THM is a busted flush, despite his supercilious attitude his inability to correctly understand the economic impacts demonstrates that he doesn't actually have much of a clue about what he's talking about.
The people who failed to plan for the change in public opinion and failed to present a positive case for membership of the EU
the vote will have been respected the day we end membership of the EU
skin in the game? Interest in how we will continue access in theory and in practice and what a new model will look like. Exciting times ahead. I like change and working out how to respond.
Why wouldn’t you and your kids be able to work in the EU? The EU has millions of non eu migrants every year.
You and also Jamba fail to appreciate the difference between visa-based migration and free movement.
Non-EU migration is not open to everyone. You have to qualify for it. Before I was married to an American I looked into trying to move to the US. Now, you might say that tens of thousands of people migrate to the US every year, so why not me? Well, the list is long. You only qualify for certain reasons, and despite being highly skilled in a demand area, I qualified for none of them. So you cannot simply decide to go - you ALSO need to have a way in, and these are most emphatically NOT open to everyone.
I saw one forecast that projected that the E7 economies could be double that of the G7 economies.
Alright, but might the EU as a whole not be able to strike better deals than the little UK? Are the EU not pursuing trade deals with the E7? I thought the EU was meant to be neoliberalist? Surely they will be in favour of free trade if so?
Exciting times ahead. I like change and working out how to respond.
Unfortunately those who struggle to eat each day won't find it so exciting.
So how to make money out of the UK stumbling then.
Opinions show brexit is not not the popular opinion. It is shown by the unwillingness to even consider asking people any more. Perusing a course that people don't want is political suicide, it's dangerous for the country and will hurt a lot of people.
Less exciting than not being able to eat now?
I've worked out how to respond, it involves Estonian e-residency and a move/reincorporation of my company over there so we can continue to access EU funding and collaboration opportunities. Just a few tens of thousands of pounds in taxes going overseas, no-one in power is going to lose any sleep over it (it's more of a hobby than a real job), but it all adds up.
Of course it may not be necessary, the govt has said some vague words along the right lines, but vague words butter no parsnips.
Respect the vote?
The referendum was based on lies and corrupt money, putting an uninformed electorate in a position they should never have been in in the first place. Any decisions around leaving / remaining in the EU should have been made in Whitehall under proper scrutiny by the people we've democratically voted to make those decisions for us in our best interests. We discussed this months ago, "the people" aren't equipped to make that kind of decision and what they - we - think we "want" is an irrelevance. I want a free solid gold house and never to pay taxes again, does that make it a good idea? Shall we have a vote on it?
I acknowledge the result and I accept it, but I sure as shit don't "respect" it. It was an insane folly from the outset.
Enjoy captain sounds exciting
mike still the same argument that lost last time - move on. You need a positive message. Fear doesn’t work
Next step examine the deal in the same way any other bill through parliament would be.
Which will happen, but the difference is, if a Bill is not passed nothing changes, if "the deal" isn't approved we leave without a deal.
Be careful what you wish for
You need a positive message. Fear doesn’t work
Stay in the EU, you can have food AND Medicine, thats positive.
Nowhere near as positive as vote leave or millions of dirty immigrants will kill you and your family.
If none of the messages are working why are more people now pro remain?
Remain has been ahead since about April 17 I'm amazed that you have not picked up on that at all. I'm stunned that you think the message is failing as the complete shambles of a government fails to negotiate anything that keeps anyone happy! So if the polls are showing remain being in the majority what has been swaying people apart from the facts and messages that have come out?
Which will happen, but the difference is, if a Bill is not passed nothing changes, if “the deal” isn’t approved we leave without a deal.
If it comes to that I'd expect some emergency legislation being passed to deal with it. Especially if there is very little public appetite for either option
Any decisions around leaving / remaining in the EU should have been made in Whitehall under proper scrutiny by the people we’ve democratically voted to make those decisions for us in our best interests.
They were, Parliament voted to exercise Article 50 by a substantial majority.
Daily Mail editor changes shortly too - that'll be interesting in terms of the general message.
Even the Daily Star are leading with a vaguely anti-Brexit message today.
If it comes to that I’d expect some emergency legislation being passed to deal with it.
Who is going to sponsor the relevant bill?
Are you suggesting no food and medicines after Brexit. Shit, you may be correct. We should be very afraid.
A new vote
Do you want to have food and medcines?
Do you want to end membership of the EU?
ok lies and deceit aside, you could be on to something there. Even the oldies might fall for it
Who is going to sponsor the relevant bill?
Lets see how bad the deal looks
Are you suggesting no food and medicines after Brexit. Shit, you may be correct. We should be very afraid.
Nah just trying leave tactics of promising anything I feel like. But the real question is if the facts emerging (or fear as you like to call them) don't work why is remain the preferred choice in the polls and has been for over a year?
Its really bad, who is going to sponsor the bill?
Guess we would find out, lots can happen in there, vote of no confidence in the government for example, DUP getting pissed off so lets just wait and see.
