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come on binners - quote from the man himself saying he wants a hard brexit? Given how often he has siad the opposite and given how much you hate him you must have something to back your opinion that that is what he wants despite the continual stating of the opposite and his campaigning for remain.
Go on go on go on
So, Labour Brexit, or, after watching the clock run down, not ruling out a referendum once it is far too late. Right.
<div class="bbp-reply-author"><span style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.8rem;">I’m starting to believe that she’s actually played a blinder and managed to fudge it up so much that we actually remain. </span></div>
<div>If that's how it comes out, she is a total legend!</div>
As with all politicians - don’t listen to what they say, watch what they do. He’s a brexiteer. A rabid one. It’s what he wants more than anything. Sorry to disappoint you comrade
so what’s he done?
1. Calling for article 50 to be triggered the day after the referendum
2. 3 line whipping (oh, the irony) his party to trigger Article 50
3. 3 line whipping (irony overload) his party to reject the EEA and membership of the customs union
Are you deluded muppets going to wake up and see this at any point or are you just going to carry on singing OOOOH JEREMY COOORBYN at Glastonbury while you let him carry on with facilitating the hard rights dream Brexit? What he’s always wanted!
Any of you lot planning on equating these things any time soon? Or just listening to the vacuous cloud-cuckooland rhetoric
he doesn’t want what you want. Please wake up FFS?! He’s just a useful idiot for the far right
Ok not wealth takers - service providers? Not being shitty about it but it will be up to SME entrepreneurs to dig is out of this particular mess not type 1 or 2 people.
Its a "make me happy now!" Attitude that boils my piss
Another evidence-free rant, binners. You sound just like a rabid brexiter.
Erm.... ok..,,, how are your A levels going?
so no quotes from him stating he wants a hard brexit.
The best bit binbins is that people like you were instrumental in getting Corbyn elected, and are too dumb to see it.
He wants Brexit.
Ruling out freedom of movement of workers.
He does not want us, the public, to stand in the way of his Brexit.
Oh, I know how we got here. I think we’d Probably agree on that. The way Blair hollowed out the Labour Partyfrom the inside . That’s what created the vacuum. We probably agree on 95% comrade (comrade meant in a genuine manner)
But Corbyn is about as far away from the answer as it’s possible to get. He’s the 1970’s frozen then reanimated. He’s as hardline a brexiteer as Rees Mogg. Because that’s what he believed in 1970. And he’s never changed his opinion since. Whatever you’d like to think/hope
The visual representation of what he represents is this...
The Conservatives must be thankful and pleased that Corbyn is leader of the opposition. For months now May has been getting a rougher time from her own back benches than from Corbyn.
His lameness is now being shown up when May is being questioned more comprehensively by her own cabinet than by him.
He is like a tepid prize fighter going up against Ali, but he can't get a punch in, due to the fact Ali is getting beaten up by Angelo Dundee.
so no quotes from him stating he wants a hard brexit.
He can say all he wants about a soft Brexit but he has ruled out Freedom of Movement so, in effect, can offer little better than May. What alternative does he have up his sleeve that the EU will accept?
May ruled a lot out but look where that left her
Much of the predicament of may is due to the slim majority she has and the divisions within her own party.
A Strong and (somewhat) more united Labour government would be able to impose it's will much more strongly.
There is no benefit to labour revealing it's plans until it has to. It enjoys the advantage of being in opposition. The best position for labour to be in now is to appeal to as many as possible in case of a g.e.
So… call for a general election, and campaign for a "Brexit for all" or "jobs first Brexit" with "an end to freedom of movement of workers"… which would then look different to May's proposals, how?
And so I can understand labour unwillingness to define their version of Brexit. the Tory party are doing well enough destroying themselves on their own, to need labour's opposition much. I reiterate it's not in labour interest to reveal their hand.
That sounds so trustworthy, doesn't it.
Kelvin I don't think it would matter to the majority of the public what it looked like. Just that calm was restored.Bino or remain .
The public are simply fatigued by it now. Was clear on bbcqt there is a lot less gammon frothing. The reality of the mess is so apparent only the most thick are shouting Brexit means Brexit or similar.
To be honest I think bino would have appeased the majority of the idiots who voted for this from day 1
Any party that unleashes a hard brexit within a couple of years maybe months has just destroyed that party due to the pain unleashed. So neither will.
Labour Brexit does not restore calm.
Corbyn will not allow a Labour government to be the ones to stop Brexit.
I'm not voting for Labour again with a vague nod and an wink from a Eurosceptic promising something he thinks is better than the current mess over Brexit.
No point swapping one dead end for another.
Any brexit close to the status quo does, for most people, whoever it's delivered by.
As a remainer Idon't think the TM deal is bad in that context.
It's either the TM deal, conservatives get even softer (gove) or labour soft /remain
Any party that unleashes a hard brexit
Labour whipped for triggering of A50 without a plan to avoid hard Brexit.
Labour whipped for a bill that makes a no deal the default way of exiting.
Labour whipped against an amendment for staying in the Single Market.
Labour whipped against an amendment for staying in the Customs Union.
Labour has made a hard Brexit the only outcome now.
Unless Brexit is stopped.
Much of the predicament of may is due to the slim majority she has and the divisions within her own party.
