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One of the more disturbing elements of the ongoing cluster**** that is Brexit is the yawning rift it has opened - where open abuse has become the normative form of address between each and the other.
My Mum will turn 80 next week, and she remembers hiding under the stairs as bombs rained down on Salford, terrified and clutched in a huddle with her Mother and Brother. She voted to Remain btw, even though she is old.
Now barbed insults rain on us from everywhichway and we have lost a communal huddle to clutch to.
As hard as it might be, can we at least be civil?
You do know that for the most part because we do shorter degrees these are classified one down or not at all in many other countries.
Our masters are a bit different, not being two years. But the value of a lot of the world's 4 year bachelor's is really quite terrible, the 1st year in American universities is a generalist year that is no tougher than IB. Some European and international courses I've seen have a seen have really quite easy exams in the first and second years. Don't get me started on Asia, outside of Japan, eg China the university and academic systems can be utterly corrupt.
Overall except for the USA, I have never seen foreign companies turn there noses up at a good UK degree. Our middling universities are as highly ranked as a lot of top universities from other nations.
Problem is we are dealing with this- from another forum....
If we crash out and lamb exported to France gets 40% tariffs, would New Zealand lamb imported into the UK also have 40% tariffs under wto rules?
If so, just use the tariffs collected from the NZ lamb to subsidise the UK farmer who exports to France.
Am I correct in thinking that UK lamb export volumes broadly equal our imports?
I can't be arsed to explain this to the individual who wrote this why the above does not work like that. Its difficult to remain civil when faced with this level of stupidity. The vast majority of these people just simply dont understand the reality of what is going on. The person above is a ****ing sheep farmer who voted leave.
Overall except for the USA, I have never seen foreign companies turn there noses up at a good UK degree.
Companies don’t issue visas governments do.
i will admit that our short system is generally no worse than other countries long system but if you are a government mandating the long style we don’t check all the boxes. Forms, faceless officials and AI don’t reason...
The crux of the conversation comes from what is a good degree. One guy I worked with said get a first from a top 10 uni and you will be fine... I didn’t get a first btw...
It's not easy, to be sure, but whichever way the cards fall we're still going to have to live with each other.
Deep breaths before typing?
Well i dont need to live with them, my family, colleagues, friends are all on the remain side of the fence and you need to have a degree in IT to work in my business and probably be under 30 so little chance of me employing a swivel eyed brexitter.
However down the pub its good fun winding the real dumb arses up.
My questions include " WTO how do you spell that"
Had one local rabid brexit nut job complain about the cost of diesal and i said " well uncertainty and the exchange rate dont help," and i was told that the exchange rate had nothing to do with fuel prices.... apparently he told me the price of a pint had not changed from the last time he was in Tenerife- i shit you not.
It's all such a mess.
I wish i could see a way out of it, but i can't.
What do you do when you have donkeys led by donkeys?
It’s not easy, to be sure, but whichever way the cards fall we’re still going to have to live with each other.
Deep breaths before typing?
Sorry, but no. The triumph of the EU has been substituting in debate and argument for shooting and bombing. The Brexiteers will be lucky if there isn’t physical violence if we crash out and tip the country into anarchy.
They deserve to be offended.
A lot of hysteria and a lot of hate on this thread!
My take is got to keep a sense of perspective, I reckon despite this mania very little will change when Brexit goes through.
(Before the pitch fork mob comes along, I voted remain. But I respect the population that didn't)
May is going to be saying this today too to over.... well, you know the types.
"It will no longer be the case that EU nationals, regardless of the skills or experience they have to offer, can jump the queue ahead of engineers from Sydney or software developers from Delhi.
"Instead of a system based on where a person is from, we will have one that is built around the talents and skills a person has to offer."
So, I take from the above, this:
1) We only sent over to the EU the best of the best Brits then? I wonder if UK experts thought they were jumping queues when working/living over there...?
2) Who exactly shall we get to pick our crops then? The brain surgeon from Melbourne?
3) I can't help but think many Brexiteers actually don't get realise that many of the immigrants we shall be prioritising from over seas..... Will actually be "worse"** than the EU citizens we currently allow in. By that I mean that a great many of them will not be white.... and though we are always told Leavers aren't racist.... I can't but keep this fact has so far eluded them which is bloody genius in my book.
** Worse based on skin colour as per the (hush,hush) Leaver rule book 101. I'm sure not all Leavers are racist but I'm also sure most racists are Leavers!
My take is got to keep a sense of perspective, I reckon despite this mania very little will change when Brexit goes through.
