She’s said that the vote is definitely going ahead, so going off everything else she’s ever done (or not done) we can pretty much guarantee that it certainly won’t be.
She’ll let MP’s spend another week posturing and pompously pontificating in Parliament then she’ll pull it at the eleventh hour again
we can pretty much guarantee that it certainly won’t be.
Don't discount a cunning double bluff, somebody will along shortly to tell us how it's all part of her master plan.
There's very little cunning involved
The ferry farce being a prime example
And theres more where that came from...
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1081990825922449409?s=19
The government are modelling what the no deal traffic jams of the 5000? trucks a day delayed at Dover would look like.
Only they could only get hold of half the 150 lorries they were supposed to use...
https://twitter.com/EastKentTAB/status/1082189252891418624?s=19
Cunning....nearly right
Only they could only get hold of half the 150 lorries they were supposed to use…
Well them lads could just drive around in circles, in reality this should just be a confirmation of the issues that were identified in their computer models of this, the traffic simulations that were run against various traffic levels measured over the last 6 months for the area so we can predict with some confidence what the best and worst case situations would be and what the indicators of problems will be.
But yeah getting some trucks to drive around is visible....
Only they could only get hold of half the 150 lorries they were supposed to use…
Surely if they get hold of 52% that's enough to base any big decision on?
The ferry farce is stunning. Pretty much everyone vaguely interested in ships knew that Ramsgate can't take big ships, but their due diligence appears to have been to look at "The AA Touring Atlas of Europe 1968". The chosen route is also bonkers as Ostend is a pig to navigate into. The shortest crossing time will be about 4 hours, assuming the get a crew who don't need to take a pilot at either end. Don't fancy using the PAX linkspan in Ramsgate either, well, not without climbing gear:
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https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1082146978308476928.html
Lovely thread here by a reporter for The Independent on the traffic jam farce.
Whatever happens it's going to be a huge mess, isn't it?
The gammon hoards seem to be more entrenched than ever with no amount of facts able to counter the Dunkirk spirit and they're getting louder. They really will happily drive us off a cliff, then blame everyone else.
I'm a lefty by nature but am really starting to worry about what Corbyn is up to. To make it worse (as predicted by some but not necessarily believed by me at the time) many of his supporters are starting to sound as bonkers as the gammons.
It seems the middle ground really is swelling with no one to represent them. I'm not a Blair fan these days and would never trust the lib dems but am in danger of getting lumped in with the centrists, as are many more who would not identify themselves as such.
Worst of all is that we'll be the ones clearing it all up!
It seems the middle ground really is swelling with no one to represent them.
I think more and more are reaching the real conclusion that this is not a party political issue and the current parties cannot solve it. Neither Corbyn or may hold a majority of one opinion here. They do have enough loyalists to block things but not deliver them.
Until the whips are removed or a significant revolt occurs there will be no way forward.
15th is the test of that, if the vote is pulled a vote of no confidence must be called. But crucially there must be a plan beyond can we have a go. We need to get to March knowing the outcome.
thats a brilliant link crazy legs
Should democracy be thrown under the ****ing bus if it means the country doesn't sink?
There is a democratic way out of all of this, we have a parliament, we have people who can make all the decisions.
'Lord' Peter Lilly, who's a raving Brexiteer is on Five Live at the moment. They really are living in some insane fantasy world. All borders at Dover etc will be fine because.... well they just will. The Northern Ireland border isn't an issue because "we'll just find a solution". Supply chains and jobs will all be fine because, again... they just will, ok?! A no deal Brexit will all be just ticketty boo because.... it just will
Thats their answers! Seriously
Its terrifying that these flag-waving lunatics are presently wagging the government dog
So all this simulating and traffic research and ferries....has a contingency been made for Europeans being awkward at t other end like.
Thats their answers! Seriously
Its terrifying that these flag-waving lunatics are presently wagging the government dog
Id like to think the interviewer tore them to pieces over this?
if not the press have failed utterly
So all this simulating and traffic research and ferries….has a contingency been made for Europeans being awkward at t other end like.
Well form what I can see none of the research has been done, unless somebody in here grabbed the tender nice and quick - especially as we have not been doing any no deal planning until now. It's a pointless and pathetic attempt to make people think things are being looked after - like THM's mythical grown ups
I think the Europeans' contingency plans are likely to be along the lines of '**** this bollocks, let's shop somewhere else'
I can just see it taking 20 hours to turn around all these imaginary ships
Id like to think the interviewer tore them to pieces over this?
if not the press have failed utterly
It was Emma Barnet and to be fair she ripped into him pointing out that he was stating airy generalisations and opinions - 'it'll all be fine' - as fact, while providing absolutely no details whatsoever as to why or how 'it'll all be fine'
But thats what the Brexiteers have been doing since day one, isn't it?
