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[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

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Things like you cannot come in or stay without a job

That was done originally when the 8 new states joined. I know this as I worked for the home office then (2006), checking the documents of the applicants from the 8 new EU states as part of the 'Worker Registration Scheme' if they didn't have Valid ID and a letter from their employer their applciation to come to the UK for work was rejected.

And we did find some hilariously fake IDs.

Doesn't mean they didn't just rock up anyways, but that was a problem for our border force, not the WRS.

No idea when or which government binned it off though.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 12:20 pm
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“Anti-immigrant feeling” is not prevented by stopping people move for work. When did you last meet an EU national in the UK who did not have a job? When did anyone?

Playing devils advocate here.

Many of EU nationals I have met coming here to work bring their families & children along. That means there will automatically be people here without jobs. Those family members are immediately, on entry to the UK, entitled to child benefits, family tax credits, universal free healthcare, job seekers allowance for anyone over 18 etc. All very attractive things that give the Right Wing press and the gammons plenty of easy targets (and possibly justifiable in some cases) to aim their vitriol at. Having worked away in the EU myself I can testify to the fact that it is certainly not that easy to just up sticks and to relocate your whole family to most other EU countries unless you have a really well paid job to go to already, somewhere to live sorted in advance, and appropriate insurances in place to cover any unforeseen problems.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 12:27 pm
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Okay, kids not working (yet) is a fair point. Would you rather put them up chimneys, or keep kids out?

Other European countries do make it harder to move/work there. We could do the same and stay in the EU. We shouldn't though, it's counter productive and just reinforces the idea that incomers are unwelcome and second class to people already here. And that feeds rather than counters the anti-immigrant rhetoric.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 12:29 pm
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It's generally 5 years before you can claim UK benefits as a EU national.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 12:36 pm
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But we could easily introduce some minor measures and appropriately spin it in order to "give the impression" that we are making it more difficult for EU workers than the current system we have. That would surely go some way to placate many and could be sold as "ending Freedom of Movement" as we have come to know it.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 12:37 pm
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That would surely go some way to placate many and could be sold as “ending Freedom of Movement” as we have come to know it.

Which highlights the real problem that we don't actually know how many we are placating, or why or if it will make a difference, some of them are the isolation or nothing types who wouldn't be appeased until every foreigner is removed from the country.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 12:39 pm
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From Labour's twitter yesterday…

It’s time for a government that will fight for a Brexit deal that brings our country together.

Red unicorns.

I'm not voting for them again while this continues. Might be only a few other people that think the same way. Might be a few thousand. Might be a few million. I don't know.

If they adopt the policy Labour members want… I'm back onboard, and will actively campaign for them.

Don't go telling me that the Labour leadership are "keeping all options on the table", it is bullshit.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 1:29 pm
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I really don't know any more.

I have never felt less 'British' than I do at the moment.

Watching this fiasco develop, putting myself in the shoes of an outsider looking on with a mixture of pity and derision as this country makes a total fool of itself in front of the eyes of the world. I wish I was French, or German, or Dutch, or any other developed nation that isn't busy giving in to the easy politics of division and ganging up on minorities to distract itself from its real issues and responsibilities.

If we have a shred of respect left anywhere in the world after this, we should be grateful.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 1:31 pm
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Kelvin - welsh farmer has it.

Measures were available that would have had in actual fact very little effect but could have been nicely spun to kill one of the tories attack lines that led to where we are now.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 1:36 pm
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May playing it up the middle to keep her party together is duplicitous but Corbyn doing the same is "politically expedient". Aye. Right.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 1:49 pm
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was wondering why Johnson had gone so quiet

https://twitter.com/ottocrat/status/1063413867563372544


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 1:53 pm
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Odious human.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 2:08 pm
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Where's Bannon?


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 2:20 pm
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Multiple sources now claiming the 48 are in, let the bloodshed begin


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 2:23 pm
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Boris to sign as the skipper of UKIP?

Good,take all your ****wits with you.