Much of her predicament is caused by her own doing. "So hows brexit going?" OK, but we can't tell you the details, because its a secret." While remainers knew what was going to happen, while brexiters screamed "project fear!" at them, she and her cohorts including the media kept the reality of brexit from those far less informed because of what we are seeing now, she kicked the can down the road for the last two years.
Well now reality has broken out.
As for the Corbynistas present, his actions speak louder than words. The torys may be bringing the country down, but labour has also seriously contributed to this by simply not being an opposition party.
The actions of both party's should not be forgiven or forgotten once this mess is cleared up.
Interesting that the Daily Mail is now leading with bashing Mogg and the ERG headbangers. <i>"Fury at preening tory saboteurs"</i>. My local MP (Simon Clark) and Mogg-lite gets an honourable mention as one of those putting in a letter. I can't quite see how this will go but it looks like the heavyweights are backing May.
I think for my local MP it's about making a career for himself. He' s a tory representing a marginal seat with a huge Brexit majority. He can see that by going all in for the hard Brexit he boosts his local support. Either way he wins. If he gets a hard full on mental Brexit he gets to claim credit locally. If it all goes wrong he can stand as an independent claiming that he stood firm for his constituents. The flaw in the whole plan is if the whole thing crashes the economy into recession then who knows. Nobody voted to get poorer.
so no quotes from him stating he wants a hard brexit.
No, but the same old Life Of Brian picture. You can't accuse binners of being inconsistent.
May is mentioning No Brexit, Barnier is mentioning No Brexit, Labour six tests pretty much mean no Brexit as no deal with ever meet the 6 six tests and a No Deal will absolutely not meet the six tests.
If we don't have a deal that gets voted through then the parliament can vote on No Brexit as the only option (with the 30 or so ERG people voting against No Brexit and favouring a crash out)
Now, what are the odds on a No Brexit?
Corbyn and Labour also want their cake and eat it. As May found out it won't work with EU
Regarding default position being hard brexit technically yes I agree that is true. However I feel strongly that that wold firstly be in nobodys interests (EU/uk) and also is not implementable by either side due to lack of preparation. Any delays etc. And brexit date will just get deferred.
Therefore exteme low chance of happening. In that respect I guess the brexiters were right.
It's a gigantic bluff call. Both sides are bluffing.
The only ways I can see a hard brexit happening are 1) one of the erg twunts gets the helm (as above I think they are happy to sling shit from the sidelines as it abicates them of responsibility)
Or 2) 2nd ref outcome is hard brexit. That's risk isis w I have mixed views about a 2nd ref.
Just my opinions
Now, what are the odds on a No Brexit?
Remember at the end of March, we crash out if nothing is done to avoid it happening. The default position we are now in is crash out.
Giving time to allow ratification by 27countries, if the deal is not done very soon there will be no time to ratify and we are then left two clear choices. Crash and burn or revoke A50.
Time is working in favour of the ERG.
Crash and burn or revoke A50.
And given those 2 choices which do you see the majority of parliament going for?
The EU would welcome a50 revoke and not put up a single blocker.
And given those 2 choices which do you see the majority of parliament going for?
You assume parliament being asked to vote. It comes down to whether enough in parliament can force a vote in defiance of the executive.
I am hopeful that revocation is the outcome, but not complacent enough to believe it will happen. I haven't seen much to make believe that MPs are worth the money.
TJ,
Corbyn has consistently whipped the party against all the "soft" options that were put forward. He has ruled out freedom of movement.
With this "red line" there is no such thing as a "soft as it can be brexit"
Revocation is certainly odds-on but that's like saying my brakes will probably work if I race full speed towards a cliff edge and pull the levers 2 secs before reaching it. I'd prefer to have a higher certainty before taking the risk.
So non of you actually have any quotes from Corbyn saying he wants a hard brexit. Just the usual made up nonsense. some of that whipping was ill advised, some of it was intended to back May into a corner, some was for political advantage
On a related topic Starmer spent a fair bit of time yesterday doing the chat shows to get the labour positio across. How much reporting of that was there?
TJ, do you seriously dispute that he has ruled out freedom of movement?
That's your hard brexit right there.
Actions speak louder than words TJ
I’d prefer to have a higher certainty before taking the risk.
So would I and many others but you have to go through the motions and try to get a deal even in the knowledge that a deal is never going to get through. That has to go to the last minute to make it credible that a deal was sought. The job then is for the party to spin it (EUs fault) to limit their own damage but it may be too late for that!
Sorry TJ, but he's a hard brexiteer. The votes and the statements against FOM can only be read one way.
Corbyn never got behind the remain campaign & never really argued either way, he's sat on the sidelines throughout.
I do think he's good at what he does, in terms of his arguments & how he conducts himself. However I always got the impression he wanted Brexit.
You guys are so funny
Corbyn campaigned hard for remain. He spoke at more public meetings to more people than any other remain campaigner. He has been consistent in his approach throughout that a hard brexit would be hugely damaging but you all prefer to infer utter nonsense about his position from very limited info, refuse to see the political compromises he had to make to try tokeep a badly divided party together and believe the anti corbyn propaganda in the press.
Its laughable.
a hard brexit would be hugely damaging
He has ruled out freedom of movement.
That's hard brexit.
The votes and the statements against FOM can only be read one way.
They clearly can be read multiple ways since that's what's happening here. Poor argument. For a change I actually side with TJ here. I think the anticorbs are seeing what they want to see more so than the procorbs.