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But but but Liam Fox told us that they'd start working on the a trade deal early ?!
http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-liam-fox-eu-australia-trade-deals-2016-10
How will he justify all the trips he's booked to Sydney over the winter, now?
So what countries have slapped down Fox's offers of trade negotiations early
USA
Canada
Norway
Australia
27 EU countries(I think maybe Hungary were up for it)
What others have I missed ?
Any one might think he was completely out of his depth and all his ideas were based on archaic notions of trade from the Victorian era reimagined as a Brexit fantasy
As time goes by, The Thick Of It looks less like a comedy and more like a documentary 🙁
Best part of that article, the wishes of the Australian to include access to the UK for Its workers, which means more immigration in the UK.
Think a lot of people have failed to realise that the rest of the world may request freedom of movement as part of a trade deal - you really can't make this s**t up!
Doh.....
Think a lot of people have failed to realise that the rest of the world may request freedom of movement as part of a trade deal - you really can't make this s**t up!
I've been banging on about it… especially as regards India… they (rightly) want to be able to use some of their key people in their European wings without constantly begging governments for restrictive visas. People are key in trade deals… how can companies work across borders without their staff? Businesses ARE people… more and more.
Liam "they need us more than we need them" Fox now saying we need to get a deal with the EU without getting governments of EU states involved, as some might block a deal.
Clueless.
What I want to know is why Belgium is able to ask its parliament whether they shouldve signed CETA
and why our great beacon of democracy wasnt...
Fox apologised for not allowing a parliamentary debate before agreeing the EU treaty with Canada, but said the deal was worth a potential £1.3bn a year to Britain.“I’m sorry the timescales meant it wasn’t possible to have a debate … For the UK to have been seen as in any way blocking [the deal] would have left us in a very difficult position regarding [EU] member states, and of course Canada.”
So negative you lot.... Its going to be fine. Jambalaya told me. 🙂
[i]Liam "they need us more than we need them" Fox now saying we need to get a deal with the EU without getting governments of EU states involved, as some might block a deal.[/i]
Would that not include the UK too 🙂
Liam Fox really is an utter *-wit, isn't he?
I think it's absolutely terrifying that someone as obviously *ing clueless as that has been tasked with the most important negotiations in our recent history
It's a good job the other two are intellectual heavyweights.
Oh... wait.... hang on a minute....
I'm thinking of the Malcolm Tucker quote....
"Oh... Laurel and ****ing Hardy? Nice of you to join us. Did you get the piano up the stairs ok?"
[quote=fourbanger ]So negative you lot.... Its going to be fine. Jambalaya told me.
#jambafact
Maybe Mark Carney could do the negotiations...
I love Liam Fox saying that playing hardball is putting politics (ideology) above prosperity.
"O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us! "
R Burns
Kimbers my friends in Sweden said "It's like Britain just failed an exam"
"It's like Britain just failed an exam"
😀
I am in the process of re-reading the Restaurant at the End of the Universe at the moment and the results of the referendum and the consequences almost seem on a par with and as absurd as something from a Douglas Adams plot. Possibly the Brexit camp have something like Frogstar World B in mind as a plan for a way forward - shoes anyone.
The economic conditions of Frogstar B could be said to be remarkably similar to that of the planet Brontitall, but this only goes to show just how common its tragic fate is in the Galaxy.Frogstar World B was once a happy, prosperous planet, which was plunged into poverty and despair by a tragic economic phenomenon known as the Shoe Event Horizon, the details of which are as follows:
Even though this planet was, indeed, happy and prosperous, it could be said to have had just a little too many shoe shops. Its poor, fashion-crazed and economically ignorant citizens bought these shoes, gradually coming to buy more, and more, and more, until the shoe companies saw and seized their opportunity, and began to build more shoe shops.
The increase of these shoe shops encouraged people to buy more shoes, which made the shoe companies richer, which manufactured more shoes, and at a lower quality, which made people buy more shoes, etc..
Eventually, it became economically untenable to sell anything other than shoes. Frogstar B spiralled into a state of inexorable economic collapse. Most of the planet died out, and the more genetically unstable of the population evolved into bird-creatures.
This phenomenon is claimed by the Dalmon-Saxlil Shoe Corporation to have been caused by a device they call a "Shoe Shop Intensifier Ray", but this is a lie. All that they needed to do was wait a bit.
