The Customs gutys they interviewed on Channel 4 news last night just laughed at the idea of putting customs checks in place at Dover for EU goods in the same manner as non-EU.
Putting that kind of infrastructure in place, including training the staff, would take years according to him
Can i vote leave now...
Or
The sausage roll song
Several senior Labour figures have expressed reservations about a second referendum in recent days – including the shadow education secretary, Angela Rayner, who said it would be seen as a betrayal by leave voters.
this is what Corbyn has to deal with - while on the other side he is getting pressure to go for a second referendum by folk such as Ummuna who keep on threatening to split the party and for a new grouping unless corbyn goes flat out for a second referendum.
Politics is about what is possible - and winning a vote of confidence at the moment is not.
This SO24 debate that's currently going on in Parliament, is there a reason Jeremy Corbyn's not there?
There’ll be no reason to do any more Customs checks than we do now. The tricky bit is that EU goods would now require a customs declaration. I’m told it takes about 20 minutes and costs about £20 to make a customs declaration and I don’t think anybody has yet worked out how that supposed to work at Dover
As above C4 News did this yesterday. The assessment of the head honcho of the customs agents firm when asked what the effect would be was 'armageddon', suggesting it takes 18 months to train a customs agent and they will need five times more than they have now.
Yeah, but, for balance, the Legatum/IEA guy said it would all be fine.
Ah balance, the end of calling somebody a ****ing idiot on national TV.
She’s not a stupid woman
She’s a ****ing dumb ****
Interesting view on the IEA here....
revealed-charity-watchdog-probes-pro-brexit-anti-nhs-think-tank
They don't sound very "balanced" there...
Just had my annual tax breakdown thingy through from the HMR, shows I payed about 50 quid to EU contributions....50 quid, I'm an Englishman living in the South Wales valleys...my life is made better on a daily basis by EU funding, the absolute jewel in the crown* of the town I live in was built with EU funding...for 50 quid a year.
But, but foreigners on benefits....yeah I know.
This from the BMA: "The BMA is keen to stress that no section of the health service will go unaffected by Brexit"
They don’t sound very “balanced” there…
They are just a hard right lobby group masquerading as a "think tank" with a bunch of shadowy financial supporters. Considering the company they keep eg brexit central and taxpayers alliance its not exactly surprising they come out with such careful research.
The point he was making is that we will carry on as we are which is pretty much what the EU are setting up for. Continue with custom as it is now, continue with trade as it is now. Not indefitenly of course but the the EU will save us from ourselves. No doubt they will still be seen as the nasty EU by the Brexiters...
They are just a hard right lobby group masquerading as a “think tank” with a bunch of shadowy financial supporters. Considering the company they keep eg brexit central and taxpayers alliance its not exactly surprising they come out with such careful research.
Agreed... the trouble is that if news programs, desperate to provide "balance" to their viewers call on these crackpots for their views, then they immediately legitimise them. Folk then hear an 'expert' telling them, what they want to hear, that a no deal Brexit will be good for the country on the TV and it re-enforces their, already skewed beliefs...
Unless someone finds a way of cutting through all of the crap and propaganda, we will always be seriously divided as a nation and this nightmare may never end, irrespective of whether we do eventually leave, or not or have a second ref or not or just end up staying in. There are decades of propaganda to undo?
Are we screwed whatever happens?
The point he was making is that we will carry on as we are which is pretty much what the EU are setting up for. Continue with custom as it is now, continue with trade as it is now. Not indefitenly of course but the the EU will save us from ourselves. No doubt they will still be seen as the nasty EU by the Brexiters…
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46617152
Article on the BBC detailing EU's no deal plan... doesn't look like they are looking to continue with customs and trade as it is now - quite the contrary...
That fella on the news was talking shite it seems to me?
We were screwed back in 2016....
The level of screwing has increased...
We who wish to remain are screwed...
My kids are screwed...
To unscew this will take three or more generations....
The lunatics have taken over the asylum
This from the BMA: “The BMA is keen to stress that no section of the health service will go unaffected by Brexit”
Finally, the truth about the extra 350 million a week has reached the Libtards.
Oh what, they meant negative effects?
Kerley, you believe obvious lies from obvious liars. Sad really.
For avoidance of doubt, anyone working for Legatum or IEA, never mind both, is as untrustworthy as they get. My comment about "balance" was sarcasm.
It’s just been re-stated on Channel 4 news, yet again, by an EU spokesman that in the event of a no deal Brexit customs checks would apply immediately at the borders.
Once again the nonchalant “it’ll all be fine” statements made by Brexiteers and their dodgy ‘thinktanks’ are exposed as being total and complete bollocks!
The problem is that there are enough half-wits in this country who take it at face value. Which is why we’re in this mess in the first place!
that in the event of a no deal Brexit customs checks would apply immediately.
