But… durians…
Well, with Trump including them in his protectionist trade war, there will be plenty spare looking for a market. What a nice guy that Trump is, choosing to target durian fruit. Why did he pick durians? I wonder…
IT MAY, HOWEVER, BE A MISTAKE TO JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS - sums up people taking a vote to Leave as a vote validating their own particular peccadillo, and politicans assuming areas of the country/electorate support their own personal red lines, stated only after the vote took place.
anti-Semitism is bad unless it gets in the way of brexit, obvs
https://twitter.com/henrymance/status/1041300919353257984?s=19
If you voted for brexit to reduce bureaucracy, you’ve made a very foolish mistake
EU bureaucracy encroach on the sovereign of a nation, just like the recent case of Hungary being threaten with sanctions (remember they have democratically elected their govt), while UK bureaucracy creates jobs albeit not the best but so be it. I know which one I prefer. 😀
The bureaucracy that allows Windrush to happen.
Chewk, you'd better make sure all your papers are in order.
At the moment, this is not the course of action being proposed in the case of Hungary, although in theory that route remains open to the EU at a later stage.
🙄
All hail the killfile. 🙌
remember they have democratically elected their govt
Just because a government is democratically elected does not mean that every policy it comes up with is favoured by the majority. See poll tax and also Iraq war.
Gove is great isn't he - I am assuming Pob is promising a GE if the rest of his rabble depose May?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45541240
Of course he isn't suggesting a GE - no doubt his view is that democracy will be best served by removing May and allowing the tory party membership to decide on what is best for the country... 🙂
Hitler was democratically elected IIRC...
the NSDAP never had a majority Hindenburg handed the reigns of power to hitler and he used them to try and crush all opposition and pervert the political process but still didn't manage to achieve a majority so he just "legislated" a defacto dictatorship.
Just saw a discussion on telly between an older leaver and a younger remainer.
The difference in motivation was quite clear. The younger wanted the freedom to follow the work that is provided by the EU. The older objected to the ‘allegiance’ required and did not want to be part of a ‘Federated’ state.
What’s wrong with being part of a federated state? Oh - it signals the death of royalty, now avoided by the withdrawal into the little Ruritanian mole-mound that the U.K. is becoming...
National borders are pretty stupid in this day and age.
And how many Brexiteers have the cheek to resist federation into the EU on principle whilst at the same time supporting the 'union' of Scotland and England which was much more drastic?
What’s wrong with being part of a federated state? Oh – it signals the death of royalty
Plenty of monarchies in the EU.
National borders are pretty stupid in this day and age.
Indeed. I had a long and fruitless debate with a brexiteer work colleague recently where I attempted to illustrate the issue by asking why we shouldn't have a border between the north and south of England. He couldn't get his head around it at all. I find it quite weird that people are so attached to arbitrary administrative lines in the sand which are the result of feudal battles fought centuries ago.
Paul Mason tweeted yesterday -
I understand that of 272 motions received for Labour conference 150 are on Brexit including more than 100 calling for general election/second referendum
If true it could be embarrassing for Corbyn, unless he does actually intend to make good on his undertaking to devolve decisions on Party policy to the membership.
Easy way out for him if so.
I don't agree it's an easy way out for him. He's already got a way out, the "6 tests" mean Labour will oppose any Tory Brexit "plan". This could be awkward because he'd have to commit Labour to an actual course of action rather than wait for it all to go tits up and hope to capitalise on the chaos.
Labour policy used to be made by conference before Blair removed internal democracy and made it a top down organisation
Of course "made by conference" never meant "set by members". One word… unions. Current system gives Labour members far more say (although doesn't go as far as the LibDems & SNP), but on this particular topic, Momentum successfully persuaded members to keep discussion low key, and avoid another vote on another vote. That option is less likely to be available to the Leadership this conference…
I got annoyed last week when the BBC news had a sound bite from the Wetherspoon's guy saying that food would get cheaper with a Hard Exit. Just a 10 second clip of him but no follow up. Perhaps they could ask him how?