They just keep repeating the same fictional platitudes, and the gammons keep lapping it up.
His answer to being pulled up on this was to start banging on about the BBC being a remainer conspiracy, hostile to Brexit.
It’s a pointless and pathetic attempt to make people think things are being looked after – like THM’s mythical grown ups
We will end up back in the EU at some point. The time it takes to get to that point is directly proportional to the amount of pain it will cause.
It is all about how much pain will it take for us to swallow our over-inflated national pride and just admit this was a terrible idea from the start. Do it now and upset a few loonies a lot and a lot of duped normal folk a bit. Ask for the clock to be stopped (the EU would probably agree), then spend a bit more time 'soul-searching' before revoking A50.
Go over a cliff and the pain will be so much worse. Parliament is dysfunctional if something so obvious cannot be sorted.
I think we can all agree that if the last 3 years have shown us anything its that our first-past-the-post, 2 party system is totally unfit for purpose in the 21st century.
On both sides, a minority of idealogical zealots are basically dictating policy to the majority, and geting away with it time after time.
May is running scared of her right wingers and the DUP yet again, and Corbyn is just ignoring the overwhelming wishes of Labour MP's, members and voters, and just happily facilitating Brexit as thats what him and Len want.
And this is democracy?
I agree with binners, the whole sorry mess needs dismantling and rebuilding. Sadly the referendum on voting reform was lost due to a pathetic campaign by YES and "stage management" by NO.
During the referendum I was undecided and willing to be swayed either way by a convincing argument. No one had one so my position was status quo.
This being so I could get on board with Corbyn if he gave us the faintest idea what the actual plan is. I understand his reasons for wanting to leave but that relies on him being in power. From where I'm standing if he continues to facilitate Brexit he'll lose a huge amount of support and gain very little meaning he'll never win a election.
The plan of forcing a GE is bonkers when you are alienating the very people who gave you half a chance last time. That being the case he's a dead duck but by the time he's replaced it'll be too late.
You weren't swayed by the benefits of border-free trade and a Europe-wide business environment?
We had business leaders queuing up to tell you why it was important.
We will end up back in the EU at some point. The time it takes to get to that point is directly proportional to the amount of pain it will cause.
You assume the EU will have us back after all this? The world moves forwards, if the UK can't accept that what is its place?
I would suggest the reality is Scotland rejoining, Ireland reunifying and the rump of England and Wales....
The latest polling from yesterdays Observer:
If Corbyn backs Brexit, he faces electoral catastrophe
The conventional voting intention question produces a six-point Conservative lead (40% to 34%). This is bad enough for an opposition that ought to be reaping electoral dividends at a time when the government is in crisis.
However, when voters are asked how they would vote if Labour failed to resist Brexit, the Conservatives open up a 17-point lead (43% to 26%). That would be an even worse result than in Margaret Thatcher’s landslide victory in 1983, when Labour slumped to 209 seats, its worst result since the 1930s.
He's a liar, a fraud and a lifelong die-hard Brexiteer. Him and the idiots surrounding him believe that this chaos is somehow miraculously going to usher in some socialist utopia
But when it delivers the polar opposite, he'll just shrug and wander off back to the allotment, in exactly the same way that Cameron fled the scene of the crime. He's no different from him, no matter what his deluded supporters would have you believe.
He's a spineless, lying, self-serving shyster in exactly the same mould, just a red, rather than a blue one
You assume the EU will have us back after all this?
Yes - for a few reasons:
1. They are not indoctrinated to act against what is actually in their best interests.
2. They are more politically grown up than we are.
Sure, we may be emasculated somewhat from our previous unbelievably good deal (don't forget we have been the awkward ones for most of the last 40 years, pleading exceptions left, right and centre).
On the flip side of this is that, given the performance over the last two years, I think I'd rather be a rule-taker from Brussels than Westminster in an awful lot of areas. Being in the EU with a freshly tanned backside and a promise not to be such a naughty boy in the future would probably be the best outcome.
We will end up back in the EU at some point.
