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Raab pushing the bullying line again, is depressing & effective
A lot of people repeating that one, never mind that we chose to leave & the bullying is the EU telling us we can't keep the benefits of membership after we leave. That the Brexiters been pretending there are no benefits, doesn't seem to concern the gullible.
a retired Brexiter was quick to respond, telling them to stop whining and make the best of it, people died in two wars to give us this chance.
I suppose that’s what the Polish pilots in the Battle Of Britain were fighting for, then. So that in the future, the English could tell their descendants who come here to work, to get out of the country...
As soon as anyone mentions Churchill can you please share this.
https://europeanmovement.eu/who-we-are/history/
And I think that half the problem now is that most of those who bang on about the sacrifices made, didn’t actually live through the war, they didn’t experience it, they learned about it from post war comic books and Hollywood movies extolling glory and heroism while whitewashing the real suffering and fear. Those that lived it, took us into Europe for a reason, that the poppy mafia now ignore.
I think your on to something,the old people I’ve met that bang on about this wouldn’t actually have been old enough to fight.
I think your on to something,the old people I’ve met that bang on about this wouldn’t actually have been old enough to fight.
Well if you were born at the end of the war then you are 72 at the moment, born at the start you are 79.... some people probably need reminding
My 80+ yr old parents remember the war and are ardent europhiles
As an example of the weird, twisted worldview of English people of a certain age, ethnicity and culturality, my father fought in the second half in North Africa and Italy. Churchill worshipper, Anti Semite and xenophobic lower-middle-class Daily Express reader. Hated Trade Unionists and the (then) new post-war entrepreneurs (“spivs ”) in equal measure.
Despised the American forces whilst admiring the Germans.
Despite all that has happened since 1945, this kernel of dim, warped poison is still the heart of England.
And it keeps getting better.
What did she think "Leave" meant?
And it keeps getting better.
What did she think “Leave” meant?
Ha I was going to post this the other day but figured there are things and levels of absolute stupidity that need a new word inventing to describe them....
The Andrew Marr show was worth watching today, the Rabb interview and the snap at Shami Chakrabarti.
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One day I will wake up & this whole episode will have just been a warped dream......
Corbyn says that a second referendum is an option in the future but not today.
Is tomorrow OK?
Corbyn also saying he hasn't read the whole document yet. WTF ?
Corbyn says that a second referendum is an option in the future but not today.
He was never behind a second referendum, they reluctantly included the possibility of the second referendum to stop conference from forcing it into being primary policy. Anyone still dreaming that Corbyn actually wants a second ref has been outflanked, in a manoeuvre so obvious the blind could see it.
I suppose that’s what the Polish pilots in the Battle Of Britain were fighting for, then. So that in the future, the English could tell their descendants who come here to work, to get out of the country…
I used to think that this was just disingenuous historical revisionism by people with an agenda, but what the last few weeks in particular, and the last three years more generally, have illustrated is the truly staggering levels of ignorance with this right wing imbecilles.
We've had a Brexit secretary openly say he didn't realise how dependent we were on our ports, and a Northern Ireeland secratery who wasn't aware that Northern Irish voters voted on sectarian lines. Do you think they know about the Polish Battle of Britain pilots?
I'll post this link up again from the Irish Times. Worth a read if you've not read it all ready. And a fair assessment of the quality of MPs we've got
Brexit shows idiots and incompetents are in charge in the UK
jusr read the I article, wtf are these people on?
Nadine Morris?
I have no words.......
Moronic maybe?
Un-fing-real.....
And to think that Nadine Dorries has complained that people call her thick. How anyone could ever put an x in a box and actually want her to represent them is nuts.
That retiree just believes the nationalistic propaganda of war, rather than understanding the reality of history. European integration has honoured those who fought and died by bringing peace and understanding, allowing people to travel freely and understand our neighbours cultures. It is the small minded isolationists who disgrace the sacrifices made during the war.
And I think that half the problem now is that most of those who bang on about the sacrifices made, didn’t actually live through the war, they didn’t experience it, they learned about it from post war comic books and Hollywood movies extolling glory and heroism while whitewashing the real suffering and fear. Those that lived it, took us into Europe for a reason, that the poppy mafia now ignore.
Nails it.
A small group in a factory I deliver to are shocked that half their co-workers have left to go back to their home country (Poland mainly) and that no-one from the UK has come in to replace them.
They did. They grabbed a free coffee during the induction morning then got the doc to sign them off with stress/bad back in their lunch break.
The simple fact there's been no war in Europe should be enough evidence..
War has been replaced with economic/diplomatic wrangling and is how it should be..
Europe is really very novel in this respect.. Something like this, this international cooperation has never been achieved in human history.
And that's not even starting on human rights, environmental laws, animal rights etc.
The EU is the most modern model of international cooperation in history.
