Pre the fixed term governments act it would be confidence vote and a new election more than likely.
She's already shown how much respect she has for the Fixed Term Governments Act. Abouts as much as she has for parliamentary sovereignty. Tinpot dictator.
I think Danny Dyer should lead the remain campaign.
It might be interesting to see someone of stature from outside of politics lead a new remain campaign. Attenburgh? Paxman? someone like that
On the news Corbyn seemed to be moaning that the leave people aren't getting what they voted for.
Guess he is easing one of his buttocks slightly off the fence.
Leading the remain effort, what we need is a conviction politician who knows how to play the game
Has he been convicted yet? Thought he was just under investigation.
Oh, you said *conviction*.
So if we had a re-run of the referendum, who would front the remain campaign?
Assuming neither leader of the two main party leaders campaign for Remain… then this could help neutralise the "just give to them politicans a good kicking" element of the Leave vote a bit. Both May and Corbyn are the very definition of career politicians. With every day we trust both of them less.
Search Mike Harding reply to TM on Facebook. Brilliant.
<h1 class="headline">Government admits UK could attempt to unilaterally revoke Article 50 if MPs want to</h1>
Be interesting to watch " we don't want the UK to leave juncker and his pals " to see what they come out with...I bet it's along the lines of we have a new deal (roughly translated to we have the upper hand) take it or leave it.
To Mike Harding, very well done.
I bet it’s along the lines of we have a new deal (roughly translated to we have the upper hand) take it or leave it.
They always had the upper hand.
The only people that belvieved they didnt are the terminally gullibile & continued support for brexit & even vocal support for no deal, shows that millions still believe the BS the Brexiteers fed them.
Meanwhile Putin must be wetting himself watching us autofelate ourselves over brexit as he inexorably claims more of Ukraine, a bit of cash to Arron Banks, a few 1000 pro-brexit facebook adds, best investment he ever made !
The government is arguing that there’s no point in finding out because they’re not doing it.
Who do the government answer to?
Well, looks like the government thinks (admits) that parliament can instruct it to revoke A50 …
(from gov application to Supreme Court to block the case asking ECj to rule on whether revocation could be unilateral, or needs consent from EU and/or other EU countries)
Yep no better deal will be coming from the EU, they don't need to, to flip a phrase "We need them more than they need us"
Spending billions to get no influence and have no say on the future, while becoming the weaker partner in any future trade agreements we sign, sounds like the sort of thing that needs to be on a bus
/quote= what woz said ^up there some pages back /quote
You can't equate the newly enfranchised with those that have actually exercised their right to vote, though.
Personally i think we should have extended the vote, a la the Scotland Indy vote, to the 16+. Anybody newly enfranchised is ipso facto being 'ignored', but we don't really know how, or even if, they'd vote, so it's difficult to quantify in any kind of meaningful manner.
I have always done my best, often under very difficult circumstances, to prevent a Tory government. I have, more often than not, failed in that duty.
What we do know is that the electorate of the UK voted underwhelmingly to leave the EU.
This has made a lot of people very angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad move.
The government has published a list of FORTY benefits of leaving the EU in the manner they have negotiated. Impressive. You can read them all here, where one of our more active and present MEPs has annotated it for us to help us more fiully understand it…
https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/falsehoods-failures-fibs-fabrications/
They always had the upper hand.
They didn't on our original before brexit deal where we got quite a good pile of money and other benefits....now it's irrelevant in some ways Maybot is correct it could possibly be the best deal we are going to get,
If we decide to revoke A50 juncker etc Al could still go Ok there's the deal we just negotiated your original membership is gone with your cushy pre brexit one ..I can't see them going ok let's just go back to how it was somehow.
There would be some serious court based wrangling in that scenario. Although I do agree that the EU would try it, because that's how these things work.
May will reduce immigration
Who the **** in their right mind would want to come to this place now other than to see tower bridge and the queen
Yup she's right migration won't half be reduced now there's evidence we are a ****ing hapless set of twunts.
We will leave the common agricultural area
Is this so the farmers can farm the land that they built that housing for the poor on but used most of it for their developer mates to build executive homes whilst bypassing a few greenbelt laws
If we decide to revoke A50 juncker etc Al could still go Ok there’s the deal we just negotiated your original membership is gone with your cushy pre brexit one ..I can’t see them going ok let’s just go back to how it was somehow.
The upcoming ECJ case should help clarify that.
I can't see them letting us back in without a huge price to be paid. Theres no way we'd simply revert to the terms we had before.
And why should the EU do us any favours?
Its not just what we've done, its the utterly graceless manner in which we've done it. Boris, Davis and the rest of the Brexiteer morons all acting like stroppy teenagers and obnoxiously torching every single bridge as they go. Peppering every statement with lies, insults and exceptionalist petty nationalism
Brexit: May challenges Corbyn to live TV debate
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46355299
I thought she would normally run a mile from this sort of thing?
May is terrible at anything like this, but, somewhat amazingly, Corbyn is even worse.
When it comes to powerful oratory, Corbyn has all the presence of a local council health and safety inspector reading some fire regulations to a room full of bored scaffolders.
