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[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

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At least the whole country can unite in hating her.


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 5:20 pm
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Feel free to comment

Looks like you are just continuing your very tired crusade against Corbyn and of course comrade is name calling.  I like what Corbyn has done for Labour and I think his position on Brexit is all he can do in his position (same as May).  I don't see myself as a 'comrade; though thanks.

However, it is now up to the MPs to actually vote in line with what they think is best.  I am no fan of Brexit but seeing as it is going to happen in some shape or form I would vote for the closest thing there is to it and not really care what Corbyn was asking em to do (just as he did for most of his career!)


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 5:25 pm
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Daz - I truly believe that those who want a hard Brexit, on the left or the right, won't for one second say the real reason:

They want the chaos it'll cause to push through policies that they wouldn't have a cat in hells chance of getting through under normal circumstances. In that, I don't see any difference in motivation between Rees-Mogg and Corbyn

Though Disasster Socialism is a novel concept


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 5:26 pm
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I would vote for the closest thing there is to it and not really care what Corbyn was asking em to do (just as he did for most of his career!

Yet the serial rebel 3-line-whipped his MPs to vote through Article 50. Not much tollerence of people voting with their consinces there, is there?

I've no doubt he'll do the same this time. 3 line whip Labour MPs for whatever will bring about the hard brexit he clearly wants

The hypocrisy is breathtaking!


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 5:30 pm
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scotroutes

REUTERS: BREXIT: DOWNING STREET OFFICIAL SAYS PM MAY EXPECTED TO MAKE STATEMENT OUTSIDE HER OFFICE FOLLOWING CABINET MEETING APPROX 1700 GMT (Reuters alerts always in caps)

now saying 7pm.....


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 5:59 pm
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I’ve no doubt he’ll do the same this time. 3 line whip Labour MPs for whatever will bring about the hard brexit he clearly wants

this wont be remembered as a corbyn/labour brexit (even if they helped it along)

Iraq War vote wouldve been lost by Labour - Corbyn, Abbot, Cook & >30% of labour MPs rebelled, only passed because 90% of Tory MPs voted for it

but thats not how history remembers it


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 6:03 pm
 dazh
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In that, I don’t see any difference in motivation between Rees-Mogg and Corbyn

There's no difference in the intention to create real change rather than maintaining the status quo, but in every other way they are poles apart so comparing Corbyn to Rees-Mogg is pretty unfair.

As much as I'm utterly opposed to brexit, I find myself asking if it would be worth it in order to bring in properly radical policies such as UBI, a 4 day week, sustainable growth economics, fossil fuel free energy, unionised/cooperatively run industrial relations etc? Is that socialist utopia? I have no idea. I don't think it is in the classical sense, instead it looks very much to me like a modern political system which faces up to the modern problems (climate change, automation, oligarchy) and as far as I can see that's where the labour party is headed, which is the polar opposite of JRM et al. I don't know however whether that's dependent on brexit, but if it is I might be persuaded that it's a price worth paying.


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 6:16 pm
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Of Corbyn came out and explained why the EU is bad thing  it might help.

But sitting there and doing nothing just makes him look like he's scared.


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 6:25 pm
 dazh
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Of Corbyn came out and explained why the EU is bad thing  it might help.

I suspect his stance on the EU is a tad more nuanced than whether it is simply good or bad. There's plenty to criticise, and also plenty to support. This is the problem with brexit obviously in asking people to take an absolutist position on something that has many pros and cons.


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 6:31 pm
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Anybody watching?

Cabinet meeting overrunning. No statement this evening.

Never mind Parliament, it might not even get past Cabinet.

General Election anybody?


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 6:49 pm
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In that case I’ll stick with my impression that its actually because you don’t have any answers. Like I said, I’ve no idea how you’re squaring this circle of support for Corbyn while all evidence points to him being a Hard Brexiteer who wants nothing more than a no deal Brexit

And I'll stick with my impression that you're an empty vessel, a petulant school child who plays to the gallery when he doesn't get his own way, isn't remotely interested in anything other than the sound of his own voice, and would much rather fling shit from the tree than actually do anything about the things he pretends to care about.


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 6:51 pm
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BBC now saying might not find out until tomorrow now, May has cancelled her press conference.

