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If you felt it was time to start dipping your toe into actually trying to do something about your belief that the health of the planet was way more important than anything else, where would you start looking?
Is the Green Party any good? What about Greenpeace, Friends of the Earth, Extinction Rebellion?
What can a nobody surrounded by a sea of humanity actually do? Try change things locally or sign up to bigger national and international organisations?
We have a local green group - actually affiliated somewhat loosely with the Quakers - it's been going for years.
Other than that, the best starting place for me was to grow some of my own vegetables in the garden.
The latest David Attenborough book is great btw.
IMO there's two aspects, the things you can affect personally, and the things that require collective action.
The first is fairly obvious: buy less, reuse more, recycle if you can't do the first two. Walk / cycle rather than drive, public transport, make your house energy efficient etc.
The second is harder, but the potential is greater. You have already highlighted several organisations which are trying to have an effect. ER has managed to make it into the mainstream media quite regularly, not always for the right reasons but it has at least got itself noticed.
Given that making the changes necessary to have a significant environmental impact are likely to be quite far reaching, there needs to be a shift in attitudes of the general public before a government will enact the relevant policies. For that reason I think ER overall have done a good job.
There also needs to be pressure on business to have a more sustainable business model. If consumers vote with their wallets to encourage this, the change could be quite rapid.
Can all chip away at reducing our personal impact on the planet; reducing meat intake, travel and general consumption etc. In terms of larger impact, the person I look to for inspiration is my very non-crusty daughter No 1 who has a responsible high powered job by day and is an ER activist, organiser and trainer at other times. She really is committed to trying to make change; I’ve seen her being interviewed on the main news chained to various things before being arrested and I couldn’t have been more proud she is standing up for the planet in some way which might, just, make a difference. Whatever you may think of ER’s methods (and they don’t always get it right) they have collectively got people discussing, debating and in many cases making personal and corporate commitments to reducing climate impact. Just go for it, you never know, you might be the next Thunberg.
I'm a gardener by profession so grow lots of things. I'm more interested in feeling like I was doing something towards the massive sea change in policy that'll be necessary across the world to halt then start reversing humankinds destruction of our ecosystem.
Obviously this is an overwhelmingly huge ambition so just looking for a place to start right now.
I have been very impressed with ER. Didn't want to charge headlong into it without looking into all my options. I guess you can be part of more than one group.
Also if you have a private pension fund, you can invest it in environmentally sustainable companies. I understand it's been a bumper year for these funds.
Become a farmer,
That^. Or become an engineer. Just do something constructive.
Don’t waste time and resources trying to get someone else to make a difference rather than you.
I used to work on farms, loved it. But couldn't see any way to make enough money to live. I worked out I was earning £1.42/hr. It was a great lifestyle though.
And there we have it! You want to do a bit, just a little, but don't actually want to get your hands dirty because it affects your bottom line too much.
And that's why all of these "movements" rarely achieve much.
Just sign up to a newsletter
As everyone's said, just do your bit and give if you can. We have a small monthly sub/donation going for the Green Party, we've attended a few local demonstrations (the new open cast up at Druridge Bay was sacked off eventually) and I was a bit shouty about some stupid coal gasification thing some local arsehole wanted to get going on the coastline here which was ultimately binned off (no idea if I had anything to do with it or not but I hope so!)
There's all the other stuff you can do that all adds up too- less meat & dairy, drive less, buy less new stuff unless you can't avoid it and if you do want/need something new try to avoid buying stuff from shitty companies or stuff made in shitty, opressive countries. You don't have to start wearing hessian underpants or anything, well you can if you want it's entirely up to you, no judging here.
<commie tin foil hat mode> Ultimately it comes down to freeing yourself from debt and/or the want for shiny new stuff- no need to buy shiny new stuff = no need to work as hard = no need to worry about income as much.</ctfhm>
TL;DR- it's not hard or expensive to do your bit but you might be uncomfortable or inconvenienced for a bit while you adjust which most people don't want.
Stu170. I don't really understand where you're coming from. I worked on farms in my twenties, would love to have carried on but there I'd very little money in farm labouring so I found another way to remain working outside and became a gardener. I'm hardly rolling in money!
I do try and do my bit more and more, but I'd also like to try help change things on a bigger scale. Thought it'd be a good thing to do rather than just shrug my shoulders.
My job is probably pretty green. I must have planted over 1000 trees, 5000 shrubs and about 20 hectares of wild flower meadow. I'm even learning how to scythe so I don't have to use petrol machinery on the meadows. Use electric machinery for other tasks. Just need to find a way to ditch the van.