OK...
I currently pop to the eu for work, how will that work post brexit?
Some on my colleagues sell equipment into the eu, what should eu customers allocate for tariffs?
How will we manage the port of Dover in the new brexit regulations (which we have not written down yet)
My take is got to keep a sense of perspective, I reckon despite this mania very little will change when Brexit goes through.
Whatever happens prices will go up and big businesses will squeeze their supply chain to get more profits.
As long as I can still live and work in the EU as I can do now visa free we will be all good.
Still you are right though in some respects nothing will change. Manufacturing still won’t be coming back here and depressed areas that have been ignored for decades will still be ignored... none of the issues that caused this will be addressed or fixed...
(Before the pitch fork mob comes along, I voted remain. But I respect the population that didn’t)
I really did try to do that at first but when you are faced with such mindless abandon to negatively affect my family's life in the future I find it increasingly hard to find any forgiveness. I now take it pretty bloody personally in fact.
Mike, net flow of trade is 70 billion from UK to EU.
They want to sell to us, we want to buy. I don't see how this changes in any sort of Brexit
I'd like to remind all that I voted remain, and am married to an immigrant.
They want to sell to us, we want to buy. I don’t see how this changes in any sort of Brexit
I'd suggest you read up on that then.
I’d like to remind all that I voted remain, and am married to an immigrant.
If they don't have a UK passport best read up some more....
This is exactly what needs to be agreed by a UK government who can't agree with each other and then agreed by the rest of the eu.
They want to sell to us, we want to buy. I don’t see how this changes in any sort of Brexit
That principle won’t change. The costs to either party might and therefore the supply/demand. Plus if we go to WTO other people get to decide our tariffs and industry subsidies for us...
still basic trade is just a minor part of what we have with the EU. There is of course the movement of people but also the collaboration of research, safety standards to name a few. Some we lose entirely, some we will have to follow but without any say and for others we might be able to access the systems as s third party at greatly increased effort/cost.
. Plus if we go to WTO other people get to decide our tariffs and industry subsidies for us…
We would need to become members first.
They want to sell to us, we want to buy. I don’t see how this changes in any sort of Brexit
That basic will doesn't. But the devil's in the detail......as Mike says, I suggest you have a read up on that and quite quickly. It might make you rethink on your
very little will change when Brexit goes through.
“It will no longer be the case that EU nationals, regardless of the skills or experience they have to offer, can jump the queue ahead of engineers from Sydney or software developers from Delhi
I think we can translate this as “ cheapest gets to come in”.
As for “very little will change”, a bloody lot has already changed and none of it good.
I’d like to remind all that I voted remain, and am married to an immigrant.
If they don’t have a UK passport best read up some more….
Here's the relevant information, I don't see anything of concern for ugarizza's wife. Point to the bit where she or anyone else already living here will get kicked out ?
https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-citizens-families
Depends whether she is eligible for…
- pre settled status
- settled status
- ILM
- citizenship
…and whether she wants to keep her rights to her "other country", or has to, or wants to, leave the country for a lengthy period of time any reason (for work or family reasons) and then return. If he's earning 1.5 times the average UK earnings… she should be fine no matter what. Anything that gets you involved with the home office, just to keep your right to live somewhere, is best avoided though. Speak to anyone that's been through it.
If you’re a European Union (<abbr title="European Union">EU</abbr>) citizen, you and your family will be able to apply to get either settled or pre-settled status. This will mean you can continue living in the UK after 31 December 2020.
What is the reason for writing "apply" it's not a given.
It's also part of ongoing negotiations, not sure if it gives the same rights to current EU citizens.
But yeah nothing changes....
Still nobody can tell me what the visa process will be for working on the continent, or which tariff model we will be using in about 4 months time. How should people be budgeting for that in capital projects?
Yeah agree with what someone said above re collective over reaction.
Brexit is a major issue but it is now the emotions of anger, hate and fear which poses the grestest threat. These are threatening to get out of control which means things could turn nasty eg major civil strife. These have been building for a long time and the main challenge facing the country is the lack of inclusive economic growth thats plagued us since the 70s.
Theresa Mays brexit deal is actually a great unifier. Everyone in parliament is united against it. But peoplr do need to take a step back, get some pespective, this isnt helped be a headline grabbing media and some reckless behaviour by MPs.
Yeah agree with what someone said above re collective over reaction
My job is at threat. Am I allowed to be a teensy bit upset?
