The ongoing uselessness of the total waste of space that is Jeremy Corbyn from the Irish Times
It would have been lovely to have had an actual opposition for the last few years, but instead we’ve got...
Even with 2nd référendum, who and what party will support Remain?
You are ****ed.
With a choice between Mays deal and remain, the stated preference of many is to remain. But I do share your concern.
It is pathetic really, corbyn really needs to take a poop or get off the potty.
And do what? You seem to have overlooked that there isn't a fag paper of difference between Maybot's deal and the Labour leadership. Corbyn is a "leaver". To think he will support a new referendum is delusion.
Ok lets just leave then and er well er
Like new zealand did re jig our economy for tourism, we have the infrastructure for that
Dont we?
I agree with DrJ and cchris2lou.
Corbyn had the opportunity to provide leadership to the country but has failed. Corbyn is a Brexiteer and knows that his party don't agree with him so is happy to let May **** the country.
A 2nd ref with produce bigger divisions within the UK. May will get her WA through parliament and then quit, the following General Election will be interesting as there will be nobody with a shred of decency left to vote for.
Sad times.
Basically decide in your head what Corbyn want but unless he does an under tha table deal with may and manages to whip his mp's it will make no difference.
No confidence in the pm exposes the DUP and erg properly as spineless duplicitous cretins (not everyone believed it before)
No confidence in the government would have failed at this point. That option is now saved until later.
Next up is mays vote on her deal, it's going to fail.
What happens next is very important, cabinet ministers are pushing for free votes, that is the time where no confidence is an option. That is when alternatives can be debated and if needed the parliamentary agenda needs removing from May. If she is shutting down here cabinet then she is in real. Trouble of losing a vonc.
As much as people hate the idea of another referendum beyond a conclusive vote in Parliament what is there. It is then where a sensible framing of the question is made and the deals explained in detail honestly.
I'll ask again. What would you have Corbyn do at this point. I have asked this of the Corbyn haters several times and no one has given an answer other than banal generalities.
His party is as divided as the tories and he cannot risk losing a confidence vote.
So what would you have him do?
So what would you have him do?
Accept that hes never ever ever going to be PM by any election unless its by default and move on
I'd have Corbyn act in the best interest of those who voted for him. That would involve explaining to those that voted for him that the Tory oppostion was taking the uK down a path that would lead to hardship for the vast majority of Labour voters, and a removal of rights and a right to justice that are in their interest. I'd have him resign as his personal history is incompatible with leading a campaign to remain in the EU. I'd have him admit publicly that he had been wrong about Europe for the last 45 years because he had never bothered to consider the positive aspects of it for Labour voters and that the revelations of the past two years had brought him to his senses.
No chance, Corbyn is one of the enemy. A hard Brexiter, and that's unlikely to change in time to do any good.
Anything, something, anything at all, apart from the nothing he is doing doing at the moment. Lead the opposition party and challenge the government perhaps? His inaction might cost him dear at the next general election.
If TM as tory leader, is unable to lead the tories then she should quit. Should Jeremy do the same? Both political party's are an utter disgrace.
Call an actual VONC instead of whatever it was he called for? Throw himself behind a 2nd referendum? Aggressively back a series of free votes? Lay out an actual alternative plan (or just be ****ing honest and start pointing out the obvious that there is no alternative plan).
Do something, anything, just stop standing aside waiting for what he really wants which is a no deal brexit.
I’ll ask again. What would you have Corbyn do at this point. I have asked this of the Corbyn haters several times and no one has given an answer other than banal generalities.
And I'll ask you, what has JC actually done in his time as leader of the opposition?. I'm not a Corbyn hater, I quite like the guy, he seems a genuinely decent guy, but in the bigger picture, he's seen as inept up against the worst Tory government in history. Quite an achievement, that.
Can you imagine John Smith, or even that **** Blair being as irrelevant as leader of the official opposition? No, me neither.
Anything, something, anything at all, apart from the nothing he is doing doing at the moment.
