we want to be like Switzerland”??
Schengen.
Yes, I realised this. So the reality is that any post-Brexit free trade agreement the UK has with the EU will likely require freedom of movement.
That's a terribly misleading article that Cougar has linked to.
Eg:
how the hell is talking about what Labour's position would be in a second referendum compatible with the absolutist stance from the article headline that "Brexit would go ahead"?
It's entirely compatible, because as has been explained repeatedly, if labour wins an election there will be no second referendum. It's there in black and white in their agreed policy. The 2nd ref discussed in the article means a ref under a tory govt, that's the only scenario that labour policy currently allows for.
Corbyn’s ‘policy’ is that if they win a general election (they won’t) they’ll go back to Brussels and ask nicely for their ‘cake and eat it’ Brexit, which they’ll immediately be granted, just because they’re not David Davis.
Basically it’s an insult to the intelligence of anyone who hasn’t spent the last 24 hours smoking crack
https://twitter.com/labourpress/status/1075362582960189440
So, there you have it from the Labour Party - Brussels won't renegotiate.
We can have Mays Brexit, No Deal or A50.
We can have Mays Brexit, No Deal or A50.
Yes, Mays deal is off, No Deal is off and majority of MPs are against so revoke A50 is only option left
Still offering 5/1 at a couple of bookies...
Not entirely, that's on the basis of the Tory's redlines and negotiating stance. Brussels might be prepared to renegotiate on the basis of different starting position from the UK side. But that wouldn't happen in 3 months and would have to also include therefore a delay or revoke and start over.
But Corbyn has put red lines down already. He's said that freedom of movement will end. Thats a red line. And as the EU must be getting very bored of endlessly repeating: the 4 freedoms of the EU are indivsable. So no freedom of movement, no single market or customs union. It really is that simple. As Jezza would find out on Day 1 of negotiations
But the rest of his policy*, such as it is, is equally nonsensical. Being part of 'a' cutoms union, but not 'the' customs union. Retaining tariff-free acess to the single market without being actually part of the single market
Utter nonsense the lot of it! Cloud-cuckooland unicorn-based cobblers! Like I said.. an insult to everyones intelligence.
Which is why labour, faced with an utter shambles opposite them, have failed to capitalise with voters. Because people aren't that daft. We now all know that a 'cake and eat it' Brexit is impossible. Yet that is exactly what Corbyn is saying he's going to deliver
yeah, right....
Even someone who's been smoking crack for the last 24 hours can see straight through that one
* the word is used advisedly in this instance and does not denote anything that would survive first contact with the real world
Not entirely, that’s on the basis of the Tory’s redlines and negotiating stance. Brussels might be prepared to renegotiate on the basis of different starting position from the UK side.
But you just made that up.
What Corbyn has just done, is give TM deal the best chance to get through.
Corbyn is a frigging idiot. He's got no business being politician.
Agree with sandwich, he’s just blown up his credibility by pushing for brexit at any cost.
At any cost? I read that he wants to be in the customs union. So that's not Brexit at any cost, is it? They keep saying they aim to protect jobs first, which again means it's not at any cost.
I know you're disappointed, I am too, but don't throw logic out of the window. Otherwise you're no better than the hard right loonies.
No, not made up.... it's a view held in several quarters, example
If May's deal can't get through, and No Deal is unpalatable to both sides, then I still see a potential to press pause (however that is actually accomplished) and go back. And if the UK went back with different requirements - which may not yet be on the table because both Tories and Labour are still posturing over their red lines; and if (big IF) reality finally bit - then I'm sure there could be a different negotiation leading to a different deal being offered.
I can see a situation arising where May, faced with the abyss of no deal, suggests revoking or suspending Article 50. Her party would go into meltdown, obviously, but I could also see Corbyn trying to whip his MPs to vote against it too, rather than risk the Brexit he’s always wanted. In which case both parties would dissolve into anarchy
I could also see Corbyn trying to whip his MPs to vote against it too
There's another option - #labstain
Frankie Boyle on Brexit and other stuff.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/22/frankie-boyle-review-2018-forget-brexit
Meanwhile look who'll be giving the alternative Christmas message.
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/dec/21/danny-dyer-to-present-channel-4s-alternative-christmas-message?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Christ alive, that Guardian article makes for depressing reading. We really are truly ****ed. Well done Jeremy.
Here's a thought - if there were to be a pre March GE with Tory & Labour officially supporting Brexit then what chance of the People's Vote MPs coalescing into a choice on the ballot paper? I know the libdems are the largest current option that offer this but for many they are still tainted by the coalition fallout.
Corbyn is a plonker, no doubt, but we shouldn’t get sidetracked.
Brexit is a Tory-caused, Tory-led weapons grade balls up. Brexit would not have happened under a Labour government as, although they do have a euro-split in their party and support, it has never been at the frankly unhinged and obsessive levels of the Tories.
You can bash Jezza on Brexit all you like, but every time you kick him, you should be kicking the Tories twice if not more.
We all know that Brexit is Tory party fault but Labour policy is not different.
Corbyn is not a plonker. He just doesn't want the same things as you. He is a very rare thing which is a politician that really does give a shit. Brexit or not, that is a huge thing. Can you imagine having a government committed to social policies? No, me neither. But it might be within reach.
BUT I am also committed to the EU. So this means that the UK political system had failed me since I cannot vote for anyone that will represent my views and has a chance of power. I have to compromise.