That's a lot of grandstanding from the brexiters before they finally capitulate.


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 6:53 pm
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Apparently May will now make a statement


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 6:56 pm
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**** this I'm off?


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 6:59 pm
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Apparently May will now make a statement

Waiting till the financial markets closed? Or till the evening editions have already been printed?


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 7:04 pm
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<div class="bbp-reply-author">zippykona
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<div class="">Subscriber</div>
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<div class="bbp-reply-content">

Of Corbyn came out and explained why the EU is bad thing  it might help.

He spent the entire pre-referendum campaign explaining why staying in the EU was a good thing.

</div>


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 7:05 pm
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At least the whole country can unite in hating her.

I don't, not over this anyway. As a remainer who feels the referendum should be honoured she's in a terrible position. With the details revealed so far I'm not sure what more she could do. Nothing will please remainers and as said there's 17 million different brexit opinions. My self despite believeing the referendum should be respected, a second referendum on the deal, when we have the full details might be a way out of this mess.


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 7:08 pm
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Really ? Her errors have made a bad situation much worse, calling early GE forcing her to rely on DUP, 'citizens of nowhere' speech & refusing to condem 'enemies of the people' attack on judges alienating remainers further, triggering A50 too early, agreeing EU schedule that even EU negotiators thought we'd object to, alienating EU by trying to cherrypick & go round barnier to nation heads, contradictory red lines, appointing Davis & Johnson .....

That's before you look at her littany of errors as home sec, many of which have compounded current issues....


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 7:20 pm
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If this sweeps away the Tory old guard (Peter Bone etc.) Even if they totter off to UKIP then some good may (no pun) come of this fiasco. We could be watching the end of a political party as we know it.

There is a sesmic split and i doubt many will eat the shit sandwich thats just been put been put in front of them.


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 7:48 pm
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Thanks for your careful, considered answer to the question I asked you ransos.

Youre a true protégé of your hero. Going out of your way to engage with people who don’t agree with you and convince them of the validly of your  arguament.

Anyway... back in the real world...  the cabinet apparently have to be unanimous in their approval before they can progress anything. Fat chance!

The odds on that 10/1 on her being gone by today look good now.

There was a Tory on Five Live before saying that Article 50 should be suspended immediately

Mad times!


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 8:04 pm
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So apparently everyone in the cabinet has signed up for her proposal? Same as Chequers?

We can expect a couple of resignations within the next few hours then?


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 8:36 pm
 myti
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OMFG the state of that gammon on channel 4 news just now and his hand puppet daughter!


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 8:42 pm
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Going out of your way to engage with people who don’t agree with you and convince them of the validly of your  arguament.

You're the expert there.


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 8:44 pm
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The “my heart” thing tells me it’s personal.  She’s failed an agreement and she’ll resign.


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 8:44 pm
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So the cabinet spent 5 hours grandstanding & then agreed anyway, what a surprise 🙄 !


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 8:57 pm
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"As much as I’m utterly opposed to brexit, I find myself asking if it would be worth it in order to bring in properly radical policies such as..."

But this is the blue unicorn/red unicorn thing isn't it. What have those policies got to do with Brexit? Labour could just put them in the manifesto and campaign on them at the next GE.


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 8:58 pm
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The gammon on channel 4 news was terrifying!

“Why do the French own our water?!! It’s about ENGERLAND!!”

WTF?!

interesting that you had 3 Tory MPs interviewed (one being double-breasted sock-puppet Rees Mogg obviously). One said the rejection of Mays fudge would mean no brexit, one (Rees Mogg, obviously) that it would mean crashing out with no deal, the other that it would mean a second referendum

What a total ****ing farce!


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 9:02 pm
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That will go some way to healing divisions just because there is no other option than to get on with it.

No option but to get on with it but no divisions will be healed. There will not be more money for public services, greater freedom of movement for British workers, everyone won’t suddenly own a house etc. Any deal will enrich the few and overall people will sufferat least in the short- medium term


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 9:07 pm
 dazh
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What have those policies got to do with Brexit? Labour could just put them in the manifesto and campaign on them at the next GE.

Hence why I said I didn't know! There are EU rules that prevent certain policies (state support for industry etc). I don't know much of the detail but if these sort of policies were prevented by being a member of the EU then that would make me consider whether it's worth being a member.