[url= http://metro.co.uk/2016/10/26/uk-will-have-84000000000-black-hole-fuelled-by-brexit-6215662/ ]reported yesterday[/url] looking on the bright side though borrowing is pretty cheap at the moment.
Good news.
Deutsche Bank have turned around from that €6bn loss and are (just) back in profit.
#JambaSaysBeHappy
For the quarter and only a small one...
What does May actually believe in??
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/26/theresa-may-under-fire-following-leaked-brexit-recording ]Link[/url]
Private talks at Goldman Sachs a month before the Ref & she says this;
"In the hour-long session at Goldman, May said: “I think the economic arguments are clear. I think being part of a 500 million [population] trading bloc is significant for us. I think, as I was saying to you a little earlier, that one of the issues is that a lot of people will invest here in the UK because it is the UK in Europe.
“If we were not in Europe, I think there would be firms and companies who would be looking to say, do they need to develop a mainland Europe presence rather than a UK presence? So I think there are definite benefits for us in economic terms.”
Yay!
Now we get 100 pages of each side explaining why 0.5% growth proves that they are right...
Can't wait.
[quote=fin25 ]Yay!
Now we get 100 pages of each side explaining why 0.5% growth proves that they are right...
Can't wait.
Jamba right now...
[img] 
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What does May actually believe in??
With Goves reappearance back on the scene, trying to slime his way back into the cabinet, I think we can conclude that everyone involved in this tragicomic debacle believe in nothing more than their own personal advancement.
They say you get the politicians you deserve. How the **** did we end up with this bunch of self-serving shysters?
They say you get the politicians you deserve. How the **** did we end up with this bunch of self-serving shysters?
A hereditary system would solve that.
They say you get the politicians you deserve. How the **** did we end up with this bunch of self-serving shysters?
I think you've answered your own question.
Damn, £ is up - must get my €s back to the UK!
The Economic data isn't news. The fact Osbourne / IMF tried to scare people with tales of Economic Armageddon which every day are being proven to be sh.te isn't news.
Yup Economy still growing, no recession.
As for earlier comment about freedom of movement being required for international trde deals that's nonsense. The EU is the only trade block with freedom of movement. Not replicated anywhere else as its a terrible idea amongst such economically disparate nations. A trade deal with Australia including easier access to visas both ways - yup where do I sign ?
Huh.. BBC business article headline
"Economy grows by 0.5%"
Main BBC headline
"Growth slows to 0.5%"
The fact Osbourne / IMF tried to scare people with tales of Economic Armageddon which every day are being proven to be sh.te
It hasn't happened yet, so you can't call it shite. Just wait and see.
The fact Osbourne / IMF tried to scare people with tales of Economic Armageddon which every day are being proven to be sh.te isn't news.
It still underperformed though didn't it...
0.5% as opposed to 0.7% when worst case was 0.3% - that's hardly a resounding endorsement now is it?
"The economy expanded by 0.5% in the July-to-September period, according to the Office for National Statistics.
That was slower than the 0.7% rate in the previous quarter, but stronger than analysts' estimates of about 0.3%."
Before you get carried away. What's the margin of error? 1%?
No recession, but every commentator sounding nervous, inflation coming, personal debt at an all time high I believe, manufacturing down, construction down, agriculture down (was anything other than services, which might repeat might be most hit by non-EU trade deals, up?) and growth already slowing.
Still der fuhrer says be happy, so I shall be happy.
PS did anyone else look at BoardingBob's picture and think "tubeless moment"?
looks like Craney has earnt his crust and bailed out the BSers, with his QE- as it was services that expanded
every other sector shrank
It still underperformed though didn't it...
Not necessarily - we won't really know for sure what the economy did in the last quarter for 2-3 years.
If we cast our minds back a few years National Statistics landed up revising their previous reports of a double dip recession to there being only one dip. The data aren't all available yet and therefore any current conclusions may / may not be accurate.
[url= http://news.sky.com/story/double-dip-recession-never-actually-happened-10441830 ]Sky News - double dip recession never happened[/url]
J5m - revisions can got two ways
The EU is the only trade block with freedom of movement
But the EU isn't just a trade block.
Good - they need jobs round there
The EU is the only trade block with freedom of movement
The UK?
[quote=mrlebowski ]What does May actually believe in??
Being PM. I'm not sure why anybody is at all confused about that.