Sometimes the best thing is to do nothing and this is one of those times. He is in the same position as May with a split electorate meaning whatever he does is wrong. I think Labour have done well generally by letting Tories dig themselves deeper and deeper. If/when an election opportunity arises Labour can then do what they did last time and build up support but now against a Tory party that would have less support due to the Brexit mess.
And yet they're losing support.
Let's just say that again. Somehow, in the face of the most under-fire PM in memory, he is losing support. How is that even possible?
Sometimes the best thing is to do nothing and this is one of those times.
Tick. Tock.
He is in the same position as May with a split electorate meaning whatever he does is wrong.
But, of course, Labour voters and members are not up for the no deal smash industry and ignore the outer world style exit… Tory members and voters are. So if stalemate in Parliament results in that, it is likely that Labour will lose support more than the Tories do. One Leader is playing to her audience. The other is ignoring his.
TJ, I'd have had him speak truth to power and argue for remain. Just think how much further on we might be by now if he'd done that for the past two years. It's not like the Tories were ever going to agree on any sort of a sane deal in the meantime.
Let’s just say that again. Somehow, in the face of the most under-fire PM in memory, he is losing support. How is that even possible?
Because overall brexit in any of its form is only popular with a tiny minority, if you support one or none then you are unpopular.
In terms of tick tock....
The PM has the timetable.
I’ll ask again. What would you have Corbyn do at this point.
I get the game he's playing, I just dispair at it all. That it's come to the point where politicians won't openly say what they think.
Labour are just as bad as the Conservatives in that they are all playing games whilst the world burns.
Well r4 today just have JRM on sounding like a comedy interview.
And yet they’re losing support.
Let’s just say that again. Somehow, in the face of the most under-fire PM in memory, he is losing support. How is that even possible?
No they are not, remember how the last election went. If another election is called then the same will be done again and support will be built up again. No point wasting energy on it outside of that time as just fighting against a biased media for no gain.
I’ll ask again. What would you have Corbyn do at this point.
Something. Anything. If he wants to deliver Brexit, he should endorse May's deal. It's a shit sandwich, but there is nothing better out there except Remain. His six test Brexit has just as many unicorns as any hard right Tory fantasy. It is non-deliverable, and is simply there as a stick to beat the government with.
If he truly does not think May's deal will do, he should wholeheartedly back Remain.
There comes a point when he should start acting like a PM in waiting and stop simply watching the Tories implode, as it has long since stopped being entertaining on a party political level.
Imagine John Smith tearing into this issue, or Blair, or even Brown. Hell, even Milliband would be making a better fist of this.
A lot of what he says makes sense in the normal toing and froing of politics. These are not normal times. This is a national crisis, and requires leadership from somewhere. He is not a leader.
No they are not, remember how the last election went. If another election is called then the same will be done again and support will be built up again. No point wasting energy on it outside of that time as just fighting against a biased media for no gain.
Are you saying they're only popular when they're trying to be popular? At other times it's just too much effort?
What would you have Corbyn do at this point.
Resign?
As a former member of this forum said - "we lost, get over it".
As a former member of this forum said – “we lost, get over it”.
The unresolved question is 'how badly are you prepared to lose?'
Corbyn is unelectable in the UK as it stands.
He should have resigned.
Corbyn is unelectable in the UK as it stands.
He should have resigned.
That's what people said before the last election - Tory landslide was predicted here ....
That’s what people said before the last election – Tory landslide was predicted here ….
He wasn't elected tho - we are in massively strange times, this issue is beyond whatever colour you are in parliament. As others have said - even if Corbyn was a staunch remainer, then to come out as the leader of a split party would be political suicide.
Labour are currently a massively ineffectual opposition, all the problems in the Tory party aren't from Labour turning the screw on the deal, or their actions, they are all self inflicted wounds. It's a complete meltdown. We need a reset.
Tories still in power though. It doesn't matter if gap is 50 or 10 points in the poll.
It doesn’t matter if gap is 50 or 10 points in the poll.
It doesn't affect who is in power. It matters to how much we should trust predictions of who is "unelectable"
He can't force a GE so he can't be elected.
