Those that are not intending voting Labour in some sort of barmy protest (particularly post Brexit) are basically choosing Brexit and a Tory Government. How on earth can that be just?
You have picked your voting intention based on one issue(albeit a powerful one) and are helping deliver a Tory Government.
Now think what are you doing to the bottom rung?
The centrists - who haven't suffered as much under the Tories are now upset because of what Brexit *may* do to their livelihood , now feel the need to penalise Labour and the absolute bottom end of society?
So Labour switch to remain and lose 30% of their vote to Tories and get wiped out. Then we get Brexit anyway but it’s neoliberal low tax **** the poor UKofA. Still a good idea?
But they would hoover up every remain vote. I’m sure the libs and greens would form a remain alliance with labour to end this shit show.
Those that are not intending voting Labour in some sort of barmy protest (particularly post Brexit) are basically choosing Brexit and a Tory Government. How on earth can that be just?
You have picked your voting intention based on one issue(albeit a powerful one) and are helping deliver a Tory Government.
I believe the phrase is throwing the baby out with the bath water. Very naive view of things as even if Labour were somehow in power after a Brexit I would rather have Labour intentions dealing with it that Tory intentions (more austerity hitting the poorest the most anyone?)
Also you can we stop going on about Corbyn being a Brexiteer - it was in Labour's manifesto that they accept the referendum result that we voted on in 2017.
Also you can we stop going on about Corbyn being a Brexiteer – it was in Labour’s manifesto that they accept the referendum result that we voted on in 2017.
Doesn't mean he can't still be a Brexiteer.
I would rather have Labour intentions dealing with it that Tory intentions (more austerity hitting the poorest the most anyone?)
I would too, but I don't think Cornyn is the person to do it. I firmly believe he would have done no better than May when dealing with the EU.
Doesn’t mean he can’t still be a Brexiteer
Well he's got a mixed EU voting record so it's not that clear cut.
mixed
I posted Corbyn's voting record a few pages back. It's out, out, out, out... for over forty years.
I have no vote but my New Year's resolution is to become a leaver. Like any resolution it wil be hard to keep and not last long but I think leave with a hard Brexit is increasing in the best interest of the two countries on which my family's well being most depends, France and Germany.
I no longer want Britain poisoning the EU and preventing EU legislation that will protect my interests more if mini-USA-Britain is no longer a member. Britain has used it's influence to make EU legislation more rightwing/liberal, more sylmpathetic to big business/finance, and block social, health and environmental measures.
If I get bored over Christmas I'll demonstrate how Britain has poisoned the EU, the weather here is fantastic though so it would be daft to spend my time going back over British business lobbying of the European Commission, British MEP voting and British-EU negociations over 50 years.
Why vote 55 times for more EU integration then?
If think you need to quote and go back and find my own post with Corbyn's record, Rone. Stop posting enigmatic questions with no subtance and work on convincing us with facts from reputable sources.
As far as I'm aware there haven't been just 55 votes on EU integration. But on his site he quotes
55 votes for, 24 votes against, 44 absences,
so he abstained or voted down more often than he voted in favour.
Anyhow this is what you shuld have posted in the first place so we could all judge for ourselves
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10133/jeremy_corbyn/islington_north/divisions?policy=1065
His againsts and abstentions are telling.
Edit: when readign thos votes his againstas are often contradictory and conse=istently against the Tory government - much what you'd expect of Labour oppostion who are in the habit of voting simply to express opposition, sometimes a vote in foavour is also a vote of oppostion. Anyhow, an expale of his voting:
On 8 Feb 2017: Jeremy Corbyn voted to empower the Prime Minister to give notification of the United Kingdom's intention to leave the European Union.
Well he’s got a mixed EU voting record so it’s not that clear cut.
Rone, it is you that seems to think it is clear cut not me. You seem to argue that he isn't a Brexiteer because a pro EU stance was in the 2017 manifesto.
I am just pointing out that he could be a Brexit supporter despite this.
Why do you keep on making that silly claim? Do you think that repeated assertion makes it true?
It's not a claim is a hypothesis. If you think it's silly then show me why. Give me numbers.
Labour polled well because there was a glimmer of hope offered to the new voters.