Aracer - not sure she does. She has that rabbit caught in the headlights look a little too often
re Nissan : following support and reassurances from uk government .
how much is that going to cost ?
[quote=cchris2lou ]how much is that going to cost ?
Reportedly how ever much brexit might cost them in terms of tariffs.
[quote=jambalaya ]......... The EU is the only trade block with freedom of movement. Not replicated anywhere else as its a terrible idea amongst such economically disparate nations.............
It could be argued the the union of American States that formed the USA led to the amalgamation of a block of disparate nations-states (French, Spanish, German, English etc) to form a trading block with freedom of movement. However, they are now tied together with a common language and currency. Having had such a short pre-union history that integration was a relatively painless affair..
The EU COULD work in much the same way if it wasn't for the tribalism and archaic ideas of sovereignty that our shared history of conflict and mistrust has created over the past few millennium. The development of mankind as a species should (must) allow us to overcome such issues in the long term for the common good of our planet. This is why so many intelligent and forward thinking people have an issue with the insular, "gated community" mentally of your average Brexit supporter.
So the taxpayer is on the hook for any costs incurred by Nissan.
Plus every other manufacturer is now knocking on Phils door saying "you know that deal Nissan just got? Well... we'll have a bit of that as well please? Or we're relocating to Romania"
Could get like the bank bailouts all over again, this....
With all these blank cheques being signed at number 11
So has May confirmed we will be staying in the single market, then?
its not her decision to make unilaterally....how many times? 😯
Welsh the USA is a perfect example. It's now one country and it had a civil war to get there. A United States of Europe is exactly the EU project (agreed Nipper the EU is much more than a trade block, read the 1975 Referendum pamphlet which said it would ONLY be a trade block)
The EU is a superstate project which is why I voted Leave at the first opportunity available to me and before it's too late
So the taxpayer is on the hook for any costs incurred by Nissan
At the moment there are savings. We'll see where the € goes in the future.
Kimbers - no we won't stay in "THE single market" as there are far too many strings attached. We will have our own deal IMO - WTO with add ons I suspect
a trading block with freedom of movement
Nordic Council.
Also arguably Germany, Spain, and Switzerland.
teamhurtmore - Member
its not her decision to make unilaterally....how many times?
that was my point, she cant - so what has she offered?
if a hard brexit (no single market & customs union + import duties,) makes a car 10,20,50?% more expensive to produce here, how much does the taxpayer have to subsidise per car?
A United States of Europe is exactly the EU project
I think that's SOME people's desire, but not others.
Nissan also knows that workers right in the uk are crap , so if it gets too bad in the uk , a lot easier to shut down a factory than in the eu .
not really a big risk for Nissan . Deals are going to take years to sort out .
[quote=jambalaya ]At the moment there are savings.
[b]WE HAVEN'T LEFT YET[/b]
We will have our own deal IMO - WTO with add ons I suspect
"la, la, la, la"
Nissan have confirmed the new Qashqai will be built in Sunderland.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37787890
Great news for the North East.
It is, I guess (mikefacts) that the decision means brexit will take longer than the production...
Breaking - Sunderland to be allowed to stay in EU after the rest of the UK leaves.
Great news from Nissan but as been said what promises have the Government made???
0.5% growth is nothing to get excited about, hides the fact that manufacturing is down.
The EU is a superstate project which is why I voted Leave at the first opportunity available to me and before it's too late
Wasted vote then. We were not part of that bit - something that was clarified this year. We were focused on the good bits which we are now throwing away in an appalling example of sovereign self harm.
At least you are admitting that you decision was based on a flawed premise. Progress.... 😉
BBC pointing out that treasury growth forecasts of possible recession were made on the assumption that A50 would be triggered and no BoE stimulus assumption.
Or in other words - no chicken counting yet.
Great news for the North East.
and for the french taxpayer as we will now be subsidising their car industry as Renault/Nissan is part state owned
Breaking - Sunderland to be allowed to stay in EU after the rest of the UK leaves.
Breaking - Sunderland UK Exit Welcomed by May, asks for Hartlepool to be included.
We will end up with pretty much what we have now but with more cost and less influence - barking bloody mad.
if a hard brexit (no single market & customs union + import duties,) makes a car 10,20,50?% more expensive to produce here, how much does the taxpayer have to subsidise per car?
On balance very little.
