Corbyn said he would try to get a general election if there was a bad deal.
What is his definition of a bad deal?
Does anyone know?
Marr summed it up today
65 weeks of talks gone, 6 to go
The Tories havent yet decided amongst themselves what they want from Brexit, so they havent been able to start negotiating with the EU yet!
What is his definition of a bad deal?
Does anyone know?
Does it matter? I think he means he's going to go for it anyway!
What is his definition of a bad deal?
Depends who who you talk to
for mogg if we don’t return to the 1850s it’s a bad deal
for Corbyn if we don’t return to the 1970s it’s a bad deal
for Ninfan if he has not personally chosen who the immigrants allowed in are it is a bad deal 😛
for me if we do not retain free movement of people and goods the way we have now its a bad deal (but not so much for me as I have an EU passport too)
What would demanding a GE do? In 6 weeks the deal is made if there is a GE early next year there may be time to get a new crack squad in place ready to just sign off on whatever has gone before. Now is too late he needed to act 2 years ago
lm pretty sure the EU would extend negotiations for a new government
Maybe they would
trouble is that the “deal” would only be voted on in Westminster and the 27 states after it has been nominally agreed. If the EU 27 all say this is good with us but we turn round and say no this is no good and by the way we are going to fight amongst ourselves for another year how much patience do theyHave?
would it not be that we would move to the fall back position which I also guess needs to be agreed and voted upon?
Corbs doesn't want the 1970s, he wants the late 1940s.
This just needs turning on its head. Try to negotiate a “better” deal, or if negotiations fail we simply revert to the status quo i.e. remain members.
That way the 52% get their shot, and if they blow it at least they had the opportunity to try, and the rest of us can get on with our lives.
As ever, @SimeOnStylites pressés the looming situation quite well. One of the salient points being that if the government’s Brexit position (à la Lanc House) is failing, then so is Labour’s.
good thread:
https://twitter.com/sime0nstylites/status/1013646549660954624?s=21
What did the eu ever do for us
Don’t forget how you used to get rippped off on the mobi when abroad that was a great moneymaker.
We have taken back control. And handed it to the phone companies.
Another cabinet Chequers away day this week then?
What was The definition of insanity again? Oh yeah.... doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?
Two groups of people with entrenched, totally opposing views, who loath one another, presided over by a 'leader' without a shred of authority?
Im sure it'll all be sorted in no time then
So while ninfan gets all bothered about immigrants stealing all our NHS jobs or something...
We eagerly await May's 3rd way on customs & trade, it's got to be a bit less '**** business' than Borris would like, a bit more like the golden days of empire for Mogg, functional enough for the saner MPs, palatable to the EU & at least 10 pages thick so Gove has to rip each page individuallly rather than in one mighty shred.
Two groups of people with entrenched, totally opposing views, who loath one another, presided over by a ‘leader’ without a shred of authority?
Do they actually loathe each other?
I believe that these off-site meetings between two groups with disparate interests are much like those I attend in private sector business.
It may be a day of hot air, tantrums and little real progress. But, in the evening everyone meets in the bar and chats, jokes and enjoys some nice food and wine. After all, it's just work to them and whatever Brexit comes to pass, their work will continue. Of course, as you recognise, this is the real problem. None of the people making the decisions really care about the outcome - they're too well insulated in either scenario!
Do they actually loathe each other?
Only when talking about Brexit. They can all get together afterwards and laugh at the poor, needy and unprivileged
Moggys little strop has had some backlash from his fellow MPs
He shouldnt be so worried, May has always been anti-immigrant, so whe will reject any compromise from the EU that requires adherence to 4 freedoms.
This means that itll be a canda type deal requiring a loooooooong transition to keep manufacturing from leaving
C and A? Didn't they go bankrupt?
Do they actually loathe each other?
A draft of Theresa May’s Brexit plan has already been dismissed as unrealistic by senior EU officials, who say the UK has no chance of changing the European Union’s founding principles.
from the Grauniad. It was so obvious that this ws the case. the 4 freedoms are indivisible
Since before A50 was announced th EU made it clear that it was all 4 or none at all.
still like a British tourist on holiday the approach seems to be that if we just talk more loudly and clearly they will magically understand and we will get what we want.
Has anyone else passed the point where this is now starting to get really really worrying on a personal level?
Up to now I've always thought that this was absolute insanity, but its seemed suitably vague and hypothetical, and there was always at least some sense of blind optimism that maybe calmer voices might prevail above the lunatics.
But its suddenly felt like this shit is getting very real. Now I think we're genuinely getting to what Fergie described as squeaky-bum time. And we have a bunch of squabbling incompetents at the helm, who clearly haven't got a ****ing clue what they even want, never mind how to deliver it. There is not a cat-in-hells chance I can see this ending any other way than absolutely catastrophically. And that catastrophe is looming large now.
With every day that passes it looks more and more like the headbangers are going to get their dream - the hardest of hard Brexits
And we have a bunch of squabbling incompetents at the helm, who clearly haven’t got a ****ing clue what they even want, never mind how to deliver it. There is not a cat-in-hells chance I can see this ending any other way than absolutely catastrophically. And that catastrophe is looming large now.
With every day that passes it looks more and more like the headbangers are going to get their dream – the hardest of hard Brexits
Well we now live in a world where Danny Dyer's succinct political discourse is about the most sensible thing said about Brexit in the last 12 months, given that this is now the world we are living in its difficult to be surprised by any of it.
And just as the bus heads for the cliff, BoJo and Mogg are fighting over which one of them gets to grab the wheel and press the accelerator harder.