Now that hope has been removed labour will be slaughtered. Labour’s best hope of getting in ,is to go full remain.
Britain: take your Isle of Mann, your Gibralta, your fiscal optimistaion; your zero hours contracts, your rich-poor divide; your pandering to the city and big business; your earls and counts and duchesses, dukes, and inherited privilege; your stingy greed, grab, grab, grab, cake and eat it, "I want my money back"; your illegal attempts to block EU pesticides rules; your resistance to environmental legislation.
Just go away
(sorry about the swear filter avoidance in my last sentence 😉
"Look, Jeremy isn't pro-Brexit, he just says he is, so vote to get him into power." Not. A. Chance. In. Hell.
Just go away
Don't forget that reform as regards making the Single Market more than the Common Market (and plans to include IP, digital and more services), bring in Eastern European countries to expand the EU, reform of CAP (lots more to do there) have all had UK pushing them on. The UK helped the EU become what is now… and yes, has been a brake in some areas as well. The EU won't be a better place without the UK… but I can see how everything that has happened since 2015 might make that opinion look like ________.
I think labour polled well in the last election as it was the best way to scupper the tories plans.
Now Corbyn is happy to treat me (as one of the 60%) with contempt, he can **** right off.
If we somehow end up with a GE (and lets be honest, it won't be because of some grand political manoeuvring by the beardy messiah), I'll find myself in a difficult position. I have a good local labour MP who actually seems to give a stuff, but if the official labour line is red unicorns, I have no idea how I'll vote (I've voted labour all my life just to give some context).
Problem being if I vote labour, I will now be doing so to stop the tories - and yet the beardy ones acolytes will just interpret that as a vote for a hard Brexit and a Venezuelan style socialist paradise.
As far as I’m aware there haven’t been just 55 votes on EU integration.
I understand your point, all I'm saying is a lot on here talk like they're in Corbyn's head. I'm saying the reality is probably a bit more mixed than being clear cut.
Just like Soubry who's voting record is equally confusing.
Stop posting enigmatic questions with no subtance and work on convincing us with facts from reputable sources.
Give me one perfect example of him saying he's a Brexiteer?
I'm just saying that his position likely a complex one based on being caught (like a lot of us) on a broad range of issues. Him more so.
Give me one perfect example of him saying he’s a Brexiteer?
So, is he backing Brexit if he wins a GE (yes, he has said that) because…
1. He wants it.
2. The majority of his party members, Momentum members, the people that voted Labour, and the public at large, don't want it.
?
Venezuelan style socialist paradise.
This is rubbish. Their economic collapse was bound to oil not the ideology. It was also a market based economy with a large private sector.
So, is he backing Brexit if he wins a GE because…
It's completely speculative that things will pan out in that order.
But 3. The electorate voted for it.
The majority of the electorate don't want it either. And the Labour party membership made it clear how you should test that.
Now that hope has been removed labour will be slaughtered. Labour’s best hope of getting in ,is to go full remain
Or, here's a thought, try put right all the devastating things the Tories have done very much under the EU's watch.
The electorate don’t want it.
You can only estimate that. You can't and shouldn't state it as fact.
TBH a lot of red lines have been assumed on the back of a tick box for in/out.
Who really knows what the electorate wants.
I wonder what effect that quote will have? After all remained a now have nowhere to go, and there are a lot of us...
However it must be pointed out that 2nd ref in the event of no acceptable deal is still Labour policy.
Edit - what's the point… it won't hit home for some 'till April, will it.
very much under the EU’s watch.
Don't understand this bit.
The March 29 date with just be extended, if there is one thing the EU is famous for it is kicking the can down the road (all the time). Combined with the fact the there was a 2 year arbitrary time limit on a thing that no-one has ever actually done before.
The idea that not voting Labour is a "barmy protest" is, well, barmy. I'm not voting Labour because I disagree with their brexit policy.
The whole Jezza thing is irrelevant to me in one way, though. I will vote Labour at the next election because that is what will do the most damage to the Tories. Not that it really matters as I live in a constituency where you could shave a baboon and stick a blue rosette on it and it would win.
The thing is, we don’t need to have polarized politics. The neoliberal consensus (dirty word nowadays, I know) actually worked for the majority of people the majority of the time. I know that is apparently no longer possible now spiteful minorities at both ends of the scale have decided to have a showdown and to hell with the collateral damage.