Since those same tariffs would apply to imported cars, the net position would be that VAG / BMW / PeugeotCitroen / Renault group cars would immediately become significantly more expensive - likely resulting in UK consumers spending their money on UK produced cars instead.
So although exports from the UK would go down Nissan would likely gain significant market share in the UK with the result they would be capacity constrained at the Sunderland Plant.
Given much of the R&D for the Qasqhai is also done here they would benefit from a double "win" in the form of the Patent Box provisions that encourage domestic manufacturing of goods researched / developed here - something the EU specifically want to stop the UK offering.
Here's a thought. Would all the Brexiters fit in say Cornwall? There's only 17m of them (and falling). We could relocate them, build a big wall and put a sign up welcoming them to the 1700s. Brochures on whipping and capital punishment for them to "read".
Meanwhile the rest of us could get on with the 21st century.
I may not be entirely serious.
likely resulting in UK consumers spending their money on UK produced cars instead.
But they would also be more expensive due to overseas parts, no?
We will end up with pretty much what we have now but with more cost and less influence - barking bloody mad.
yes but we'll have Taken Back Control! Do you not get it?!
On balance very little.
Any stats to back that up? With 40% of a car made here, actually imported from elsewhere, customs, tarrifs applied several times on some parts
But they would also be more expensive due to overseas parts, no?
Why would they be anymore expensive than the Qashqai's produced now?
All this decision does it encourage Nissan's supply chain partners to produce more of the OE parts in the UK.
Per the Delphi example earlier in the thread there's no good reason for some of the current supply chain movements other than tax optimisation / avoidance and choices on where to commit Capex.
Capability can be built anywhere almost with the right capital investment and training of workforce. This is something that's not been right in the UK for a long time so it's about time we encouraged manufacturers to do more of their business here.
Capability can be built anywhere almost with the right capital investment and training of workforce. This is something that's not been right in the UK for a long time so it's about time we encouraged manufacturers to do more of their business here.
Not cheap, not quick. Who's paying and you do realise we will be importing people to make it happen?
Over a 10-20 year timeframe it might work, but there's a reason we employ so many foreign engineers for example (clue - its intellectually difficult and not that well paid compared to finance, consulting and management)
Yeah, let's build a wall and do everything here!
You seem to have failed to read all the earlier discussion - or just ignoring the inconvenient bits. The reason we don't do everything here is economy of scale, the advantages of being in a much larger free trade zone. Moving all the required supply chain here just wouldn't make economic sense - it's probably still cheaper to pay the tariffs.
Of course the other point you're missing is that most of the Nissan production is exported - the Uk market isn't going to pick most of that up, whatever the tariffs are on imported cars.
Capability can be built anywhere almost with the right capital investment and training of workforce
In two years?
igm - I agree but that still doesn't mean we should have an industrial strategy to make this happen.
Singapore have done this very successfully by balancing the flow of skilled migrants with an increase in training in key skills in their universities / technical colleges. The net result is that when Rolls Royce and many of the world leaders in Chemical industries expanded, they went to Singapore.
Brochures on whipping and capital punishment for them to "read".
They won't read them as they "fed up with experts!"
Of course the other point you're missing is that most of the Nissan production is exported - the Uk market isn't going to pick most of that up, whatever the tariffs are on imported cars.
And with respect, you're missing the point that when a comparable VW / Renault / BMW car costs 30% more than a UK produced car very few people will choose to spend 30% more. So Nissan's market share will almost certainly increase. It's just a rational consumer response to a change in retail price - the very same one that is already causing a headache for VW UK.
There are some other benefits as well though - if we take Nissan as the example:
- many of the cars currently exported by ocean routes are transported by ships that produce more Co2 and sulphur on the export leg than the the actual cars will in the whole service life. So more cars manufactured and used in the same country not only has a significant environmental benefit but also saves Nissan somewhere in the region of £1500 per vehicle in transport costs.
- selling more cars here means the overhead recoveries on manufacturing remain constant but with distribution costs avoided (like transport) going up. These may well completely offset any drop in profit caused by currency movements or tariffs on imported components
And with respect, you're missing the point that when a comparable VW / Renault / BMW car costs 30% more than a UK produced car very few people will choose to spend 30% more.
30% seems like a lot.
But with real prices of all cars going up (due to weaker £ and imported content of cars) and the economy struggling more due to brexit, that may be a larger share of a smaller market.