Dunno about that or at least not on the UK side. Since our glorious leaders havent bothered doing that boring preparation thing might just have to go with open borders due to lack of staff.
are exposed as being total and complete bollocks!
Again would have to disagree. You just missed the muffled "it’ll all be fine for us. you plebs will be screwed but we will be quids in".
The problem is that there are enough half-wits in this country who take it at face value. Which is why we’re in this mess in the first place!
Nah the EU will blink, cause they do don't they, that's how it's going to work, we are worth so much more to them
I had gathered that Kelvin - we are in full agreement.
My point was that if folk who just make up shite are allowed on the TV and their views are portrayed as expert facts, then there are a large number of folks out there who will believe it to be true...
This is how we ended up how we are and if we don't want oldmanmtb's prediction up there ^ to come true, then however much we discuss this on here and elsewhere, we do nothing to un-entrench (is that even a word?) peoples hard line views. (I speak with quite a few folks who voted leave and they have all sorts of "facts" to back up their opinions and are certain that they are right - they won and we lost after all)
Whilst I am keen to cancel Brexit altogether or have a second referendum or whatever, if we still end up split roughly half and half across the country, then this nightmare will never actually end.
Well we are now creating guidance for clients on data protection management if there is a no deal brexit.
Potentially its a bloody nightmare....
We will make good money but i would rather do without.
Nah the EU will blink, cause they do don’t they, that’s how it’s going to work, we are worth so much more to them
Well that's what David Davis says and we all know he's dead smart.
I'm reluctantly coming to the conclusion that No Deal is going to be better than the so-called Deal (that really isn't a deal). Given that the Deal is only about a transition period, and that we don't know what we will be transitioning to, we face another 2-3 years of the same paralysis and politicking with business and organisations unable to really make any plans. And no doubt any changes and negotiations will be at least as protracted. As least No Deal gets all of that over and done with on 29th March 2019
Dunno about that or at least not on the UK side. Since our glorious leaders havent bothered doing that boring preparation thing might just have to go with open borders due to lack of staff.
Sorry for stating the bleedin' obvious but I think they might be referring to customs checks in the other direction?
Major delays at EU customs might have an effect on our exports. Welsh Lamb for instance... given that the animals are alive when we send them over?
Having said that the 40% tariff on Lamb will probably stop that ever becoming a problem aye?
Scotroutes, my view on day one of this was that the lawyers would win, whatever happens. 30 years of EU law to untangle, crank up the fax machines to def con one!
In theory there have always been customs operating in both the EU and the UK during UK memebership. The EU ones are all but invisible though and tend to operate mobile and nationwide rather than just at crossing points. I've never been checked entering the EU but frequently stopped entering the UK (In a white van on French plates) and on a couple of occasions they've been dicks about it, for example accusing me of having bikes for sale when we had 5 bikes for three people, they were for a while unconvinced by the idea we needed different bikes for triathlon and MTB racing until race entries were produced. On the other hand I transported a car and caravan full up to the weight limit with tandems for sale into France and no-one batted an eyelid.
The ease of entering the EU will progressively fall away. Just as UK customs delight in earning their days' wages by presenting the people with vans full of booze with bills EU customs will hand out bills for whatever is not covered by whatever new deal is devised.
Sorry for stating the bleedin’ obvious but I think they might be referring to customs checks in the other direction?
I was, mostly, just using it as an excuse to comment about the idiots in charge. Leaving all the finer points about pros and cons of EU membership I selected remain on the grounds this lot would screw it up. I have to say despite how people comment on my cynical and maybe negative outlook on life (I prefer to think planning for the worse and being surprised when I dont need it is actually a positive overall but anyway) this lot have managed to surprise me in how badly it has gone.
my view on day one of this was that the lawyers would win, whatever happens
They normally do. Well outside of the poor sods with a conscience who go into public service or alternatively act as defence for poor people. Those who dont bother with that morality shit will be quids in.
my view on day one of this was that the lawyers would win, whatever happens
Undertakers too probably, but that will be poor people first so some new economy service might be needed
I was, mostly, just using it as an excuse to comment about the idiots in charge. Leaving all the finer points about pros and cons of EU membership I selected remain on the grounds this lot would screw it up. I have to say despite how people comment on my cynical and maybe negative outlook on life (I prefer to think planning for the worse and being surprised when I dont need it is actually a positive overall but anyway) this lot have managed to surprise me in how badly it has gone.
I'm with you there, very similar views myself... however I am not really surprised in any way at how badly it has gone given the success rates of any other medium to large scale government project over the last couple of decades.
Major delays at EU customs might have an effect on our exports. Welsh Lamb for instance… given that the animals are alive when we send them over?
Having said that the 40% tariff on Lamb will probably stop that ever becoming a problem aye?