The better half (works for the nhs... I know, how dare she) has gone through the "settled status" trial and it (surprisingly) went fine.
The app was able to check her tax and NI contributions to prove she had been here 5+ years and got an email the next day to confirm she was accepted.
This hasn't eased my concerns about brexit but I will admit that it's a huge weight off our shoulders. But not sure how it'll cope once it goes live.
I just wish I had a garden so I could have started to grow my own veg before march..
First Google result on Corbyn's current (19 hours ago) Brexit view:
https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1222/1018755-brexit/
What Corby hasn't understood is that the window for negotiation ended with the gilets jaunes and fdp successes. I'm well placed to feel the mood of continental Europeans towards Brexit negotiations and have paraphrased them above. There's been a move from initial dismay and a wish for damage limitation and towards looking after Europe first and if the Brits want to jump out of the club house then there won't be many rushing out to pull on the life net.
Red unicorns
Deleted
The better half (works for the nhs… I know, how dare she) has gone through the “settled status” trial and it (surprisingly) went fine.
Yep my wife used it too and it was very good. Got result within 3 hours (and £65). Guess it won't be as smooth for her mother who hasn't worked for 40 years so the true test is how hard they make it to prove you have been here (Windrush anyone)
The way you lot are talking you'd think he was a member of the ERG with a rabid anti-EU at all costs stance. However this is what he said:
Asked what stance Labour would take if a referendum were held, he said: "It would be a matter for the party to decide what the policy would be; but my proposal at this moment is that we go forward, trying to get a customs union with the EU, in which we would be able to be proper trading partners."
Seems like a nuanced position is too complicated for some 🙂
The idea that not voting Labour is a “barmy protest” is, well, barmy. I’m not voting Labour because I disagree with their brexit policy.
So who are you voting for then and how is that going to help to not having the Tories in power (assuming you don't want the Tories in power) ?
Theres a pretty good chance that the UK will have some sort of coalition govt for the next 10 - 15 years (unless Lab or Tories have some hidden statesmen hidden away that can gain the confidence of the voters), so the public have to wrap their heads around tactical voting.
If you wouldnt touch labour due to corbyn then what party is number 2 in your area? What party is number 3? It'll either be Tories with the DUP or Labour with the LD's/Greens/SNP. Sadly this kind of thinking isn't easy due to FPTP but the parties need to start educating their voters.
The only way to get a peoples vote with labour is via a coalition agreement.
To be honest there is next to no chance of anyone unseating the Tories in my constituency but I will not be part of the "80% that voted for pro brexit parties".
Looks like even the most deluded Momentum lemmings are realising that he’s a false prophet who isn’t actually on their side at all...
Corbyn faces furious Labour backlash for backing Brexit
Just a pity they didn’t allow themselves to see the glaringly obvious 3 years ago
And again, for the thousandth time, he can't be seen as going against the referendum vote so has to go along with going for Brexit. In reality he won't be able to do anything more than May but you can hardly say that can you if you are hoping to take her place.
Why kerley? He can certainly offer a referendum on whatever deal he negotiates if he wanted to. There will be a few angry nutters but they will be angry at any brexit deal anyway because it won't be the fantasy brexit that they imagined.
What I want him to do is what he’s repeatedly said he’d do, and what won him the leadership: represent the views of Labour Party members.
His answer to everything, when challenged by his MP’s is to say that that’s what he’s doing.
Aye... when it suits. As long as they agree with him. When they don’t? He suddenly loses his passion for representative party democracy
He should be reflecting the views of his members, by his own much vaunted principle
He’s not! He’s doing the very opposite.
He’s a self-serving fraud!
But at least this is now pretty obvious to all but the most terminally dense of his following
He’s not the messiah, he’s...
Anyhow the Tories are going for no deal. There's more and more evidence pointing to it:
As for Venezuela, there but for EU membership goes Britain. Consider for a moment what would have happened wothout EU membership. Those Japanese companies would never have invested in Britain. The pharma companies wouldn't have boomed, the city wouldn't have had passports. Britian would have run on North Sea oil until it ran out and then run out of money to pay for food imports.