May being a robot means that at least she generally tends to get the words in the right order
Brexit: May challenges Corbyn to live TV debate
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46355299
/a>I thought she would normally run a mile from this sort of thing?
Great an hour of her saying the same thing over and over again in a slightly different way.
She has no choice she needs to convince mp it is the right deal.
And against Corbyn, she knows he has no answer.
I don't know if you noticed but May was getting a bit testy in parliament yesterday. Its the first time I've ever seen her betray the slightest hint of genuine human emotion. Ok... that particular human emotion was desperately resisting the urge to tell some reactionary old **** like Bill Cash to STFU, but its progress of sorts.
And against Corbyn, she knows he has no answer.
Well, the same answer. Isn't it traditional that a debate should feature at least two points of view?
Trumps flailing into the matter of trade deals smells fishy, obviously he's not read the 600page document!
Put up to it by his chums Johnson & Farage, no doubt
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;"> https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-nigel-farage-enjoy-13603076</span>
Todays hearing at the ECJ is now over. The UK Governments defence is that clarification on unilateral revocation on Article 50 is only needed if the UK decides it wants to revoke and one of the EU27 object. Plainly, knowing all of the options prior to the "meaningful vote" is considered some form of cheating.
I can’t see them letting us back in without a huge price to be paid. Theres no way we’d simply revert to the terms we had before.
I dunno. It would make sense I think. The EU will look great if one of its biggest members tries to leave just to come crawling back cap in hand.
On the TV debate idea a tough moderator who could call them both out on BS - like any extra money for the NHS etc. would be a good thing. A serious remain voice on the panel could also do some good but May would have nothing to do with that.
Brexit: May challenges Corbyn to live TV debate
Anything is better than a GE from her point of view.
Great an hour of her saying the same thing over and over again in a slightly different way.
And you can draw the same conclusion that anyone with any sense has been drawing since this whole fiasco kicked off.
And why should the EU do us any favours?
Quite - it's not like you can un-kick someone in the nuts.
How are they going to argue when they both want the same thing?
Are they just going to try and out gammon each other?
Oh and the EDL are going to march in favour of Brexit just before the vote.
If in doubt (and a grown up really shouldn't be) look at what the likes of the EDL, Farage et al say and do and then do the polar opposite. Then you'll be on the side of right not wrong.
Are they just going to try and out gammon each other?
It might be worth a watch purely to play 'thinly veiled racist dog whistle quote' bingo......
if may needs UKIP to get her deal through or maybe even a coalition government
Errrr, do UKIP have nay MPs?
Errrr, do UKIP have nay MPs?
No idea but let's imagine it for a moment
How are they going to argue when they both want the same thing?
Are they just going to try and out gammon each other?
A good article in todays Guardian by Rafael Behr:
The seismic shock of Brexit will change the UK’s politics for ever
As he put it:
Labour’s policy is to engineer a general election, win it, then cook up an alchemist Brexit that keeps the benefits of the single market without the obligations of EU membership. The unavailability of that combination has been proven many times.
So... the same cake and eat it nonsense the Torys have had to admit doesn't exist and never will. Corbyns position is just as nonsensical as the Tory's. Their positions are exactly the same (magic fairies and unicorns). Both are totally unachievable and will end up doing untold damage to the UK's future. But they're not allowed to admit that because.... you know... Will of the People and all that.....
Both will go nowhere near the obvious question, which May has dodged countless times:
Will any deal be better than the one we have now? Because we all know the answer is a simple "NO", maybe with a caveat "of course it won't! Are you a complete moron?"
You just know now what Corbyn will do. He'll mumble on about obscure clauses, as he does, in an attempt to bore everyone to death, then try and change the subject on to rural bus timetables or something. May will just do her usual and endlessly repeat meaningless soundbites.
Its quite possible that even amongst the smouldering wreckage of the last few years, this 'debate' could mark a new low for UK democracy
Brexit, Britain’s 21st Century Suez
Its far far worse than Suez. Suez was just an incident that taught us where we are in the grand scheme of things.
The trouble is that the nutters driving Brexit still think we're some temporarily dormant superpower, and they're going to restore that once more. The British Empire will rise again
The upcoming humiliation as that delusional fantasy is brutally exposed by the realities of globalisation will dwarf Suez.
Much like trumpism, brexit still has millions of loyal supporters
they really think 'no deal' will be great for the UK
Brexit, Britain’s 21st Century Suez
This. It's why I sort of have the view that this brexit bollox needs to happen, and it needs to hit hard, despite the pain we will all suffer. Suez demonstrated we were no longer a global military power which could act unilaterally, and from that point forward would have to work with other nations, the result of which being fewer opportunities for war. Brexit will show that we are no longer a global economic power which can operate on it's own. The result hopefully being a more equitable and joined up world which is more able to address the real important problems of things like climate change, population, and unsustainable resource usage etc. It may also snap us out of our little-englander mentality. God knows how low we have to go though for this to happen.
Oh and the EDL are going to march in favour of Brexit just before the vote.
Great, that'll be three angry gammons vs several thousand counter-demonstrators showing where the balance of opinion lies now.