Food from the EU won't get cheaper unless the pound goes up in value (unlikely in short or medium term).
UK grown food won't get cheaper as we lose cheap EU labour and EU grants.
So cheap food from US etc? Won't that just wipe out UK framing?
What makes me really despair is that May is still saying "chequers or no deal" when chequers is never going to be acceptable to the EU .
Lagarde said a no deal Brexit would be very bad for the British economy. Asked to explain why, she said:
<div class="quoted__contents">
It would be a shock to supply, and would result in reduced growth, increased deficit, depreciation of the currency ... and in reasonable short order, it would mean a reduction in the size of the UK economy.
</div>
More lies THM?
BBC Breakfast had loads of people on to talk about brexit this morning. It was interesting that all the things the brexiters wanted to end were abstract - sovereignty, control and so on. They were never asked what they thought was wrong with pooling sovereignty, or moving to a federal Europe. There was one woman whose big issue was than criminals had a right of appeal to the ECJ and we couldn't just lock them all up, and one bloke who's case for leaving the EU was that it would make us a more optimistic country.
I'm pissed off enough that my children's future is being screwed up, but to have it screwed up by people like this just makes me want to cry. Even the people who were trying to put a positive case for Leave seemed to base it nothing more than wishful thinking and a belief that we will get a deal better than the status quo, which by now you would have thought that even they could see is utter nonsense.
On another forum a while back someone told me she voted for Brexit because nobody in her village knew their neighbors anymore and Brexit would bring communities together again.
which by now you would have thought that even they could see is utter nonsense.
Good luck with that. What I’m seeing is it’s all remainers fault or the incompetence of politicians.
Some Brexiter on the radio just now saying 'lots of countries have integrated supply chains without being in the EU'.
The point he seems to miss is that these countries never started off in the EU then left it. We built our businesses on better relationships than their free-trade agreements, and are now having to rearrange it all. Things that were previously viable may not be. Companies invested in the UK because of the good trading arrangements that have no been revoked. UK companies previously had competitors, now we have countries and governments competing against us as well who can manipulate the trading arrangements to the benefit of companies in their own countries.
On The World at One Lord Lamont was allowed to get away with claiming that 'No Deal Brexit' meant 'WTO Terms' and tha lots of countries traded on WTO terms so that would be fine. The interviewer should have pointed out that this was a lie - but of course didn't.
According to The Economist
It is also misleading to claim that the rest of the world trades with the EU on WTO terms. The Institute for Government, a think-tank in London, notes that all big countries have bilateral agreements on such trade-facilitating measures as customs co-operation, data exchange and standards. Hosuk Lee-Makiyama of ECIPE, a Brussels-based think-tank, says that only seven countries trade with the EU on WTO terms alone—and they are small fry like Cuba and Venezuela.
In any case, reverting to WTO rules is not simple. Britain was a founder of the organisation but now belongs as an EU member. To resume WTO membership independently will require a division of EU import quotas, notably for beef, lamb and butter. A first effort was roundly rejected by big food exporters like Brazil, Argentina and America. The WTO proceeds by consensus among its 164 members. Were Britain to leave the EU on acrimonious terms, negotiating its resumption of full WTO membership could be difficult.
That's before you even start worrying about Trump's attempts to derail the WTO entirely.
The point he seems to miss is that these countries never started off in the EU then left it.
A point missed by most Brexiters. As I have said before, if we were not already in the EU I wouldn't vote to join it but that is very different to voting to leave it.
I’m pissed off enough that my children’s future is being screwed up, but to have it screwed up by people like this just makes me want to cry. Even the people who were trying to put a positive case for Leave seemed to base it nothing more than wishful thinking and a belief that we will get a deal better than the status quo, which by now you would have thought that even they could see is utter nonsense.
Absobloodylutely correct. You took the words right out of my mouth. My kids future is being screwed up by thick people.
Hey, you're not allowed to call them thick. Even though they are.
Lots, and lots, of very smart people also voted for some nebulous idea of freedom and sovereignty, and the associated curtailing of our kids' rights and opportunities (not to mention yours and mine).
