering some form of delusion.
Same should be applied to those who don't get that game has a contextual meaning, as a wise philosopher said, when you play the game of thrones you win or you die.
We could swap the word game for something a bit different if you want but the meaning would be the same.
Wait a minute.... so there is a downturn in China?
Weren't they one of the new markets we were going to waltz into because the Eurozone was contracting?
Yeah, while it might be shit for the individuals concerned, a reduction in car production must be a good thing overall.
Did anyone see the social credit system in China?
How long can the world sustain itself by making things which to some are not essential the world economy is driven by working to have nice things is it not ?
How long can the world sustain itself by making things which to some are not essential the world economy is driven by working to have nice things is it not ?
We will probably need to keep it going until we can solve energy production, in the short term as China moves into a more consumerist nation the demand will pick up and cheap production moves on to the next of their neighbours.
Chinese economic downturn in part down to Uncle Donald and his US trade sanctions - Brexit is merely the pimple of the arse of global economics
Are we ready for Corbyn's speech today? What are the odds on it boiling down to… "stop the messy damaging Tory Brexit, let us arrange for a not at all messy or damaging Labour Brexit instead"… and to then be told that Labour is keeping an option that might possibly stop Brexit on the table (in an airtight bag, with a damp towel over it) and that Corbyn doesn't support Brexit (or alternatively that he has to support it).
I see the right wing press are up in arms about the parliamentary soverignty they championed delivering a verdict that they don't like
No Binners, it's all about the sovereignty of voters now, not who they vote for. That's the line Brexiteers use now. Parliament is the enemy. Just keep those voters away from any more voting, and respect their sovereignty. Or something.
egotistical preening popinjay
Winding up Quentin Letts into a frothing mess must be a bonus for him, though.
Yes due to a 50% down turn in china sales and because 90% of their sale are diesel. They are cutting the fat in management and marketing, which is based in the uk.
Meanwhile 300 new jobs in Slovakia.
I see the right wing press are up in arms about the parliamentary soverignty they championed delivering a verdict that they don’t like
Yes, the irony really does seem lost on them. Also, the motion was past by a mere 51% for, 49% against margin. I meant who would feel a vote by that sort of slim majority should be taken seriously. It should be at least 52/48 to have a mandate.
Screw 'em - May has had her 21 days already when she pulled the first vote at the last minute.
as posted elsewhere...... 3 days shouldn't be an issue given the 21 months they've had so far and the huge number of brilliant ideas they generated in that time.
Yeah but they've lost the massive intellect of David Davis!!
Yeah but they’ve lost the massive intellect of David Davis!!
Yes but with Leadsome, Grayling, Fox and a bloke called Steve on the team, how can they fail?
And still the BBC had a 'member of the public' on yesterday asking in all seriousness "...we need to get on and leave, so that we can suspend all the European laws immediately and put our own in place..."
Sadly, the ability to vote (much like a driving license) does not confirm any intellect what so ever.
So that's Jezza's masterplan? An election & unicorns...
RED unicorns comrade!