Is it perfect? Absolutely not. But it's been designed from the ground up for the members to make corrections with general consensus. And that's critical. It can, has, and does evolve.
Not other political construct in history has been so democratic and colaberative...
Very good post mattyfez. My thoughts entirely.
Speaking to a 99 yr old who did fight in WW2 (pilot) and was pro brexit. Didn't like the Germans telling us what to do.
The Andrew Marr show was worth watching today, the Rabb interview and the snap at Shami Chakrabarti.
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What's great about this whole shambles, is that there now seems to be an increasingly vocal minority of politicians and journalists who are going full-Paxman with the bullshitters. I never thought I'd see the day when even Adam Boulton seemed to have an angry gravitas about him.
Certain people are now openly calling it a farce, so that's something. It's just a shame it took so long.
And to think that Nadine Dorries has complained that people call her thick. How anyone could ever put an x in a box and actually want her to represent them is nuts.
They don't vote for the person, they vote for the party they want in government. You could put a cabbage up as MP for the tory party where I live and it would still win.
Speaking to a 99 yr old who did fight in WW2 (pilot) and was pro brexit. Didn’t like the Germans telling us what to do.
So a 99 year old who doesn't believe in his country, The "patriotism" of these brexiteers is astounding, no faith whatsoever in the UK, and yet they believe that a country that can't negotiate within a "friendly" community can negotiate in the real world.
But the one word that describes the Brexiteers more than anything is ‘Delusional’
The truly terrifying thing is that as it all unravels they seem to be becoming more so, not less. Doubling down on this insane fantasy of a return to Empire
But the one word that describes the Brexiteers more than anything is ‘Delusional’
The truly terrifying thing is that as it all unravels they seem to be becoming more so, not less. Doubling down on this insane fantasy of a return to Empire
Everything they have been taught and believe is failing to come true. It is hard for people to grasp that they were lied to and that thief life outlook is wrong. It’s easier to blame the world....
Nadine Dorries should be happy if people stop at just calling her thick.
I would use probably the only word that, under normal circumstances, I would never use towards a woman. The one that hints at someone who you will meet on the forthcoming Tuesday.
I wake up every day thinking about Breshit, and go to sleep thinking about Breshit. As the day goes on, it makes me feel angrier and angrier. Now my wife has just said maybe we should think about stocking up on a few things, and my 15 yr old daughter is genuinely scarred by it all. I feel helpless. I hate feeling helpless. I hate the feeling we are all just banging our heads against a wall. I hate the fact that some friends, family, and neighbours are narrow minded, bigots and it didn't take much of a prod to expose this. I hate it all.
^ *like*
Though actually I'm still pretty confident about brexit not happening, it's still shit watching this slow-motion car-crash happening all around us. There's little comfort in being right when everyone else is wrong.
Well I suggest you put that in a letter to your MP and the PM (though best not put a name on that one just in case - call it the Australian way)
Not a 'Brexiteer', but I don't understand this adulation of our fellow EU members attitude and the downer on the UK. None of us are perfect.
Has anyone noticed, for example, the Polish and Hungarian attitude to immigrants and asylum seekers? They are worse than us.
So we have Poland and Hungary telling the UK that we have to accept the self selecting immigrants from their country, and that it is a good thing for the UK, but they won't co-operate with the EU's plan to distribute refugees as it is a bad thing.
As for immigration into Poland from outside the EU of anyone with a brown face..........
I think we all have a lot to learn.
Oh I've not only written to my MP but spoken to him too, though since he's the govt chief whip I don't expect him to take much notice.
I don't think many of us admire the racists in the other EU countries, apart from the Tories who are supporting them in the parliament.
In some sort of defence of Nadine Dorries, what she said in that interview has been spun. She was referring to the transitional period, where the UK leaves but not leaves, still pays "club fees", but looses all privileges of full membership. A situation that could go on indefinitely and one that will infuriate the leave, and leave now brigade.
I can't believe I've just defended her. Shoot me now FFS!
Couldn’t agree more Andy8442. I’m absolutely ****ing livid!!!
For myself, but mainly for my 11 and 14 year old daughters, who are going to be deprived of life opportunities, and grow up in a poorer, less diverse, more insular, meaner and smaller country, on the say so of a shower of cynical, lying, self-serving opportunists, and hard right zealots, and the bunch of petty, bitter, small-minded little-England idiots and racists who were stupid enough to listen to them
I wake up every day thinking about Breshit, and go to sleep thinking about Breshit. As the day goes on, it makes me feel angrier and angrier. Now my wife has just said maybe we should think about stocking up on a few things, and my 15 yr old daughter is genuinely scarred by it all.
This is one of the saddest posts I've read on here for a while 🙁🙁 Don't you think its your somewhat over the top Brexit paranoia thats scaring your daughter ?