But then again, what is the choice? I'm not being asked to choose between EU or social government, because both of the main parties in my constituency are pro leave.
What to do...?
I can see a situation arising where May, faced with the abyss of no deal, suggests revoking or
suspending Article 50
It's all in the game y'all... I've been saying this all along. All it's going to accomplish is the money the public has already had to spent goes into the pockets of the rich.
So Labour claims that 60% of their voters want to Remain, then Jeremy suggests he supports Brexit. You are correct, he isn't a plonker.
And lots of people want to vote for a politician that represents there own views, Jeremy has now suggested in the Guardian article that he wants what 60% of Labour voters don't want. Does Jeremy have a cunning plan?
There's no cunning plan. There never was.
This is just a bunch of ****less British politicians protecting thier own interests whilst everything else goes to hell.
When are the clever people in the background or whatever THM used to call them going to jump out with a cunning plan?
JK Rowling having some fun with this too..
https://news.sky.com/story/jk-rowling-leads-criticism-of-jeremy-corbyn-over-brexit-with-biblical-tweets-11589016
Me too. He got me voting for Labour at a GE election for the first time
And by contrast I’m the absolute opposite. I won’t vote Labour again until he and Momentum are gone. I’m the middle ground Campbell knows Labour need to appeal to. Without that appeal they’ll be in opposition indefinitely.
Hey, I've admitted I was wrong! Won't be doing it again under this leadership.
And by contrast I’m the absolute opposite. I won’t vote Labour again until he and Momentum are gone
Who do people such as yourself go to now. Tories have lurched right, labour left and the LibDems have evaporated.
You now face the possibility of handing seats to Tories by not voting Labour. Are you happy to do that?
Like I said, the system is crap.
anagalliis_arvensis
When are the clever people in the background or whatever THM used to call them going to jump out with a cunning plan?
Sadly the only clever plan is Scotland's independence lifeboat.
We don't really want to see you guys up the creek without a paddle.
You now face the possibility of handing seats to Tories by not voting Labour
Yup. Not voting for anyone, whether parliamentary candidate or party leader, who helped Brexit. I don't trust their judgment and don't want them representing me. Fully aware that means my vote might not count when it comes to parliamentary seats… but I will from now on be voting on principle. I've seen what the Labour leadership have done in my name, with my vote, and I will not be one of the "80% of people who voted for a party supporting Brexit" again.
Ive literally lost the will to argue online on other forums or FB with Brexiters flawed lets leave at whatever cost. Its just pointless. I almost want us to leave with no deal to prove them wrong and feel the pain of it.. but it wont whatever happens it wont be their fault. Its always the fault of the EU, or the foreigners, or anyone else.
If the SNP choose to field candidates south of the border they'd probably do quite well.
AA - who to vote for is indeed a quandary. I voted LD last time and my wife green. No main party we believe in any more so went with our principles.
You now face the possibility of handing seats to Tories by not voting Labour. Are you happy to do that?
Yes, since the alternative is handing seats to Labour, who I don't trust on brexit any more than the tories. Simple as that. Change the leader, or even change the policy, and it would be a different matter. Compared to the decades of shit that brexit will heap on our heads, a few more years of austerity, or whatever other delights the tories have in store, is basically down below the noise floor as far as I'm concerned.
Listen to Rees-Mogg being corrected for misrepresentation on the backstop by Joanna Cherry (SNP)
Looks like our local Labour MP (remainer) is gearing up to run as an independent. He may be deselected as he backs a second referendum. We have Airbus and Rolls Royce locally which Brexit would shaft. Danger would be a split Labour vote would allow in a Tory Exiter.
That “80% of people who voted for a party supporting Brexit” is really coming back to bite us. It's been quoted to me by my Labour MP as part of the reason why she can't do anything about Brexit even though she supports Remain. It's really frustrated me that 16 million people have not had any effective representation in Parliament. The lack of leadership in challenging what they're doing is one of the main reason the Government have been able to get us so far down the road to chaos.
You now face the possibility of handing seats to Tories by not voting Labour.
Vote for whoever has the best chance of beating the Tories in your seat.
Corbyn is not a plonker. He just doesn’t want the same things as you.
Presumptuous. Unfortunately he’s a leaver, and therefore wrong.
Whatever your wants and desires he just doesn’t play it right often enough. May and the Tories are there to be held up to ridicule over and over again, yet he muffs his lines over and over again.
I know there is a lot to be said for spontaneity, but a good advisor would have him knocking in the goals for fun at the moment.
but a good advisor would have him knocking in the goals for fun at the moment.
Like what?
Are you suggesting he say whatever will win the most support? Isn't that what he was being criticised for earlier in the thread?
For all you know that's exactly what he's done - maybe his advisers have done the maths and called this the best course of action.
AA it’s LD. I live in one of the safest Tory seats that voted overwhelmingly to Remain but has a Leave MP. I vote to register my disapproval.
or even change the policy
So Labour switch to remain and lose 30% of their vote to Tories and get wiped out. Then we get Brexit anyway but it's neoliberal low tax **** the poor UKofA. Still a good idea?
Why do you keep on making that silly claim? Do you think that repeated assertion makes it true?
AA it’s LD. I live in one of the safest Tory seats that voted overwhelmingly to Remain but has a Leave MP. I vote to register my disapproval.
Pretty much the same as me in the last election. I'd vote for a stuffed pig if it could beat the Tories.