Yeah agree with what someone said above re collective over reaction
This has real and substantial impacts on my life, my work, my family and many other things. I am having rights and freedoms removed from me and there is no leadership at all on the issue, no consensus and very little time to sort all of this out. If I'm not allowed to be angry over this then what can I get angry about.
Ok so after hearing all the arguments from maybot 1.0 in her press campaign and now she's had a firmware update i reckon we should all leave and stop being silly
What is the reason for writing “apply” it’s not a given.
In the same way as I'm entitled to a passport, but still have to apply for one.
Anyway I know this is the Brexit moan thread. I hope it helps for some to let of a bit of steam about the whole mess. But that only works up to a point, the level of bile, negativity and actual hatred on this thread is borderline poisonous. For your own well being I'd recommend some of you reign it in a bit. Me I'll duck out of this thread for now untill things are a bit clearer.
I do hope you are as insulated from this debacle as you assume.
Hopefully we will see you safe and well on the other side.
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A lot of hysteria and a lot of hate on this thread!
My take is got to keep a sense of perspective, I reckon despite this mania very little will change when Brexit goes through
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really depends on the sector you are in
Here in cancer research 3 big things are the loss of EMA meaning that Pharma is shifting (actually already shifted) certfication work to continenet, leaving us at a dissadvantage,
Funding,>10% of all accademic funding is via EU, government have pledged to match existing projects, but science has to plan 3-5 years ahead to keep teh money coming & access to EU grants has become much harder, even Welcome are threatening to cut UK funding which would be very bad for my sector</span>
FOM, weve already seen big drop in EU students at universities & that is not good for fininaces & EU job applicants have definitely dropped off & many have already left, whist ever tighter visa restrictions on ROW mean for 1st time, we are struggling to recruit good candidates (similar to whats being seen in NHS)
Other than that general economy is showing worrying trends, inflation has taken £bns frome economy & pockets- personal debt now at record levels & this has follow on effects on high street etc, theres a lot of companies that didnt need this extra hit right now, (not saying brext is only cause just another factor)
.
My take is got to keep a sense of perspective, I reckon despite this mania very little will change when Brexit goes through
That'll fix things.
[ sticks head back in sand ]
Some in my family have sorted their joint citizenship ready for whatever happens. Anyone with their family or work extending beyond our little borders that can do so, should do the same.
In this house we have manipulated just in time prescriptions to allow us to have a small store of insulin. Medical equipment that we get direct from Ireland and Holland will be doubled up before our exit date.
Prepare.
Maybot been rebooted? Don’t feel sorry for her; to quote “Tuckered” on FB (sorry Mods, hope the filter does its job)
“
Don't you dare start feeling sorry for Theresa May.
This is the woman who misplaced a dossier on paedophile MPs, sent Nazi style '**** off home' immigration vans out on to our roads, made the invited windrush generation that helped us rebuild a post-war country feel like second class citizens, sacked 20,000 police officers and pushed successfully for a snoopers charter.
Yes, the blades are out from her colleagues, in what's turning out to be a shit week of the long knives, but that is to be expected, after all, it was the plan all along.
No one wanted to negotiate the un-negiotable, to go down in history as the person who ****ed the UK. Cameron didn't, and that's why he scarpered quicker than a pig at an Eaton bash.
May is the Patsy, the fall-guy. The Tories just found the most stubborn ' bloody difficult woman' they could. Someone motivated purely by self interest, and power-hungry enough to cling-on like a failed trapeze artist with one last shot at the big time.
She's served her purpose and fulfilled her destiny, soon to be discarded like a used condom.
Forget Brexit for a minute though, let's concentrate on her premiership which is just a continuation of Cameron's.
We know about homelessness doubling, the rise of foodbanks, the use of zero hours contracts to manipulate true employment figures, and we know about the astounding levels of poverty in the 5th largest economy in the world.
And now it's been confirmed.
The UN has just reported that there's 14 million people living in poverty in the UK. They labelled the government's benefit changes callous, unnecessary, and easy to reverse.
So don't weep for that stone-hearted animated cadaver, dancing for your affections like a fat stripper on her first night, because she a ****.”
Greg Clark admitted on R4 this morning that transition as non voting member (vassal state in mogglodyte) could be extended to 2022, but said only if necessary (last time they said that it was immedieatel extended to 2020)
The NHS where I work is already struggling with a loss of EU recruitment. this is only going to get worse. 1000 applicants a month less already. Non of these posts earn enough to get visas.
So next big question....
Where is all the money coming from? We have already spent more than we pay in to the EU.
We are forecast to spend more for a good few years so how are we going to pay for it all?