That would require the agreement of countries that will have benefitted from Brexit. The only way to be sure of a place in the EU is not to leave. Once all the companies that based themselves in the UK to have tarif-free access to Europe with cheap well-qualified labour (despite costly logistics) have relocated to mainland Europe the leaders of the countries they're in won't want them going back to the UK. Same for the countries that pick up banking, commodoties and raw materials trading.
Getting back in will neither be quick nor easy and the UK will be behind Turkey in the queue.
If you were a member of a club and one member, who'd always been a bit of a * anyway, loudly announced he was leaving, called you all a bunch of *s, then curled one out on the carpet before he left... would you be keen to let him back in once he'd done the rounds and realised nobody else would let him in?
Once all the companies that based themselves in the UK to have tarif-free access to Europe with cheap well-qualified labour (despite costly logistics) have relocated to mainland Europe the leaders of the countries they’re in won’t want them going back to the UK. Same for the countries that pick up banking, commodoties and raw materials trading.
If we were to be readmitted it would be under the vanilla rules and there would be no benefit to re-relocating those businesses back to Britain. The deals with have are like virginity, once we lose them we won't ever have them back, we'll be just another member under the same rules as every other member.
Which is why leaving can't be seen as a 'let's see what it's like / can't be worse than what we have' experiment, and if we don't like it we just go back. Which in turn is why in my mind the only question worth answering right now is "are you sure you want to do this?"
To be fair, they'd probably make just as big a cock up re-joining as they have of leaving
the UK will be behind Turkey in the queue.
There is no "queue".
I feel I should clarify my point.
What I was NOT doing was saying that we would end up back exactly where we had been eventually and it would just be painful in the interim.
I was trying to get my point across that we would end up reapplying and probably being accepted eventually and all of our preferential side-deals would no longer exist.
Even if we did end up exactly where we were before, the intervening years of pain would not be worth it (by definition).
So the only solution is to take a hit on our vastly over-inflated 'pride' (whatever that is supposed to mean, perhaps 'ego' would be a better term) and get this nonsense stopped ASAP.
My conscience is entirely clear on this matter since I have never accepted, or will accept the result in June 2016.
If we were to be readmitted it would be under the vanilla rules
Which include Euro membership 🙁
If we were to be readmitted it would be under the vanilla rules
Which include A COMMITMENT TO EVENTUAL Euro membership 🙁
vanilla rules would be a good thing, the UK should stop with the exceptionalism and accept it is a european country and start behaving as such.
vanilla rules would be a good thing, the UK should stop with the exceptionalism and accept it is a european country
You mean like all the other countries wanting special exceptions or dodging the bits they dont like?
Would we get the EU parliament decamping here for no good reason other than throwing a hissy fit if they didnt?
I see the yellow vest guys have got it in for Soubry
https://twitter.com/MikeStuchbery_/status/1082304571580534786?s=19
When is enough going to be enough? When someone's hurt? Killed?
Someone has a very short memory.
If you don't think there's a queue then you need another word for waiting in line, Scotroutes. Five in the line, three already negotiating.
Turkey (applied on 14 April 1987), Macedonia (applied on 22 March 2004), Montenegro (applied in 2008), Albania (applied in 2009), and Serbia (applied in 2009). All except Albania and Macedonia have started accession negotiations.
Still, hasn't happened yet.
Edit: I looked at Kimber's link, I particularly liked the line "You ain't even ****ing British". What I don't understand is why he wasn't arrested for racism and his phone taken as evidence. It would appear French and Brish yellow vests have one thing in common - some ignorant racist dicks among their ranks.
They were actually acusing Soubry of being a nazi
Clearly they're not doing irony, then?
The bottom line is that Brexit has emboldened far right thugs and given a tacit nod, through the (blatently racist) nature of the campaign, to some genuinelly nasty bastards! And I don't just mean Iain Duncan Smith
Should democracy be thrown under the **** bus if it means the country doesn’t sink?
Democracy was thrown under the bus a long time ago, perhaps as long ago as when Call-me-Dave casually asked a seemingly simple yet ill-defined question, with extremely complicated ramifications, of an ignorant (largely, and I include myself in that), easily led population.
Or perhaps it was thrown under the bus the day we allowed politicians to blatantly lie about the issues, or use dodgy campaign finance, or literally break electoral law, all without any consequence.
Or maybe when a sitting government was called into contempt of parliament? Or when the Prime Minister pulled a vote just because she knew she was going to lose?
Democracy has been well and truly thrown under the bus already, calling another referendum or even just calling thw whole thing off would just be a first step in scraping Democracy's pulped remains out from inbetween the tread of the bus's tyres...
