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First google hit for me
"freedom of movement will have to end, the shadow Brexit secretary has said."
They clearly can be read multiple ways since that’s what’s happening here.
OK, what's your read on his support for ending FOM?
Looks like the 48 letters are in - and whips are being told to get MPs to the Common today (they'd usually have constituency business on Fridays).
We could be in for an interesting day!
Anyone else resigned in the last 15mins 🤣
I really don't see how his history of whipping the party on brexit votes can be read in any other way than what actually happened.
Seems unimaginable that Gove will stay...and the moment he goes, things get almost impossible for May.
Breakfast TV this morning: Vox pop of folk in Bolton - most seemed to voice considered opinions.
Then on comes what I think was a Labour MP and seems to suggest that they can win an election and renegotiate the brexit deal in four months. I may have misunderstood.
Unicorns! Unicorns EVERYWHERE!
Its laughable.
Totally agree. The cult of anti-Corbynism is a powerful thing. The more I read and hear from his critics the more I think they are far more obsessed by him than his supposed acolytes. It really is an interesting phenomenon. For my own part I'm genuinely bemused at why such an unimposing, inoffensive and quite frankly boring personality stirs such passions.
I think the anticorbs are seeing what they want to see more so than the procorbs.
This is bollocks. I voted for Labour for the first time at the last election because of Corbyn and his transformation of Labour policy on domestic issues so that it much closer matches what Labour members want. What I WANT TO SEE is Corbyn dropping his support for Brexit and saying that if we got a Labour government that it would offer us the chance to vote to stop it. And, in the meantime, that in opposition, Labour support a public vote to stop it.
Whatever labour said in 2017 is irrelevant just as TMS red lines are irrelevant.
"End freedom of movement". What exactly does that mean?
I am pretty sure that with some modified legislation, and a whole load of spin, we could quite easily of put an end to "Freedom of Movement" (in the sense that most DailyFail readers understand it), whilst remaining fully paid up members of the EU! All it needed was the political will to do so.
For my own part I’m genuinely bemused at why such an unimposing, inoffensive and quite frankly boring personality stirs such passions.
Because, as I understand it, he is an ineffectual and indeed, largely absent, opposition ‘leader’ in the current situation, a disingenuous disguiser of his true political position (judged by comparing his political stance of 95% of his career against what he now claims to espouse) and is a creature of the entryist ‘Momentum’ organisation rather than of the Labour Party.
Gove is deciding if he brings it all down at the moment.
Though to sum stuff up my mother came out with the gem that Mogg as PM would be better than Corbyn as he will take away all the assets and give them to poor people.....
Not sure at which point critical thinking was lost on educated people.
Corbyn dropping his support for Brexit and saying that if we got a Labour government that it would offer us the chance to vote to stop it.
And therein lies the problem. At this point in time, any party that goes against the result of the referendum will never be in government. What he is on record as saying and what he has stated repeatedly is that he wants to stop a no deal brexit, either through an election, or if that fails a new referendum. I don't know why people struggle with understanding that.
Bruce Wee - political expediency. His party is badly divided with some rabid anti EU and a lot running scared of the anti immigrant feeling in their constituencies. If he had said - FOM is here to stay he would have been under huge attack from the press and also within his party.
There are plenty of measures we could take to restrict FOM without leaving the EU like many other countries have done as Welshfarmer alludes to. But the tories wanted the supply of cheap labour so never put any of these measures in place
a disingenuous disguiser of his true political position
That all depends on what you consider 'leader' to mean. Is his job to stamp his views on the party? Or to accept the party's views even if he doesn't personally agree?
He's damned if he does either of those two things in the eyes of the press, isn't he?
Seems unimaginable that Gove will stay…and the moment he goes, things get almost impossible for May.
I imagine he's waiting to see if the 48 letters go in.
Mogg has no populist base big enough – trump appealed to disenfranchised rural working class. Mogg has no appeal outside of rabid brexiteers.
52%
BBC news are hinting that the 48 letters are on the desk. This is going to get messy(er) if so.
I believe she will win a no confidence vote.
Gove won't quit there are jellyfish with more backbone.
Mogg has no appeal outside of rabid brexiteers.