If it is hard Brexit either through will or incompetence then it will be bad for a lot of people.
overall the country will go on and people will survive just like they did in the 70s and 80s.
I fully expect to die at work in my 70s (retirement will not be an option) assuming there is still employment from a easily preventable illness due to no functioning public health service.
As someone who lives abroad, for some reason I suddenly got very worried last week. I'm now looking into getting a new passport (no dual-citizenship allowed so I'll have to give up my British passport). I suddenly started getting visions of being kicked out and being forced back to a UK that is rapidly going down the toilet.
I do want to move back to the UK but this is not the way I want my glorious homecoming to go.
I'm just wondering how bad it will have to be before the majority of those in Scotland choose another path. I guess iScotland might be attractive to many of the Remainers in rUK too.
Has anyone else passed the point where this is now starting to get really really worrying on a personal level?
Yup.
I live in a village in Kent, not far from the M20. At the very least, I can expect it to become a lorry park.
My employer has cut jobs on the back of the referendum result, virtually everyone I socialise with in London is reporting a similarly gloomy picture of a shrinking job market and costcutting. While this might be seen as schadenfreude by many who don't have to work in London, I've friends in the automotive and aerospace sector who really a tad nervous that the government that they voted for are looking out for their interests.
If the Conservatives follow through on a policy that will make most of us poorer, then at the very least they can expect a 1997 style wipeout once the effects have been felt.
Unfortunately, it looks more and more likely that we're heading for a hard Brexit. I'm personally looking forward to it, but that's only because I like to see things burn.
What I most looking forward to is, once everything goes tits up, is reminding the people who voted for it, that it's all their fault.
'No, it's your fault for sabotaging Brexit, you remoaniac! Traitor!!', is the response you should expect when you say 'I told you so.'
Interesting point scotroutes. Trouble is a large % of the yes vote in the scottish referendum also want out of the EU the independence side being such a broad church
I for one would far rather an independent scotland in the EU than a UK out of it.
I think overall the eff up of brexit will lead to more pressure for independence
What I most looking forward to is, once everything goes tits up, is reminding the people who voted for it, that it’s all their fault.
To which the standad Leaver argument is that it's actually the fault of Remainers for not beliving in it, being so negative, not negotiating well enough, not getting behind it, not accepting that "they won, you lost"...
Can't win.
The oly logical option is to stand up and admit why the referendum was called in the first place, state that it's actually impossible to deliver anything meaningful that makes any sense to anyone and apologise profusely to the EU for wasting their valuable time then spend the next 15 years rebuilding the things they've already burned and dragging the businesses back to the UK.
reminding the people who voted for it, that it’s all their fault
Good luck with that - they'll be blaming Barnier and Tusk, or maybe the Maybot once the Gove/BloJo/RM axis topples her. None of it will be because it was the 'will of the people'.
Once we are out I will write to that **** grayling every day asking why everything isn't fixed yet.
I will annoy that **** into an early grave.
reminding the people who voted for it, that it’s all their fault
I’ve gave up attempting to discuss Brexit with the leavers, all they get out of me now is “you’re a ****ing idiot”
Once we have a glorious no deal the goods that I sell we be subjected to a 30% tax.
Is there a list of how much other everyday stuff will go up?
Do WTO rules supercede any other deals we have?
Is it just eu stuff that will go up or Chinese as well?
I can access my private pension in 2 years time.
If I end up on the dole do I have to dip into that?
More not at all suspicious info on Aaron Banks and the money to fund Brexit ...
Is it actually possible to crash out without any kind of deal?
Wouldn't we need to construct more customs infrastructure pretty much overnight? ... and this seems to be necessary under WTO rules?
The government has made no realistic prepration for this.
Surely the most realistic option is that this boring but enourmously expensive limbo carries on even longer...
Perhaps that's the idea, the Leave voters were, on average, quite old after all.
Yes its quite possible to crash out without a deal and right now its the most likely option. " nothing is agreed till everything is agreed" means no transition period even. Without a solution to NI let alone a proposal on customs etc acceptable to the EU then yes - we crash out with no trade deals with anyone and rely on WTO rules
Don't WTO rules require a hard border in Ireland which won't exist?
Has anyone else passed the point where this is now starting to get really really worrying on a personal level?
Yes - way past. What is worrying is the possibility that MrsJ and even MissJ may have their status as residents in the UK put in doubt. Without going into personal details, MissJ's citizenship rests on a decision made by the Home Office some time ago which is not dissimilar to the Windrush situation. If they should review her case for any reason she may be in bother. Unlikely, maybe, but catastrophic if it should happen.
Yes - WTO rules mean a hard border in NI
Think I'll morph into a fly and pop into chequers on Friday just to witness the "discussion" first hand
Who would enforce the hard border?
Will all our planes be grounded?
Will the door be shut in our face at Calais?
Will the country grind to a halt?
Will the shit hit the fan next march or 2 years later?
Anyone would think the EU negotiators listened to our puffed-up idiots saying 'threaten a no-deal Brexit and watch them quake in their boots', and decided that would work equally well for them...
Zippy both sides of the border have to enforce it
No two year transition
Planes grounded yes, all happens in march unless the Tories get their finger out and start actually negotiating the possible rather than their wishlists of unicorns and magic
This is on display in my local spoons, not that we need to be reminded of the wetherspoons stance.
Has anyone else passed the point where this is now starting to get really really worrying on a personal level?
Yes. The work I do is quite likely to dry up in the long run, although we are seeing work that needs to be done to re-implement systems that are currently handled by the EU. But I do work for a large global company so perhaps an internal transfer is likely.