And talking of gammons, here's something that's been going round on facebook and sadly popped up on my timeline....

R.I.P. Gt Britain!!! You are too soft. You raised the cost of living so high that both parents are always at work, rather than spending time with their children. You took God out of schools. Parents were told 'No you can't discipline your kids'. Well, Gt Britain You shall reap what you sow, and we have lost a whole generation and turned them into rude, selfish, disrespectful brats who have no respect for people, property or authority! You deemed people with terminal illnesses<span class="text_exposed_show"> and some with only a few months to live…fit for work!!! You allow our veterans of war to go homeless and hungry but give out millions to foreign aid!!! You stop people’s entitlement to welfare benefits thus leaving them so desperate that they commit suicide!! You bend over backwards to be politically correct, too scared to say enough is enough, in case you offend. You put the retirement age up so people must work until they drop!! People depend on handouts and food banks, whilst we give aid to others. Our retired generation rely on inadequate state pensions, their thanks for working hard. Things need to change! Copy & paste if you have the guts too!!!</span>


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 9:10 pm
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The gammon on channel 4 news was terrifying!

“Why do the French own our water?!! It’s about ENGERLAND!!”

WTF?!

interesting that you had 3 Tory MPs interviewed (one being double-breasted sock-puppet Rees Mogg obviously). One said the rejection of Mays fudge would mean no brexit, one (Rees Mogg, obviously) that it would mean crashing out with no deal, the other that it would mean a second referendum

What a total ****ing farce!

At least one of the 3 is going to be right


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 9:11 pm
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Anyway… back in the real world…  the cabinet apparently have to be unanimous in their approval before they can progress anything. Fat chance!

30 minutes later

So apparently everyone in the cabinet has signed up for her proposal? Same as Chequers?

I actually think I Pee'd in my own bath water sadly in the real world ....sure fire not a ****ing chance to oh shit in 30 minutes it made me giggle


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 9:17 pm
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I have that horrible sinking feeling I know which one


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 9:17 pm
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I have that horrible sinking feeling I know which one

Dont beat yourself up for the first time they actually had all bases covered....which is a start I suppose


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 9:20 pm
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I don’t know much of the detail

Correct.


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 9:24 pm
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If labour get in next they'll be able to blame anything and everything on brexit for years!


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 9:27 pm
 dazh
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Correct.

By that I meant I don't know if the EU obstructs transformative radical policies. I suspect not, which is why I'm pro-EU membership. It would take a lot to change that.


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 9:34 pm
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‘For the first time they had all the bases covered?

In the same way a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day?

Remember when they all walked out of Chequers smiling, raising glasses, saying they were all in agreement, then as soon as he was out of there David Davis resigned, then Boris?

Nobody said a bloody word as they walked out of Downing Street tonight, all with faces like smacked arses.

I’d be amazed if we make it through the night without any resignations.

Its now laughable to even refer to this rabble as a government


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 9:38 pm
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In the same way a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day?

Possibly


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 9:43 pm
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DUPed

Or how big a bung this time gladys


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 9:44 pm
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Bring Blair and Mandleson back, quick for the love of god, we didn't mean the war criminal stuff - we forgive you Tony. Just come back and sort these ****ing idiots out. Things were rock n roll when we had you, I mean...Oasis and wars and shit.....it all seems so fun now. Please come back. The countries being run by senile, batty dementia ridden weirdos  - it's just not cool or funny anymore.


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 10:02 pm
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So apparently everyone in the cabinet has signed up for her proposal? Same as Chequers?

We can expect a couple of resignations within the next few hours then?

Yep that was exactly my take on it too.

Still, Rees-Mogg hates it so that's a plus point.


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 10:05 pm
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I thought the C4 news section at the Doncaster market was a funny but tragic metaphor for post Brexit trade. Reminded me of this comedy sketch about why Germans can't get enough of English markets.

I felt for the EU supporting trader who would have to pass on the increased cost of his hand grenades to his Dutch customers.


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 10:31 pm
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It’s not a light read that document 🙂

hmm whens the vote then should be interesting.


 
Posted : 14/11/2018 11:03 pm
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