Simplistically
Intelligent Brext voters = people who are rich or hope to get something personally from it (but they won't tell you what it is as they would appear to be proper ****s)
Thick Brexit voters = people who really do not understand the complexities of it and are stupid enough to believe the press/leave campaign, their just as stupid friends etc,.
Racist Brexit voters = people who just want less immigration and that is never going to happen whilst being in EU
So cheap food from US etc? Won’t that just wipe out UK framing?
That’s a bleak picture.
Don't forget those that genuinely believe the country as a whole can benefit from Brexit because the "protectionist EU" stops us taking full advantage of globalisation… not to be confused with those that genuinely believe the country as a whole can benefit from Brexit because we can then stop the advancement of globalisation, currently enabled by the "liberal globalist elite supporting EU" forcing us to open up our markets and industries to foreign types.
They fit within the Thick and/or Racist
Just heard jaguar castle Bromwich down to 3 days a week due to Brexit uncertainty
Thick Brexit voters
That is flawed though since it includes misinformed.
Reminds me of what Richard Dawkins had to say about it. Namely that it shouldnt be left to a poorly informed group of voters. Which needless to say had people ranting and raving about what an elitist he was whilst missing the minor detail he specifically included himself in the group
Simplistically
Intelligent Brext voters = people who are rich or hope to get something personally from it (but they won’t tell you what it is as they would appear to be proper ****)
Thick Brexit voters = people who really do not understand the complexities of it and are stupid enough to believe the press/leave campaign, their just as stupid friends etc,.
Racist Brexit voters = people who just want less immigration and that is never going to happen whilst being in EU
Fairly easy to straddle those 3 categories. I’d wager the Wetherspoons guy is rich, thick and racist
And a ****.
It's fair to say there are plenty of thick remain voters too. It's basically luck that their thickness didn't have such a poor outcome in that specific vote. And also clever leave voters (I know a few) who basically don't care about the harm which won't affect them directly (rich pensioners) while they fantasise about the rebirth of the empire.
If you want stupid reasons for voting leave, I used to work with a Polish guy that voted to Leave because "that'll get rid of the Muslims"😕
Is this thread still going on and on?
I got annoyed last week when the BBC news had a sound bite from the Wetherspoon’s guy saying that food would get cheaper with a Hard Exit. Just a 10 second clip of him but no follow up. Perhaps they could ask him how?
I'm no fan of SKY, but their Brexit coverage has been far superior to the BBC. Sky have focused much of their coverage on the economic and social issues brexit will cause, breaking it down into manageable chunks.
The BBC have principally focused on the political issues, which is why the only "experts" you are getting making comments on Brexit on the BBC are pricks like that weatherspoons bloke, total nutter brexiters, or those trying to sit on the fence in the hope that their jobs will be safe(MP's).
Brexit will happen. The return will also happen.
Interesting article on how people would vote now:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45098550
Unfortunately not particularly encouraging from my point of view as despite younger people being generally against Brexit, they are less likely to get off their arses and actually vote!
Pretty disgusting how people who had all the advantages of EU membership are keen to bugger it up for everyone else.
Fairly easy to straddle those 3 categories. I’d wager the Wetherspoons guy is rich, thick and racist
Not really as you can't be intelligent and thick. I would put Weatherspoons guy in "do not understand the complexities of it" having listened to him on radio.
He sells old beer and cheap food, this apparently makes him a top level economist worthy of TV time.
This (him) is why its a load of bollocks and lies.
Sorry just because you are rich does not make you intelligent or well informed.
I dont drink in his shitholes and a mate of mine got barred for ripping up his pro Brexit beer mats..
Gove's antisemitism line is just incredible. And really shows up the total
Mr Woppit
Member
But… durians…
Which we already have! Durian fruit as a metaphor for the entire Leave campaign. Smells weird and once you swallow it, you smell weird too.
(disclaimer- I like durian- but I'm aware that I can't eat it in my office because other people will gag when I breathe near them)