Forum menu
what a surprise? Now who would volunteer to enter a potential war zone? How many officers short is the UK currently?
I think it's wrong to pillory the Remainers with a few stereotypes, although sometimes it is irresistible.
I voted Remain with reservations. Top of my concern was the way the Greek crisis was managed, and I'm still not comfortable about that. I find the very size and complexity of the EU makes it hard to get a proper handle on it, and a lot of trust is needed that control of it is in the right hands.
I voted Remain with reservations. Top of my concern was the way the Greek crisis was managed, and I’m still not comfortable about that. I find the very size and complexity of the EU makes it hard to get a proper handle on it, and a lot of trust is needed that control of it is in the right hands.
Either UK politicians and "statesmen" are a force for good or they're not. If they are, we have an obligation to stay in and lobby in support of those like Greece.
If they're a bunch of self serving charlatans who'll lie and steal and waste huge amounts of public money, time and effort for a twisted ideology and personal gain, then the UK population need all the help we can get.
ith the clarity of where we are now you’d have to be spectacularly thick to contemplate that leaving without a deal is even remotely sensible!
and yet...
Andrew Adonis saying today that May might choose to pull the vote again!! This really is contempt on top of our entire democracy being corrupted by a few for their own political and financial gain.
If out of all this shit I could buy stuff tax free from the states , go and live in Australia or new Zealand with free health care, or just be better off in one way I could suck up the result.
I'm not being offered one thing that will make my life or this country better off.
So **** you every single **** that voted leave.
Andrew Adonis saying today that May might choose to pull the vote again!! This really is contempt on top of our entire democracy being corrupted by a few for their own political and financial gain.
Indeed.
If anyone still believes May is trying to implement "the will of the people" when in reality it's "the will of the tory party" then they need inserted into a rocket and fired into the sun.
It's not even the will of the tory party if the poll in that guardian article is to be believed. Its just the will of May to 'win' so she can say she's been successfull
What that Guardian article shows is that the "Tory Party rank and file" are so out of touch with reality, that they actually think that leaving with no deal is even an option.
Shocking but not necessarily surprising, given that our local MP (Macclesfield) was banned from campaigning for remain during the referendum by his local party, so he went and campaigned in Chester instead. (Macclesfield voted remain by the way). That shows the sort of people we are dealing with here.
slowoldman
Subscriber
Andrew Adonis saying today that May might choose to pull the vote again!! This really is contempt on top of our entire democracy being corrupted by a few for their own political and financial gain.
wouldnt be surprised at all, Mays decided her only option is to take it right to the wire- so its no deal or her deal
The mind absolutely boggles. Complete disregard for the proper functioning of parliment. It's made worse by the fact I don't believe she actually thinks either her deal or no deal would be the best for the country (she campaigned for remain after all)
Yeah but it is want the people want - well some of them, probably.
she campaigned for remain after all
She campaigned for the side she thought was going to win, then she flipped to the winning side and went all out for that. It is basic tory mentality, no understanding of nuance, just winners and losers and **** the losers no matter how close, fair or honest the game is.
As with most things, The Day Today predicted the shipping scandal.
Peter O'Hanra-Hanrahan reports
Says in the paper that maybot 2.0 is pressing control alt delete again and pausing the vote
I'm voting for an absolute revolution in this country if she does fighting burning and turning the god damn country into a warzone....if she wants a dictatorship she can have the background setting for it
the DUP want the border to stay exactly as it is whilst remaining in the UK - a massive fly in the pie for TM. I think that bribing isn't the answer, the magic money tree paid out to get them to support the tory govt but looks like it won't cut it now.
So Jeremy? How about that vote of no confidence? No? Not yet?
The Tory party rank and file are a bunch of doddering pensioners who neither know nor care about reality. My FIL thinks it's all a jolly jape even with his son facing the loss of his job and being split from his wife and child.
So Jeremy? How about that vote of no confidence? No? Not yet?
Going to be a bit quiet as parliament is not in session. Doing it based on rumour of what might happen is not the best way. She needs to either present it and it voted down OR she pulls it. Until one of those things happens it's not the right time. As above the first thing that needs to happen is the DUP vote against her.
So Jeremy? How about that vote of no confidence? No? Not yet?
FFS. Ignoring the fact that parliament isn't even sitting yet, can you explain what difference this will make? Other than being a convenient excuse for anti-Corbyn obsessives to bleat about him that is.
The Tory party rank and file are a bunch of doddering pensioners who neither know nor care about reality.
The average age of Tory members is 57, the average age of Labour members is 54.
If she does pull / postpone the vote again, then surely a vote of confidence is the 'right' thing to do, whether it would suceed or make any difference I'm not sure but it would suggest a govt that knows it can't function. Will be interesting to see what happens when parliment returns next week.
Going to be a bit quiet as parliament is not in session.
FFS. Ignoring the fact that parliament isn’t even sitting yet
Yes I'm aware of that, just a heads up for next week.