Split the vote.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 2:23 pm
 rone
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Multiple sources now claiming the 48 are in, let the bloodshed begin.

Where, when, who?


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 2:26 pm
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<div class="bbp-reply-author">kelvin
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<div class="">Subscriber</div>
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</div>

<div class="bbp-reply-content">

Corbyn is ruling out a so called second vote if he gets into government.

Is he? I've seen him say that he's pushing for an election or failing that a second vote. I haven't seen him rule out a second vote if he's in power.

</div>


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 2:27 pm
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Where, when, who?

BBC live Web page has them, sourced from mp's and newspapers sources.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 2:31 pm
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Is he? I’ve seen him say that he’s pushing for an election or failing that a second vote. I haven’t seen him rule out a second vote if he’s in power.

He doesn't want to be in the EU, he does want to be in power. He's little better than Gove trying to keep quiet and saying he could have done a better job and/or would like to do a better job.

Just wish someone would stick their head above the parapet and call for a second referendum, couldn't a Lib Dem do it as a private members bill?

Can amendments be added to the so called "meaningful vote", or is it just a yes/no vote?

BBC live Web page has them, sourced from mp’s and newspapers sources.

Only 21 names though, nothing to indicate there's another 27.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 2:33 pm
 Del
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Welsh farmer, do you want to withdraw your comment about benefit eligibility for anyone over 18? This is the sort of oft-repeated misinformation that swings referendums....

TJ, you repeatedly pointed out that wanting one of the 4 freedoms would mean accepting all when we were talking about May's deal, Ireland, and the gfa, so it would never fly with the EU. I don't see that wanting 3 of the 4, no freedom of movement, would fly either. If one leads to a no deal I find it hard to accept that the other wouldn't.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 2:37 pm
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Only 21 names though, nothing to indicate there’s another 27.

The reporting was of the other letters being there/on their way but not public which you would understand as not all those who would vote want to be known if the numbers didn't get there


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 2:40 pm
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BBC live Web page has them, sourced from mp’s and newspapers sources.

Only 21 names though, nothing to indicate there’s another 27.

Exactly, stick to the facts.

The 48 have NOT (yet) been received


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 2:41 pm
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The 48 have NOT (yet) been received

That's not a fact either.
Facts:
21 letters publicly sent
Unknown number of private letters sent.

Number of unconfirmed and anonymous reports that the 48 has been reached.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 2:47 pm
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There will be some that have put thier letter in and not made it public though ... Could easily be enough given 21 are public.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 2:48 pm
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-46200010?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5beebc5c6c10aa067360fc57%26Steve%20Baker%3A%20Vote%20of%20confidence%20%27imminent%27%262018-11-16T13%3A14%3A45%2B00%3A00&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:d9f21e0b-b00f-45df-9de7-8dd94ba34be5&pinned_post_asset_id=5beebc5c6c10aa067360fc57&pinned_post_type=share

Why can't I see how to shorten a link??

Steve Baker claims he knows of 48 in and another 12 likely, several other sources have come up with the same claim.

Public declarations are pointless unless it's a certainty and you know you can finish her off, especially from any cabinet minister or next in line for a job


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 2:50 pm
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Unknown is, erm... unknown

Unless you are counting them yourself.

Best wait to see the full facts eh.

21 letters publicly sent
Unknown number of private letters sent.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 2:51 pm
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Welsh farmer, do you want to withdraw your comment about benefit eligibility for anyone over 18? This is the sort of oft-repeated misinformation that swings referendums….

Not sure. I did some reading before hand and was guided by this document which is for EU citizens outlining what they can and can't claim in aeach EU country....

http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=1132&langId=en&intPageId=4848

OK, just re-read it and seems you need to have been in the UK for 3 months before being able to claim. My bad. (I was reading the "common travel area" as the EU and not the UK and Rep of Ireland)


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 2:51 pm
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The reporting was of the other letters being there/on their way but not public which you would understand as not all those who would vote want to be known if the numbers didn’t get there

The "report" was one line that Steve Baker (deputy chair of ERG) said the threshold had been reached.