There was a farming representative on R4 at the weekend saying that it will be catastrophic for many and that Defra (unconfirmed) might have plans for large-scale slaughter of livestock as export vet controls won't be in place in time and to prevent it being dumped on the UK market, driving down prices putting many out of business. Over 80% of UK meat production is exported to EU - automatic WTO tariffs will make it more expensive. When questioned about "project fear" he simply said as a farmer, this was his reality.
There was a farming representative on R4 at the weekend saying that it will be catastrophic for many and that Defra (unconfirmed) might have plans for large-scale slaughter of livestock as export vet controls won’t be in place in time and to prevent it being dumped on the UK market, driving down prices putting many out of business. Over 80% of UK meat production is exported to EU – automatic WTO tariffs will make it more expensive. When questioned about “project fear” he simply said as a farmer, this was his reality.
I don't doubt this. Which makes it even more baffling that farming communities were such strong brexit voters.
however I am not really surprised in any way at how badly it has gone given the success rates of any other medium to large scale government project over the last couple of decades.
Even by those standards it is special. I would also caveat the "large scale government project" with "something almost entirely outsourced to the usual private sector spivs".
Which makes it even more baffling that farming communities were such strong brexit voters.
My knowledge of the area is limited (Welshfarmer for example would be better) but from private eye etc it seems like how CAP was managed throughout the UK (its devolved for Scotland and I think Wales and NI) is less than ideal and the relevant authorities have gone for the obvious solution of hinting its the EU to blame and not them.
Plus for certain parts of the farming community there is the problem that the EU actually expects some standards which they would prefer not to deal with. Especially as some other farmers in other EU countries manage to dodge them.
Haha
Someone once told me to never let somebody else's lack of planning become my crisis...
Folks used to hold up the Nimrod project as fine example of piss poor project management.
Oh well, we've got ourselves an even better example of how not to do it now. Only this time the stakes are even higher.
Farmers aren't exactly famed for their intelligence.
No doubt they got fed the same load of guff that the rest of the population have done over the last few decades. If there were indeed issues with the way that CAP is managed, then they will have been happy to put 2 and 2 together and come up with 47.
Farmers aren’t exactly famed for their intelligence.
Well this farmer has a PhD and my neighbour has a first class honours so I resent that comment. I guess you don't actually know many farmers other than those portrayed in Viz magazine perhaps
as Welshfarmer has pointed out before it was 60% farmers so just about on par with the general population? Anyone else vote by profession?
Some farmers are true blue tories, some are not, some are big land owners other are tenants set to leave with nothing. Varied bunch there really.
Agriculture, as noted previously has effectively been heavily supported by EU funded subsidies for the past 40 odd years (and by UK money before that) to the extent that many UK farmers are sick to death of the feeling of being held hostage to the whims of the next new policy to come along and the subsequent 1000 page book of rules and regs that go with it. Break the rules and lose the sub and get fined as well. There is hardly a single aspect of agriculture in the EU which isn't heavily influenced by (ussually unpopular) regulations of some kind or another. And EVERY SINGLE TIME a new one comes along there has ALWAYS been nothing the UK Government can do about it as it has come from "Brussels". The men from Defra will shrug their shoulders, say sorry, but it is EU rules so nothing they can do. It is no wonder that many farmers have grown to hate the EU. But coupled with that is the example of New Zealand which is always put forward as some sort of utopian model where subsidies were dropped over night and, after a few years of adjustment, only the most efficient farmers were left in business and were competitive on a world wide scale without any help from the authorities. So you have 2 distinct groups of farmers who voted for Brexit for different reasons.
1. Those who believe all the rules and regs they have to abide by are down to the EU. These are the deluded ones who do not realise that out of the EU those self same rules and regs will still be there.
2. Those dynamic and enterprising farmers who really believe that they could capitalise on a free-market, subsidy free environment when only the strong would survive.
I could write essays on this stuff, and have done so in the past.
Undertakers too probably, but that will be poor people first so some new economy service might be needed
Or Soylent Green perhaps.
Well this farmer has a PhD and my neighbour has a first class honours so I resent that comment.
There is a quite well known Cumbrian hill farmer with an Oxford degree too.
2. Those dynamic and enterprising farmers who really believe that they could capitalise on a free-market, subsidy free environment when only the strong would survive.
Will they slaughter their sheep and start growing kiwi fruit instead?
Anyway, joking aside, prepare for a polytunnel covered Southern England.
There is hardly a single aspect of agriculture in the EU which isn’t heavily influenced by (ussually unpopular) regulations of some kind or another. And EVERY SINGLE TIME a new one comes along there has ALWAYS been nothing the UK Government can do about it as it has come from “Brussels
What are the rules, and why are they so hated? I cant imagine these rules and regulations are all a complete waste of time. Also what will UK farming be like when we ditch these rules?
As someone who knows nothing about farming, am I likely to think these are good regulations from the standpoint of a consumer?