It's weird to see people who claim to have voted remain, so desperate to deliver something they can't define to an electorate who don't want it anymore. It's like some kind of political masochism. Unless it benefits them personally of course.
It can’t be Corbyn. He is a conviction politician who has commited his party to a (jobs first) Brexit. Ditto the Tories.
Enter Chukka stage left (exit unproven allegations stage right) with a new time to shine...
Brexit exiting ?
Only if it doesn't affect your life like being allowed to live and work in the UK with your UK family.
Your sense of superiority and invincibility is very high.
So still the wise ones can't tell me how public opinion has shifted so much. While the messages being used don't work.
Don’t believe the scare stories. I have lived and worked in the Eu and elsewhere in them world.
Nothing to do with superiority. Just stick to basic facts not fear.
The point of the question is, of course, that you are reliant upon the Government to sponsor the Bill if it is going to have any chance of passing into law, because that is the only way sufficient time will be made available. A very important lesson in the importance in having the power to put forward legislation.
I am not particularly desperate to see it happen, but I see it as the inevitable consequence of what has already been put on the Statute Book.
So still the wise ones can’t tell me how public opinion has shifted so much.
I am sceptical it has, when John Curtice says there has been a decisive shift I will believe it, but he hasn't to date.
The whole bacon butty thing has been sorted though, right?
We'll still have bacon Butties in April?
Well the facts are that at today date I would not be guaranteed to stay and live in the UK. End of.
Yeah but you are foreign and we voted against that. Though as more of the truths come out the worse it sounds. Getting a much harder sell.
Obviously it was the Will of the People and we all voted for it and are united behind it. Until the tories change their minds at which point something else will be the Will of the People that we all voted for and are united behind.
Have labour already changed their minds then? Missed that. And here was me thinking corbyn was good for his word. I could have sworn he was behind respecting the vote. Even more than the nasties in fact
It can’t be Corbyn. He is a conviction politician who has commited his party to a (jobs first) Brexit. Ditto the Tories.
Just what is that? Is it any better than a Red White and Blue Brexit? How will either party fulfil that commitment?
Not sure. But good to see someone with a positive Brexit vision. Bravo Jezza
the question is more how would either party go back on their commitments
Have labour already changed their minds then? Missed that. And here was me thinking corbyn was good for his word.
Well like a democratic organisation people can propose things and vote on them at their conferences. People are also able to revise their positions based on an evolving situation - not we have stopped burning witches as that turned out to be a bad idea.
Can you imagine only being able to hold one position despite receiving new information?
someone with a positive Brexit vision
Ha ha. We've been fed plenty of positive Brexit fantasies over the past few years.
And now we have the doomsday versions - fantastically awful
Sorry what is the positive version? Apart it being a bit exciting not knowing what stuff will cost after Brexit.
Jezza is going to use it to create jobs. He’s mentioned it several times. Kier never looks convinced but there you go
THM,
You mean the Govt's own analysis of 2-8% loss of GDP? Some other analyses put that as optimistic.
Or was it the stockpiling of medicines and portaloos along the M11? I thought you were encouraging people to prepare.
Here you go with Jezzas vision:
But Labour is ready.
Ready to deliver a deal that gives British businesses and British society the chance to thrive in a post-Brexit world.
A deal that will allow us to upgrade our economy through public investment in infrastructure and high skilled jobs
A deal that will make Britain a centre for science, technology and research, attracting the brightest and best from around the country and the world, through strategic investment.
A deal that allows us to transform Britain into a country with the strongest rights and protections, and ends exploitation and undercutting in the labour market.
A deal that allows us to become a country that values and protects its public services and invests in its communities.
And a deal that will allow Britain to be a safe and outward looking country, strengthening friendships and working with allies to create a better future for our country, continent and our planet.
Sounds great doesn’t it. I hope we hear more at conference comrades
Look! A squirrel! And a Euro!
It gets better
Instead, Labour will negotiate a tariff-free deal with the EU, which will benefit both sides, and we will transform our economy for a post-Brexit Britain through a new industrial strategy, that will use powers returned from Brussels, and will rewrite the rules of our economy, so that it serves the interests of the many rather than the few.
No wonder he’s doing well in the polls.
Sounds great doesn’t it. I hope we hear more at conference comrades
and as plausible as the others, which is reflected in public opinion.
Look! A squirrel! And a Euro!
Quite.
Kier never looks convinced but there you go
That's because it falls to the likes of Kier to deliver the nebulous policies put forward by their leaders.
Jezzas policy (is it a policy, or just a selection of words) would seem to involve the same amounts of magic fairies and unicorns as David Davis Irish border 'solution'
What a choice eh folks?
CAKE FOR EVERYONE!!!
And now we have the doomsday versions – fantastically awful
Well, to be honest, in response to all the examples of the horrendous problems that the U.K. will face if it crashes out without a deal (the NI horror show being just one example) I haven’t read one sensible outline of how any of these can be sorted out, just a lot of variations on “it’ll all work out don’t worry” and unsubstantiated claims of rosy future benefits of one kind or another.
Like your (teamhm) posts, in fact... 🤔