52%
Yep it's a number that represents about 36% of the voting public who mostly supported some sort of Brexit. It's not the number who support a complete cluster **** hard brexit
But the tories wanted the supply of cheap labour so never put any of these measures in place
So did Labour... all this crap can’t just be put down to the last shower. I don’t remember the screaming about Eastern European’s coming in and taking jobs in the mid 90s but it was a big news thing by the 2000s.
No government in the last 25 years (perhaps more) has done anything to control borders, build council houses etc other than sound bites and wasted money. This is what lead to here and they are still doing nothing!
I believe she will win a no confidence vote.
Win or lose it makes no odds. The deal is on the table changing leaders doesn’t move us 2 years back in time to restart the negotiations...
Gove is waiting till the last possible minute to see which way the wind is blowing.
I bet he's seen the headline in the Brexiteers Bible (Daily Mail) today and is now worried that jacking it in could put him on the wrong side of the Brexit line.... somewhat ironically! 😆
Its a bitch when you are at the mercy of a Brexit voting public, or daily mail(!) that haven't got a clue what they really wanted from Brexit..... Poor him.😂
any party that goes against the result of the referendum will never be in government
Having another public vote is letting the public "go against the result" … it's down to the voters then, not a few politicians. Forcing this shit storm through now that most people now want to stop it, is not the path to future electoral success for a party who's supporters and voters are against carrying on with Brexit.
Which is why I applaud the move of the labour party towards a second vote. Remember the attacks in the press and from politicians aimed at anyone who suggested this a while back tho.
Its the only way out of this mess.
Corbyn is ruling out a so called second vote if he gets into government. Corbyn is not supporting calls for a so called second vote NOW, when time is fast running out to get one.
Tick.Tock.
Corbyn wants Brexit. I know that Labour members do not, but they are not setting policy on this issue.
I doubt Gove has leadership ambitions right now.
For one thing he's not the darling of the ERG anymore, there are several in the cabinet they'd vote for before him.
Secondly, who would want to be the center of this omnishambles? Better politically to resign, sit on the back benches for a couple of years then come back once your reputations ben rehabilitated. Remember how much we all hated IDS? He now seems almost socialist after a few years of criticising universal credit from the back benches.
I think a NO confidence vote may well be triggered in the tory party against May - but I am pretty sure she would actually win it. This leads us into a nasty stalemete.
The withdrawal bill / deal will be voted down, but May wins a confidence vote both in the tory party and in parliament. Where does this leave us? In complete limbo with no effective government.
the shitstorm we have no will look like a summer day compared to what happens then
As for Gove - a nasty piece of work with ambition beyond his capabilities. He could never win an election. He is as above eyeing up what is best for him and waiting to see which way the wind blows.
Gove only wants one thing
"If chance will have me king, why, chance may crown me, Without my stir."
tho reality is more
"Thou plottest, Blackadder! Thou wouldst be king, and drown Middlesex in a butt of wine!"
It’s not the number who support a complete cluster **** hard brexit
It is also not the number who would see Rees Mogg as the right PM. His popularity declines the more he is on TV which is understandable.
I bet he’s seen the headline in the Brexiteers Bible (Daily Mail) today and is now worried that jacking it in could put him on the wrong side of the Brexit line…. somewhat ironically! 😆
The DM has shifted its position since Dacre retired: now pushing for May's deal rather than the wishes of the ERG. Comments from gammons on Twitter are hilarious.
As for Gove – a nasty piece of work with ambition beyond his capabilities. He could never win an election. He is as above eyeing up what is best for him and waiting to see which way the wind blows.
I find myself conflicted. Obviously he is a duplicitous tory scumbag, yet I know senior people in Defra who speak highly of him - they see him as an effective environment minister.
At this point in time, any party that goes against the result of the referendum will never be in government.
I don't see how anyone can possibly make this claim.
Gove is playing it right. By not accepting the Brexit Minister job he's not seen to be siding with May. By not resigning or writing his letter he's not siding against her.
But the tories wanted the supply of cheap labour so never put any of these measures in place
Did Labour ever put any of these measures in? Remember Blair? He was PM for quite a while, I recall.