The small % of people who care enough to do something can and good for them but in reality nothing is ever going to be done collectively (even in the country we live in) to make any difference.
Carbon neutral by 2050 is pretty much giving up before you start. Once it becomes too late and actually starts to impact people the number of those that care will go up but will be in a mess by then. You can gauge the level of interest in one way by looking at Green party popularity which in 2019 election was still at 3% which was pretty much the same as the Brexit party!
RollinD, that wasn't meant as a personal attack, although it does read that way.
For me the biggest problem is supermarkets, people have little idea where their food comes from, and the result of this is that meat is bad.
It really isn't and livestock production is vital to our food. Have a watch of kiss the ground with woody harelson.
The problem is a lot of farming practices are dictated by supermarkets and the consumer, until we are all willing to double our food bills, and that cash is going directly to the producer and not the middle man we are stuffed.
Chemically engineered/not very nutritional veg grown in concrete buildings and the countryside allowed to return to a dead scrub.
My carbon capture group has planted 5000 trees this month in our town and will plant another 10,000 by end of Feb.
I suggest you try and do the same.
And that's also not a great way to capture carbon either compared to other methods.
But all we hear is trees trees trees.
Become a farmer,
This, & then you can sell your arable fields to Taylor Wimpey etc to build 1000's of houses on.
You'll be rich beyond your wildest dreams.
singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/environmental-movements/#post-11642666
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 that’s really funny
The cattle and sheep farm I worked on in Devon was a beautiful example of high quality welfare and land management. Sadly it was not making money. I agree meat should be twice as expensive at least. The fact that you can buy a whole chicken for a fiver is vulgar really isn't it?
The fact that you can buy a whole chicken for a fiver is vulgar really isn’t it?
You was robbed. Anyway, chickens take up less space than coos.
The problem with all of these eschatological movements is that if you take their assertions to their logical conclusion you would need to ensure you don’t procreate, then kill yourself. The impact on the environment of your merely being alive is greater than anything against which you can mitigate.
I’m not against environmental causes, I just think that they’ve morphed in recent years into a replacement for religious asceticism.
JP
Become a farmer,
OP i think the poster is being ironic.
The reason you only earned £1.40 an hour is that's how much our food-chain leaves for producers, because our food is so cheap. That cheapness also creates a lot of externalities that **** up the local and global environment.
Why farmers carry on with it despite this is a mystery (well aside from it being their home, they have no transferable skills etc.)
Farmers have singlehandedly destroyed sooo much biodiversity since WWII I dont think becoming one would help much tbh. (Note: not all their fault but thats what has happened)
Singlehandedly destroyed.....(not all their fault)
Don't know how they can singlehandedly destroy biodiversity and it not be their fault entirely.
That's a pretty confusing post if you read it. Also absolute codswallop, chemical companies, the governments and consumer are the causes.
If you read into what's happening now and soil improvement, zero till, crop rotations, cover crops, there will vast improvements, if only the average Joe spent a few hours reading about what's happening, rather than glue themselves to trains we'd be in a better spot.
For example carbon capture programs, taking grasslands and covering them in trees, which is in fact making the problem worse.
Where I worked was low intensity farming. It seemed pretty in harmony with nature. Unfortunately it only survived because the farmers dad needed to lose income from his business wealth. They were all lovely people and it was a real pleasure to work there. So much space to breathe.
absolute codswallop, chemical companies, the governments and consumer are the causes.
Who put the chemicals on the earth or in the animals. Agriculture has caused a massive decline in biodiversity in the uk since 1940's .
If you read into what’s happening now and soil improvement, zero till, crop rotations, cover crops, there will vast improvements,
Wow, crop rotation, wonder where that idea came from....
Cover crops wont reverse the massive declines in farmland birds.
I've reached out to a few people today. I think the best place for me to start is my local cycle users group, local friends of the earth and I'll also try contact the closest Green party group.
Nationally I'll follow Greenpeace and ER.
See where life takes me.
It seemed pretty in harmony with nature
Without knowing any details it probably wasnt. I loved working on a farm in the 90's as you say so much space to breathe, just like all the farms I was around in early 2000's and yet the country still saw massive declines in biodiversity.
From where I've looked ER is fine if you are happy to be arrested but if like me this would cause issues with employment it might be best to look elsewhere.
OK, here’s what I do...
1. Cycle as much as possible. Not only does it help cut down my personal footprint, but it is helping normalise cycling and increases cycle safety. The more bikes there are on the road, the lower the rate of cycling road traffic accidents.
