if the poor little dears can’t think their way round this one
Pretty arrogant of you to be criticising the people who invent these things in the first place.
Back in the day, when batteries were removable, you needed extra space for the clips, the extra plastic bits and packaging and tolerances to make it work. Phones were smaller back then and had less stuff in. And, tbh, they were weaker - mine always broke, largely because they were being knocked about and squeezed and flexed in pockets and so on. Gluing it all together takes up less space and makes it stronger I think.
And let's face it, batteries are replaceable, you just need to take it to a shop, they do it in an hour or two. Unless it's Google - you have to send it back to them, FFS.
Whats the benefit for a mobile phone though, apart from not having to pay someone to change your battery?
Because more and more phones are out together with more glue and fragile tabs that replacing the battery it becoming harder and harder doesn't matter if you pay someone of not it should be easy to allow people to keep a perfectly phone going.
Can't believe there is even any arguments about this to be honest. All of the counter arguments seem to be people just believing manufacturers bullshit or exaggeration at best
Back in the day, when batteries were removable, you needed extra space for the clips, the extra plastic bits and packaging and tolerances to make it work. Phones were smaller back then and had less stuff in. And, tbh, they were weaker – mine always broke, largely because they were being knocked about and squeezed and flexed in pockets and so on. Gluing it all together takes up less space and makes it stronger I think.
I’ve still got a Nokia 3210 in pretty good condition somewhere. All the smartphones I’ve had I’ve broken. I’m typing this on an iPhone with a cracked screen. My next phone will be a Fairphone so when I inevitably **** it up I can simply order what I need and replace it myself in minutes. Why would anyone not want that from all manufacturers? I’ll also be purchasing a pair of their headphones when money allows for the same reason. Their transparency with supply chain is also to be commended. The big three of Apple, Google and Samsung should be taking notes.
Strikes me as odd on here of all places that right to repair and ethical component sourcing isn’t being embraced.
I’m sure the batteries of the future will just slide in, and lock, magnetically.
As for the future of smar****ches, the next untapped market is to replace kids smartphones with watches.
All they need from a device is the ability to stay in touch with their parents and peers, the ability to order a McDonald’s, and some kind of camera.
Save them dribbling over social media when they could be reaching their activity goals.
Yes, for some adults, the screen of an Iwatch is a bit small, but for the rest of us, the convenience of using it to open your hotel room, collect prescriptions, present concert/ movie tickets, boarding passes, ski-lift passes, etc, is too tempting.
Youre always going to have your phone handy, too. At least out of habit.
Had an LG g4 with leather rear cover and removable batteries. Original one wasn't much use after 12 months so bought a 3rd party replacement battey which was rubbish... Bought an LG original battery which was also rubbish. I still have an LG g4 in the drawer and 3 batteries. Ended up buying a new phone instead which doesn't have a replacement battery but going the 40-80% battery care has so far negated any need for a new battery after 4 years use.
EV batteries are generally already replaceable. It an easy job due to the size & weight of them and that they’re generally engineered in to the floor pan / underside, but they can generally be unbolted and dropped out of the bottom, and then disassembled such that individual modules are replaced. Plenty of YouTube videos out there showing specialists doing this for various cars.
It’s not dissimilar to removing and engine from a car - needs the right tools, skills and workshop etc. plus the facilities and knowledge to be able to do useful work on the battery / engine once it’s out of course.
This should have been introduced on EV cars very early doors and could save a lot of the headaches that are being faced now.
I always thought that "hot swapping" an EV battery was the best idea rather than charging it. Pull into a "garage" battery out, new battery in. Off you go.
Along similar line to the gas bottles for the caravan.
This is a very simplistic idea though.
I always thought that “hot swapping” an EV battery was the best idea rather than charging it.
Not feasible - the battery is huge, weighs 3-500kg and forms a big structural element in the car. It'd require specialist gear at every site. You could have small ones that someone could pop in and out of the car, but they'd be that small you could recharge them in 15 mins anyway, or put that much charge into a larger battery in the same time (batteries don't need to be brimmed every time you stop). The benefit of recharging built-in batteries is that most places already have electricity, and whilst the chargers aren't cheap they cost less than a ramp and handling equipment and a paid employee to swap them for you.