Trust me, this is not what the DUP want. They fear/hate the ROI and want a hard border (they know the problems it'll cause the ROI). They can't openly say it but it's been their goal since day one. The DUP create problems, not solutions and are trying to force TM to do their dirty work.
the DUP want the border to stay exactly as it is whilst remaining in the UK – a massive fly in the pie for TM.
love the irony of Ramsgate harbour being dredged for no deal brexit possibility when the last time it was dredged it was partially paid for by the EU 🙂
The average age of Tory members is 57, the average age of Labour members is 54.
You really shouldn't post guesses as facts.
You really shouldn’t post guesses as facts.
I dont, it is based on survey data by Queen Mary's University London, although I think the Labour figure might have been 53 in the original survey, it was misquoted by one of the academics.
dont, it is based on survey data by Queen Mary’s University London, although I think the Labour figure might have been 53 in the original survey, it was misquoted by one of the academics.
I know where you got it from, and a link to your source would've been nice. You posted as fact numbers from a single survey that the researchers admit has considerable uncertainty.
It is the best estimate we have, pretty much every figure posted on a political or economics thread is based on surveys that is how pretty much all government statistics are generated. I was reminded of it today reading twitter and unfortunately I have not had a great deal of success in linking to tweets so don't waste my time any more.
And there, in a nutshell, is the argument for Brexit.
It is the best estimate we have
It may well be, but it's not a good one, so why post it as fact?
ah, I wasn't the only one to notice mefty's sleight of hand turning another opinion into fact then?
To be fair to mefty, the average may be pulled down a bit by the likes of me joining in order to get a meaningful vote.
Other than being a convenient excuse for anti-Corbyn obsessives to bleat about him that is.
So what would binners do with all that spare time?
Stupid questions time;
How much does it cost to join the 2 main parties?
If I were to do so, would that give me an opportunity to vote on the issues?
If I were to do so, would that give me an opportunity to vote on the issues?
You have to be an MP to do that.
If I were to join labour would I be able to push for a pro eu agenda?
Like most of the current members?
Clearly doesn't work that way.
I meant within the party, like zippykona is asking.
No, being a member does not allow you to vote on issues or push any agenda. You are basically supporting the party (monetarily) so it can exist and do the things it needs to do as a party.
If you want more of a say then you need to become a Labour MP (in theory)
No, being a member does not allow you to vote on issues or push any agenda. You are basically supporting the party (monetarily) so it can exist and do the things it needs to do as a party.
As a member you can participate in policy making and vote in internal elections.
Any one fancy a pint at weatherspoons
Brexiteer Wetherspoon boss Tim Martin came to speak to punters in Manchester - but was he talking 'absolute b******s'? - Manchester Evening News
That photo of Madeleina sticking her tongue out is just glorious.
No the members get to vote on various issues, though it varies by party. Eg the tory members have a vote in the leadership - though that only kicks in once the MPs have reduced the candidate list to 2 (and last time at that point the 2nd candidate pulled out leaving no need for a vote). But living in a safe parliamentary seat I don't have any chance of a meaningful vote in the parliamentary elections. Membership was 25 quid. Yes I'm supporting them with some money. I actually think they would be a better party if they had a broader base of support rather than relying on a handful of senile pensioners and a smaller number of oligarchs with deep pockets.
There is something seriously wrong when people feel then need to protest about a shop offering a vegan option.
No the members get to vote on various issues, though it varies by party. Eg the tory members have a vote in the leadership
How is that voting on issues, forcing a pro EU agenda etc,. I have never seen where I can vote directly on issues, policy, direction of party. It can be done indirectly (very) by voting on committee members but that is all I have ever seen.
I'm not claiming it's perfect but it's better than nothing. I've been asked my opinion several times in email polls too. As a mere punter I get one meaningless GE vote every 5 years and the local Tory wins anyway.
As good an explanation for May pushing ahead with her deal as I've found anywhere
Mrs May conflates her survival with the national interest. In all cases this conflation is dangerously self-serving and as far away from “strong and stable” as it is possible to be.
A good article in today’s observer by Andrew Rawnsley (as always) for those hopelessly naive members of his fanclub who are still in denial about Corbyn not being a raving Brexiteer, or still under the misguided delusion that he cares about representing anyone’s opinion other than his own
To stop Brexit, labour supporters will have to revolt against their leader
Democracy at work
.
Brexit: Theresa May hints she will force MPs to vote multiple times on her deal if she loses
If at first you don't win have another vote
Irony so big I will be able to build a housing estate on the board.
There is something seriously wrong when people feel then need to protest about a shop offering a vegan option.
It was a joint 'Free Tommy Robinson/Ban Vegan Greggs' protest if that makes it any better.
It was a joint ‘Free Tommy Robinson/Ban Vegan Greggs’ protest if that makes it any better.
They were told that the vegan meat was prepared using halal methods.
They were told that the vegan meat was prepared using halal methods.
The fact I can't tell if you're joking or not makes me sad.
Also, newsthump really needs to change the way it's website looks. There are times I genuinely forget whether I'm looking at the BBC or not.