Whatever the future holds, bright, educated young people will do just fine. It's old uneducated people like myself, without the skills to be mobile who are stuck with this mess. And still I force myself to be optimistic, because there's F all else I can do.
*what she said in that interview has been spun."
It doesn't need to be spun, she just doesn't understand the facts. The UK *will* have left, the interim period is simply an arrangement to help the UK in lieu of a formal trade , no deal.Hence no MEPs.
Don’t you think its your somewhat over the top Brexit paranoia thats scaring your daughter ?
Really, over the top? we have a government at war with itself, 2 factions that can't get close to agreement, half of them hell bent on crashing the UK out with no transition and there seems to be no plan in action at all.
Where is the positive news, the "it will all be all right" stuff might get you through but you know what it won't be if we crash out.
Whatever the future holds, bright, educated young people will do just fine.
Or to put it properly, just better than
old uneducated people
And still I force myself to be optimistic, because there’s F all else I can do.
I prefer to be realistic about what will happen and try and engage where I can to make sure this does not drift away as "The grown ups are sorting it out, no need to worry your pretty little head about it"
That retiree just believes the nationalistic propaganda of war, rather than understanding the reality of history. European integration has honoured those who fought and died by bringing peace and understanding, allowing people to travel freely and understand our neighbours cultures. It is the small minded isolationists who disgrace the sacrifices made during the war.
And I think that half the problem now is that most of those who bang on about the sacrifices made, didn’t actually live through the war, they didn’t experience it, they learned about it from post war comic books and Hollywood movies extolling glory and heroism while whitewashing the real suffering and fear. Those that lived it, took us into Europe for a reason, that the poppy mafia now ignore.
Absolutely spot on, and well said! It’s not just me that’s noticed that the most vocal of the poppy mafia aren’t old enough to have lived through WW2. My grandfather was a regular infantryman at the outbreak of WW1 and fought and (just about) survived many of the major battles. He was invalided out of the Army, couldn’t work after the war and had to live on a very meagre army pension. He couldn’t stand the whole poppy thing (apparently, he wouldn’t allow one in the house!). He used to say that the British make more of a fuss of the dead than they do the living, and I think he saw the poppy campaign as Earl Haigs blood money.
My wife’s grandfather saw action with the 8th army in the Western Desert and then France, and again, I guess because he’d seen the results of war at first hand, he didn’t want to remember it - and I think he could see through this Nationalist sh*te. My wife said she once asked him why the returning troops voted Churchill out, and he said “ we’d just spent the four years fighting fascists, we weren’t going to vote the buggers back in here”.
There was a programme on the radio a few years back that was about ‘end of empires’, and the guy had researched the dying throes of several big empires, and he’d picked out patterns of behaviour that were common to all. One of these was the ‘celebration’ of previous military successes, and the over veneration of war dead by people who were separated by age from the actual events. Seem to remember the researcher describing the harking back to ‘golden age’ and over veneration as the final death rattle of empire.
i don’t think Brexiters appreciate what a stabilising influence the EU has been.
binners
...but mainly for my 11 and 14 year old daughters, who are going to be deprived of life opportunities, and grow up in a poorer, less diverse, more insular, meaner and smaller country...
Just move to Scotland.
We welcome incomers and we'll be independent soon.
I remember seeing a Polish politician on tv the day after the referendum.
He was furious and I also think really saddened by the result. His father had been a pilot fighting over the skies of Britain during the war.
He said something like "let the British fly their own planes next time". Of course we did do that too but you could see his point. I felt deeply saddened at the time and now so just as much.
As far as stockpiling, I will be doing so and no, I'm not a tin foil hat type normally.
I'll be attempting to get my 89 year old mother an extra month of her extremely important meds. Will definitely be getting a few Jerry cans of fuel sorted too. Lots of canned goods also.
I really think if we crash out it's going to get very bad very fast.
If I'm wrong? Who cares. If I'm right....
Of course, the horrible reality is that if it goes pear shaped things could be very, very bad for far more than a month or so.
Don't they say that civilisation is only a few missed meals away from anarchy and chaos? Though it's not just food anymore. It's petrol and blackouts too.
Whatever the future holds, bright, educated young people will do just fine.
You do know that for the most part because we do shorter degrees these are classified one down or not at all in many other countries.
So a masters is classified as a bachelors etc. Now there are a few universities that have some weight and if you look at global top 20 UK normally has 4-5 which if you want to work abroad these will help with visas.
as with our negotiating stance with the EU we have assumptions above our station. The rest of the world has caught up and we are standing still. It’s ****ing depressing
Just move to Scotland. We welcome incomers and we’ll be independent soon.
Do we? Last I checked we had just as many insular folk, they just aren't part of the narrative. You can pretend they don't exist if you like but you can't change facts.