"Hi, new battery please"
"Sorry we're all out. There might be some on the van tomorrow or you can wait for someone to bring one in and once we've recharged it you can have it."
This happens with London hire bikes - you walk to your location and they're all gone so you have to keep walking. And also the reverse, you get to a location to drop your bike off and the place is full. They have teams of people in vans that shuffle them around.
molgrips
Not feasible – the battery is huge, weighs 3-500kg and forms a big structural element in the car. It’d require specialist gear at every site. You could have small ones that someone could pop in and out of the car, but they’d be that small you could recharge them in 15 mins anyway, or put that much charge into a larger battery in the same time (batteries don’t need to be brimmed every time you stop). The benefit of recharging built-in batteries is that most places already have electricity, and whilst the chargers aren’t cheap they cost less than a ramp and handling equipment and a paid employee to swap them for you.
Nio already have this running in China, they're targetting 2300 stations by year end. Interesting to see if it works out.
Strikes me as odd on here of all places that right to repair and ethical component sourcing isn’t being embraced.
I embrace it. I've replaced half a dozen phone batteries, I just paid someone to do it. Wasn't overly expensive. £60 every three years doesn't seem like a lot when you're paying at least £5-700 over that period just to use the thing.
I'm not saying it's a bad idea (it's a great idea) I'm just explaining why I think manufacturers started doing non-user replaceable batteries in the first place. Because we as customers wanted lovely sleek devices.
Nio already have this running in China, they’re targetting 2300 stations by year end.
Yeah I've heard of it, but it seems rather niche. That number of stations must only be in urban areas. And it's specific to that one car so I can't see it taking off.
Video here:
Seems like a heck of a lot of work just to save a bit of time on a long trip. And I'm not sure it helps that much. The point about charging stations is that they are easy to install and are (or will be) ubiquitous. If you get to one and it's not working or busy you can go to the next one (because you didn't run down to 1% did you?). These swap stations will be few and far between, because they are expensive. so you could be more likely to get completely stranded. If these do get rolled out, whilst that is happening every other manufacturer and government will be splattering chargers on every street corner (nearly).
The only benefit I can see for people without on-street parking. If (as in China) you have large areas of high density apartments, this could be a good car for you because one station could serve loads of people without a long wait.
What's all this stuff about not being able to run banking apps on older phones?
I have an "old" Galaxy which I use for music and podcasts.
No sim, just wifi.
Tried my Barclays app and it works absolutely fine.
molgrips
Yeah I’ve heard of it, but it seems rather niche. That number of stations must only be in urban areas. And it’s specific to that one car so I can’t see it taking off.
Apparently not just urban, and it works on all of Nios cars AFAIK
Nio will build 400 battery-swapping stations along highways and 600 in urban areas with a focus on the country’s third- and fourth-tier cities and counties, Li said in a post on Nio’s social media platform on Tuesday.
Seems like a heck of a lot of work just to save a bit of time on a long trip. And I’m not sure it helps that much. The point about charging stations is that they are easy to install and are (or will be) ubiquitous.
I'm not sure what China's power grid is like but I suppose a lot of areas would lack the infrastructure needed for multiple fast chargers? You can be charging these things up to 80% 24x7 at a slow rate so they're always ready to go.
Nio will build 400 battery-swapping stations along highways and 600 in urban areas
Meanwhile we build 8,660 charging stations last year in the UK alone, and they work with any car (nearly).
I’m not sure what China’s power grid is like but I suppose a lot of areas would lack the infrastructure needed for multiple fast chargers? You can be charging these things up to 80% 24×7 at a slow rate so they’re always ready to go.
Fair point - IF there are enough batteries to go round if a load of people turn up at once. It might be a better solution to just have large batteries on-site at the station and charge them slowly (with on-site solar even) to provide the rapid charging. I know this has also been mooted possibly by Tesla I can't remember.