As simple as that.
He can’t force a GE so he can’t be elected.
As simple as that.
Neither could any other Labour leader.
This is a national crisis, and requires leadership from somewhere. He is not a leader.
He can't really do anything. The problem with democracy is that you have to gain support. If he stands up and says 'screw it, we support remain' then he'll lose what, 30% of his voter base? Impossible.
Labour have the same.problem that the Tories have, which is that Brexit split the country on a previously non-existent axis. Both sets of voters are split on this, but not on other issues. It's impossible to solve, the difference is that the Tories are in charge so they are the ones whose neck is on the block. It'd make no sense for Labour to put theirs on as well.
This is about far more than party politics. It's constitutional.
Are you saying they’re only popular when they’re trying to be popular? At other times it’s just too much effort?
It is not worth the effort rather than too much effort. Time and resources are limited so be silly to squander them on trying to get higher in a poll when an election could be years away.
Both sets of voters are split on this, but not on other issues. It’s impossible to solve, the difference is that the Tories are in charge so they are the ones whose neck is on the block. It’d make no sense for Labour to put theirs on as well.
This is about far more than party politics. It’s constitutional.
Exactly. These are contradictory statements. At some point both parties have to realise this is a constitutional issue that transcends party politics, and that means Labour have to stop treating it as an opportunity to watch the Tories making a hash of it. Labour, and the other parties, have to step back from the political games, stop being afraid of what their base vote will think and start doing the basic job of Parliament. In this case the basic job is to ensure that No Deal is avoided.
I don't think a 2nd ref, or a GE, will break the deadlock.
What's the Queen up to these days? Now that would really be 'taking back control'. 😉
Excuse the potentially stupid question, but what happens with the N/S Irish border in a No Deal Brexit Scenario? There would have to be border checks wouldn't there?
The only thing that Corbyn could do now that would be useful is a spot of murder-suicide at the next PM questions.
If he stands up and says ‘screw it, we support remain’ then he’ll lose what, 30% of his voter base?
And pick up as many from the opposition and above all people who currently have no-one to vote for. Anyone who is pro European a wants caring capitalism (because Labour aren't and never were real socialists) has no one to vote for. So they don't vote.
In this case the basic job is to ensure that No Deal is avoided.
Which is exactly what they will do when they vote to revoke A50 in March as the only other option will be to go with No Deal. I literally have money on it (only 5/1 but nevermind)
And pick up as many from the opposition and above all people who currently have no-one to vote for.
Yeah, of course, did you find that one in a cracker?
This is about far more than party politics
Exactly, but Labour / Corbyn are only thinking about party politics. If he had integrity he would resolutely argue for a specific approach, whichever best refelcted the general Labour consensus, even if it risked loosing him soem votes next election. To be honest I think showing strngth and integrity would gain him more votes than he'd lose from people not liking waht solution he comes up with.
edit. so basically what Martin Hutch said ^ while i was type
As someone said further up, I'm in total despair at the general behaviour of the lily-livered politicians at the head of both parties.
Anyone who is pro European a wants caring capitalism (because Labour aren’t and never were real socialists) has non-one to vote for. So they don’t vote.
Liberal party?
If he stands up and says ‘screw it, we support remain’ then he’ll lose what, 30% of his voter base? Impossible.
Ok, so that's the unfounded assertion of a randomer on the internet. Did you have any basis for that claim? How many votes will be gain from such a stance?
Which is exactly what they will do when they vote to revoke A50 in March as the only other option will be to go with No Deal. I literally have money on it (only 5/1 but nevermind)
That was my thought too, but it's starting to get a bit squeaky bum time. Screwing up that vote is well within the competence threshold of this Parliament.
but what happens with the N/S Irish border in a No Deal Brexit Scenario? There would have to be border checks wouldn’t there?
Yes. The unicorn-mongers have dealt with this by saying that they wouldn't introduce checks, and why should the EU...but that is patently bollocks given the lack of customs checks with a third-party state threatens the integrity of the single market.