The fact I can’t tell if you’re joking or not makes me sad.
Yes I was joking. The absurdity of real life though really does blur the lines.
I wish we still had Spitting Image
The fact I can’t tell if you’re joking or not makes me sad.
Did you hear the one about the ferry company with no ferries and a port that can't take a ferry anyway....
#SatireIsTakingABreak
So having caught the highlights of the Maybot teaser trailer for her new improved deal, nothing has changed and if she can wait as long as possibly before admitting that there is less time to look bad.
She’s said that the vote is definitely going ahead, so going off everything else she’s ever done (or not done) we can pretty much guarantee that it certainly won’t be.
She’ll let MP’s spend another week posturing and pompously pontificating in Parliament then she’ll pull it at the eleventh hour again
we can pretty much guarantee that it certainly won’t be.
Don't discount a cunning double bluff, somebody will along shortly to tell us how it's all part of her master plan.
There's very little cunning involved
The ferry farce being a prime example
And theres more where that came from...
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1081990825922449409?s=19
The government are modelling what the no deal traffic jams of the 5000? trucks a day delayed at Dover would look like.
Only they could only get hold of half the 150 lorries they were supposed to use...
https://twitter.com/EastKentTAB/status/1082189252891418624?s=19
Cunning....nearly right
Only they could only get hold of half the 150 lorries they were supposed to use…
Well them lads could just drive around in circles, in reality this should just be a confirmation of the issues that were identified in their computer models of this, the traffic simulations that were run against various traffic levels measured over the last 6 months for the area so we can predict with some confidence what the best and worst case situations would be and what the indicators of problems will be.
But yeah getting some trucks to drive around is visible....
Only they could only get hold of half the 150 lorries they were supposed to use…
Surely if they get hold of 52% that's enough to base any big decision on?
The ferry farce is stunning. Pretty much everyone vaguely interested in ships knew that Ramsgate can't take big ships, but their due diligence appears to have been to look at "The AA Touring Atlas of Europe 1968". The chosen route is also bonkers as Ostend is a pig to navigate into. The shortest crossing time will be about 4 hours, assuming the get a crew who don't need to take a pilot at either end. Don't fancy using the PAX linkspan in Ramsgate either, well, not without climbing gear:
[img] 
[/img]
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1082146978308476928.html
Lovely thread here by a reporter for The Independent on the traffic jam farce.
Whatever happens it's going to be a huge mess, isn't it?
The gammon hoards seem to be more entrenched than ever with no amount of facts able to counter the Dunkirk spirit and they're getting louder. They really will happily drive us off a cliff, then blame everyone else.
I'm a lefty by nature but am really starting to worry about what Corbyn is up to. To make it worse (as predicted by some but not necessarily believed by me at the time) many of his supporters are starting to sound as bonkers as the gammons.
It seems the middle ground really is swelling with no one to represent them. I'm not a Blair fan these days and would never trust the lib dems but am in danger of getting lumped in with the centrists, as are many more who would not identify themselves as such.
Worst of all is that we'll be the ones clearing it all up!
It seems the middle ground really is swelling with no one to represent them.
I think more and more are reaching the real conclusion that this is not a party political issue and the current parties cannot solve it. Neither Corbyn or may hold a majority of one opinion here. They do have enough loyalists to block things but not deliver them.
Until the whips are removed or a significant revolt occurs there will be no way forward.
15th is the test of that, if the vote is pulled a vote of no confidence must be called. But crucially there must be a plan beyond can we have a go. We need to get to March knowing the outcome.
thats a brilliant link crazy legs
Should democracy be thrown under the ****ing bus if it means the country doesn't sink?
There is a democratic way out of all of this, we have a parliament, we have people who can make all the decisions.
'Lord' Peter Lilly, who's a raving Brexiteer is on Five Live at the moment. They really are living in some insane fantasy world. All borders at Dover etc will be fine because.... well they just will. The Northern Ireland border isn't an issue because "we'll just find a solution". Supply chains and jobs will all be fine because, again... they just will, ok?! A no deal Brexit will all be just ticketty boo because.... it just will
Thats their answers! Seriously
Its terrifying that these flag-waving lunatics are presently wagging the government dog
So all this simulating and traffic research and ferries....has a contingency been made for Europeans being awkward at t other end like.
Thats their answers! Seriously
Its terrifying that these flag-waving lunatics are presently wagging the government dog
Id like to think the interviewer tore them to pieces over this?
if not the press have failed utterly
So all this simulating and traffic research and ferries….has a contingency been made for Europeans being awkward at t other end like.
Well form what I can see none of the research has been done, unless somebody in here grabbed the tender nice and quick - especially as we have not been doing any no deal planning until now. It's a pointless and pathetic attempt to make people think things are being looked after - like THM's mythical grown ups
I think the Europeans' contingency plans are likely to be along the lines of '**** this bollocks, let's shop somewhere else'
I can just see it taking 20 hours to turn around all these imaginary ships