Number of unconfirmed and anonymous reports that the 48 has been reached.

Unconfirmed and anonymous source ranks somewhere below "Dave down the pub said"

Doesn't mean it won't happen, but several people on twitter repeating what Steve Baker said does not constitute corroboration.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 2:52 pm
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turns out a bad deal is better than no deal 🙂 🙂

https://twitter.com/BrexitCentral/status/1063405317344698368


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 2:56 pm
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I would not trust the British press, remember this is the same press that recently claimed the KSK....the German special forces was going to overthrow the German government....kill all the socialist leaders and the re-enact kristallnacht.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 2:57 pm
 ctk
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What would the question/options be on a 2nd referendum?


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 2:58 pm
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I would not trust the British press, remember this is the same press that recently claimed the KSK

What all the press, some of the press, one of the press a bit of the press?

Doesn’t mean it won’t happen, but several people on twitter repeating what Steve Baker said does not constitute corroboration.

The ones I read were before Baker's statement/interview


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 3:01 pm
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Almost...

https://twitter.com/james_cj_w/status/1063387190112206849


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 3:01 pm
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What would the question/options be on a 2nd referendum?

Remain or May's deal, there is no way Parliament would put no deal on the ballot.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 3:04 pm
 rone
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Anyone else watch LBC with PM & Nick Ferrari?

I bet he’s got a sit-on lawn mower


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 3:09 pm
 ctk
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I read that as "...daft Brexit deal"


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 3:14 pm
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Only 21 names though, nothing to indicate there’s another 27.

this could be because there's only 21 tories left in the party however


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 3:18 pm
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What all the press, some of the press, one of the press a bit of the press?

All but the BBC, the Indy, the FT, the Guardian and the Times. I guess that is a rather large chunk that is trustworthy. The rest aren't.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 3:24 pm
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All but the BBC, the Indy, the FT, the Guardian and the Times. I guess that is a rather large chunk that is trustworthy. The rest aren’t.

I was about to say it had completely passed me by, who covered it Breitbart, Westmonster and The Quibbler?


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 3:29 pm
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We have actually conducted a valuable international public service, though

Every single government on the planet is making a mental note never ever to have a referendum on anything EVER, under any circumstances!!

We’re an international laughing stock. The first country in history to try and negotiate a trade deal that’s considerably worse than the one they’ve already got

A lot of former British colonies are laughing their tits off that it’s now us that is the very definition of a Banana Republic


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 3:30 pm
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Quote from BBC:

International Trade Secretary Liam Fox told an event in Bristol: "We are not elected to do what we want to do, but to do what is in the national interest."

Wow, I mean really, just wow. That takes buster gonad sized balls or a jaw dropping lack of awareness to stand up and say that given what he and his wrecking crew have already done against the national interest in the name of lining their own pockets!


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 4:11 pm
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Do you see much self-awareness in government at the moment.

Raab is so ignorant that not only had it not occurred to him that as an island we’re quite dependent on our ports, but he was so lacking in self-awareness that he publically vocalised it, as if it’d never crossed anyone else’s mind either.

And according to the bookies, he’s odds on to be the next PM

Makes you wonder what other staggeringly obvious things haven’t occurred to him either. The pope being catholic, perhaps?

God help us. They’re all morons! If anything, it’s a pretty damning indictment of the expensive U.K. private education system. From Cameron through to this half-wit, we’re in this mess due to the rank stupidity and incompetence of people who’ve had the most expensive education money can buy


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 4:19 pm
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I was about to say it had completely passed me by, who covered it Breitbart, Westmonster and The Quibbler?

The Daily Fail, The Metro (which is where I spotted it), The Sun - you know, the usual suspects that have way too much influence in the UK.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 4:35 pm
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Every single government on the planet is making a mental note never ever to have a referendum on anything EVER, under any circumstances!!

Have you told the Swiss yet, they have had 10 in 2018.

The key to referendums is asking the right question.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 5:04 pm
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