Aye - and he is a tory 😉
Not putting in the controls available was a major blunder from Blair
Gove, is by all accounts, a very effective and slick minister. A stickler for detail and one not opposed to being called out for bad decisions or being incapable.
As for PM? Nope, he will (as noted above) sit back and let May take the flack for this hellhole we face then when she has a breakdown step in as some sort of White Brexit Knight complete with St George flag waving “i’ll save you all”
Then kick you all in the balls as he saunters off into Pension ridden retirement.
Like all of them, faced with this decision.
But the tories wanted the supply of cheap labour so never put any of these measures in place
Is this a rant about fruit pickers and people working in bars and restaurants? What about nurses, doctors, lab staff, drivers, teachers, IT professionals… all this conflating of Freedom of Movement of Workers with "cheap labour" is just old and tired and very 2016.
Not putting in the controls available was a major blunder from Blair
It grew our economy and brought a lot of great people here. Many, after injecting their tax money into our state, went home with fond memories of the UK. Those that have stayed are valuable contributing members of our society that some elements of "our people" have picked out as a target for their own political aims. Many now feel unwelcome. Don't be like Nigel. Be better than that TJ.
I don’t see how anyone can possibly make this claim.
Because remainers have been told they have to "get on with it, it's the will of the people" by both major parties.
The lib dems haven't gained any significant support so clearly remainers aren't going to change party allegiance.
Brexiteers on the other hand I imagine would never again vote for Labour or Tory if either actually got a second referendum, and it's more than enough to wipe out Labour in places like Stoke however many young people it might attract as a policy in places they already win convincingly like London. Ditto the Tories, they would lose out massively to UKIP (assuming Farage came back) and Labour (assuming Labour didn't call for a second referendum although given the leaderships complete ineptitude I've no idea what they'd do, at least the Tories are predictable and likely to act either ideologically or out of self preservation).
Brexiteers on the other hand I imagine would never again vote for Labour or Tory if either actually got a second referendum, and it’s more than enough to wipe out Labour in places like Stoke
Missing the polling that a majority in Labour seats support a 2nd referendum?
Missing the polling that a majority in Labour seats support a 2nd referendum?
Makes no odds if that majority wouldn't all vote labour. It only takes a few hundred labour supporting brexiters to be disgruntled in a few marginal constituencies and they've lost a GE.
In a binary black and white world where the labour/tory vote was 50/50 and brexit/remain was 50/50 (and viewed as more important than tribal loyalty) then if either party concedes to a second referendum it immediately loses the next GE by a margin of 75 to 25.
The real world has more shades of grey than that, but in a first past the post system it's those last few tens/hundreds of votes that matter in marginal constituencies, and a few marginal constituencies that get you into government. Look at UKIP, 12.6% of the vote, 1 out of 650 seats, overall popularity doesn't translate to election success.
No one AFAIK has asked the question "if labour supported a second referendum, would you vote for them in a subsequent GE".
Kelvin - I quite agree with you. The controls available tho would have helped stem the tide of anti immigrant feeling rather more than they would have actually reduced the number of immigrants. Things like you cannot come in or stay without a job - that could have been done and thus stop the "Immigrants coming here and stealing our benefits " nonsense
It would have allowed labour to make a "controlled immigration" story rather than being attacked for allowing a flood of drunken poles here which is what the tory press did. Basically removing a stick to beat labour with and removing once source of friction without stopping the flow of essential workers
Believe me - working as I do in the NHS I know the benefits of EU workers.
Bikebouy - ask anyone in Education about him. A vile man and an ideologue who damaged education greatly. Only effective in getting his ideology put in place not in actually following the evidence. See badger cull for one example in defra
The controls available tho would have helped stem the tide of anti immigrant feeling
"Anti-immigrant feeling" is not prevented by stopping people moving for work.
Things like you cannot come in or stay without a job
When did you last meet an EU national in the UK who did not have a job? When did anyone?
[ oh, excluding students ]
What you describe sounds a lot like lots of red tape and a hostile environment for EU/EEA workers to get rid of non-existent non-workers. Some other countries do exactly this to try and placate their nationalist elements… not sure it's working. Keeps some people busy in work checking documentation though I suppose.