The other issue is that each car purchase needs to fund several batteries to supply the network of spares, and as we know the battery is the most expensive part of the car.
molgrips
Meanwhile we build 8,660 charging stations last year in the UK alone, and they work with any car (nearly).
Sure, but how many are are 300+KW? Because that's what you need to be equivalent.
Anyway we're getting off topic, the point is, swapping batteries is potentially feasible. Nio could open their spec up to make it universal if they wished.
Sure, but how many are are 300+KW? Because that’s what you need to be equivalent.
But you don't really need to be equivalent. Does it really matter if your trip to Scotland takes 45 mins longer? Not really. It will seem annoying at first but you'd soon get used to it.
the point is, swapping batteries is potentially feasible
Technical feasible yes, economically viable not so sure. But yeah we appear to be on the wrong thread 🙂
molgrips
But you don’t really need to be equivalent. Does it really matter if your trip to Scotland takes 45 mins longer? Not really. It will seem annoying at first but you’d soon get used to it.
Well yeah to me it does 🤷♂️ Besides it's not necessarily 45 minutes, many of the chargers in your 8660 figure are only 7KW so it could be several hours.
Anyway I agree, wrong thread, let's move on! 🙂 Tesla decided it wasn't worth doing battery swaps so that's probably a good indicator of where the market is headed.
Well yeah to me it does
Meh. Small price to pay IMO.
What’s all this stuff about not being able to run banking apps on older phones?
We actually have proper banking security outside of the UK...
Some related good news, Apple look to be turning fast as regards right to repair…
https://www.ifixit.com/News/79902/apples-u-turn-tech-giant-finally-backs-repair-in-california
Next… Shimano… 😹
Pretty arrogant of you to be criticising the people who invent these things in the first place.
Nobody is above criticism, certainly companies coining it from products designed to be binned 24-36 months after they're sold. They don't need you to defend them from arrogant tossers like me, the industry is apparently worth ~$450 Billion a year.
A decade ago I could pay £20 and swap the bastard thing myself, now apparently get the privilege of paying some sweaty oddball in a crappy shop twice as much to pry it open, swap the same part and glue it back together. And you think I should be grateful?
Personally, I’d love to see the regular watch manufacturers (Casio), offer an easy (idiot-proof) way to replace the battery on a G-Shock.
I've changed several G-shock batteries, including tough solar jobbies, and I'm an idiot.
^^^^^
Just like your first clipless pedals, you’ll want to experience the satisfying, tactile clunk as the new battery slides into place😉😉😉
EV batteries are generally already replaceable.
Not if it is a Tossla model 'Y' apparently. An article in a recent trade rag claimed that these are write offs as soon as any accident damage gets near the battery pack. Which is true of all EVs of course, but because the model 'Y' is built around the battery pack, rather than the battery pack being bolted to the main structure of the car this makes them instantly beyond economic repair.
Back on topic. I think the EU directive is more to do with end of life? Tis not really about consumers swapping batteries, that's just a bonus.
My S10 no longer runs banking apps or anything with a security portal properly (so i can’t get to the kids school reports or my works time booking stuff or the hospital portal).
That's weird. I'm still happily using my S8, which I've had for quite a few years. It's quite content to run my Lloyds and Halifax banking apps, and whatever else I throw at it.
That’s weird. I’m still happily using my S8, which I’ve had for quite a few years. It’s quite content to run my Lloyds and Halifax banking apps, and whatever else I throw at it.
+1, S10 and an S8 in this house both running various banking apps.
I use to have an S4 active that managed to be waterproof and have a removable battery, so it's not an insurmountable problem in a modern smartphone, although it wasn't 30+meter waterproof indefinitely like some new models, just 'survive being dropped in the bath, rain, swimming pool, or a sweaty pocket" waterproof.
What can i tell you, S10 no longer runs the requisite security software to enable me to log into my bank.
I can run the actual banking software on the phone (i just tried) but i need to use a more up to date device to actually do the whole MFA thing.