You know Business as Usual, no real impact and all that
Where is all the money coming from?
magic money tree?
Can we presume that these 48 letters must have been sent via Yodel and are now sat behind a bush in the 1922 Committee's next-door neighbours garden?
Or that Moggy and his noisy Brexiteers have, once again, failed to get the numbers, as even most of his own party recoil in horror at the distraction of a pointless no confidence vote at this point, which May would win comfortably anyway. Given the horrendous alternatives available.
I can't believe there's anyone left in the country who credit these idiots with a shred of credibility, but apparently there are
It's not hard, they have the numbers, but are holding back to use it as pressure on the PM. And, yes, their archaic secret club rules allow this… 1922 chair just sits on the letters and repeatedly asks the ringleaders if they're ready for the vote. They aren't… and May will be betting they won't be this side of us "Leaving".
their archaic secret club rules allow this…
actual footage of the Tory leadership slection procedure can be found online
Companies don’t issue visas governments do.
i will admit that our short system is generally no worse than other countries long system but if you are a government mandating the long style we don’t check all the boxes. Forms, faceless officials and AI don’t reason…
The crux of the conversation comes from what is a good degree. One guy I worked with said get a first from a top 10 uni and you will be fine… I didn’t get a first btw…
I've beaten a Cambridge graduate with a first in an interview - it turns out that my lecturers were right, the requisite marks will get you through the doors - but being able to hold a conversation, show depth of thought and sell yourself and ideas is what takes you further.
I have never seen a points based Visa system that discounts British degrees, whilst the most important element of gaining a visa abroad is having the relevant work experience and a job offer in the first place.
If you're applying for a job and relying on a good degree to get through a selection process that is based on faceless officials and A.I sorting - you're doing something wrong in the first place. Linkedin, your lecturers connections, your connections from your work experience all count more and you shouldn't be applying for some shit faceless role in the first place.
Can we presume that these 48 letters must have been sent via Yodel and are now sat behind a bush in the 1922 Committee’s next-door neighbours garden?
Yodel - definitely. Not Royal Mail, though, that's socialism dontcha know.....
No, Yodel is definitely much more fitting - poor service and poorly paid, unmotivated workers in a perpetual downward spiral whilst huge profits are being creamed off the top - into individual pockets.
What you didn't mention is that the parcel of letters has also been nicked, but the local police don't have the resources to investigate anything short of serial killing, so no dice there. However, the senders have decided that 'technology' is the answer, but they can't quite get the hang of email (their 1950s nostalgia won't let them perceive it is possible), so maybe Maybot is off the hook.
If you’re applying for a job…
We're talking about Visa applications, not job applications. If you've never worked on a large scale IT or engineering project dogged by rejected or expiring visa applications for key, accepted, vetted, highly employable, staff… then you've been lucky (or benefitted from EU/EEA staff not having to get visas).
It seems the Brexiteers have a new word and are attempting a re-branding exercise. They've been dropping the words 'Global Brexit' at every available opportunity today.
No doubt as it sounds a bit better than 'No Deal Brexit', 'Chaotic Brexit', 'Disorderly Brexit' and 'we're all completely *ing *ed Brexit'?
"Global Britain" is what the cunning Dominic Cummings rejected as the message for the campaign he was at the centre off. His work with focus groups showed it gained no traction, and wouldn't have got Leave the win. Hence all the "control", "money given away" and NHS stuff that proved to be useful at winning over swing voters.
"Global Brexit" could win over hardened Brexit pushers in the upcoming votes in parliament, but won't win another referendum (if it happens).
Anyway, May is now aping "jobs first" message of Labour front bench, and focusing on immigration. She's after the support of certain backbench Labour MPs for her withdrawal deal, I suspect.
And theres a good article by John Harris on the ongoing uselessness of Jeremy Corbyn in Todays Guardian
Brexit is class betrayal. So why is labour colluding in it?
We’re talking about Visa applications, not job applications. If you’ve never worked on a large scale IT or engineering project dogged by rejected or expiring visa applications for key, accepted, vetted, highly employable, staff… then you’ve been lucky (or benefitted from EU/EEA staff not having to get visas).
But that's the UK visa system, which is one of the daftest in the world right? Someone give me an example of a country that does not recognise UK degrees? The only example I can think of is India, which recognizes French one year masters but not British ones as equivalent to their own - this is down to rea politick and geopolitical factors not the degrees themselves. India uses this as an economic bargaining chip, because their own masters programs are quite frankly mostly terrible,
Currently though, the UK visa system is not so daft as to not recognise the validity of UK degree courses.