2. Set up a cargobike delivery service - this was my slightly extreme reaction to lockdown. But there are various cycling projects you could support - from getting your kids’ schools to adopt school streets, creating a cycling or walking ‘bus’ with neighbours kids to get children to schools car free, campaign for cutting off rat runs and creating play streets, supporting cycling routes etc. They lead to reductions in car ownership and traffic - and to nicer places in general as a bonus.
Why all this emphasis on cycling? Transport is the only area where we’re really not getting emissions down, and this is very much due to our dependency on cars. If we can create alternatives - cycle infrastructure and public transport and not insist they strictly ‘pay for themselves’ (hell, the roads don’t) we can start to alter this dynamic. Modelling good behaviour is something we can all do - it helps to create a new normal for those that are less convinced.
3. Read the New Scientist. Thirty odd years ago I read about the phenomenon of the ‘greenhouse effect’. Following the the science for all that time has really helped when I get confronted by climate change deniers. It’s also good for positive news when there are breakthroughs that will help.
4. Eat less meat, take fewer flights. Sort of goes without saying.
5. Joining a big campaigning organisation is good but look around at your local area. What small changes would help you and others live more sustainably? Campaign for them.
We are all drops in the ocean - yes we are tiny on our own, but the ripples from one community to the next can have a massive impact.
The most environmental thing you can do is not have children. The fundamental problem is there are too many people on the planet. In reality I’ve given up doing anything. There is no need from an environmental perspective to go mountain biking let alone a trip to the alps. The resources consumed to make an operate a cruise ship just to entertain people is eye watering. The problem I find with nearly all environmental groups is they are massive hypocrites. They expect everyone else to change whilst consuming huge quantities of resources. Has any environmental group calculated the carbon footprint of a demonstration once thousands have traveled from all over the country to participate?
The most environmental thing you can do is not have children. The fundamental problem is there are too many people on the planet. In reality I’ve given up doing anything. There is no need from an environmental perspective to go mountain biking let alone a trip to the alps. The resources consumed to make an operate a cruise ship just to entertain people is eye watering. The problem I find with nearly all environmental groups is they are massive hypocrites.
This x100. The best thing you can do for the environment, by FAR, is not have children. The argument always comes back along the lines it 'oh but we mean we want to be as environmentally friendly as we can whilst still have children, sustainability blah' but to be honest, the damage is done once you have a child and you may as well not bother doing anything else environmentally friendly by that point because you'll never come close to offsetting it.
My second thought is that what are we trying to achieve by 'saving the planet', a few more centuries for the human race to survive? Surely the quicker we dispatch ourselves the better from an earth point of view.
The fundamental problem is there are too many people on the planet
No the fundamental problem is that a small proportion of people use the vast majority of the resources.
No the fundamental problem is that a small proportion of people use the vast majority of the resources.
Funny, i thought it was the incredibly large number of people in China who were using all the coal and fossil fuels to power their country. Which small proportion are you referring to? Names.
The planet doesn’t need saving. It will be fine and will adapt as it has for millions of years. What environmentalists are trying to do is to maintain the current status quo as if humans have some sort of devine right to be able to live on the planet indefinitely. We don’t. We just happen to be the current apex species that have adapted best to the current conditions on the planet. That will change in due course as it always has
as if humans have done sort of Devine right to be able to live on the planet indefinitely.
Somewhere on 8.7 million other forums every other species that got the gig of sharing earth at the same time as humans are wondering what they did wrong and would be awfully grateful if the humans would stop stirring the pot quite so vigorously.
The problem with campaign groups is that they're asking the wrong people to do the right thing. We need to get the right people elected, so join and get active in your local Green Party.
Stop eating meat.
Its a huge, often overlooked, contributor to destroying the environment.
The focus is always on paper straws instead of the huge emissions cause by the meat industry.
The problem with campaign groups is that they’re asking the wrong people to do the right thing. We need to get the right people elected, so join and get active in your local Green Party.
that won’t make any difference what so ever. How is any party going to stop China, India the USA consuming vast resources. How is any party going to stop millions of tons of stuff being moved and traded round the world? Are you willing to give up your mountain bikes, car, travel out eating anything not produced within a small radius of home? What about that nice biking jacket that is almost certainly made from plastic and oil?
I really struggle with the China blaming when it is used as an excuse for our own decisions not to get better. They have done a lot wrong, sure, but so have we, and for far longer. Only very recently have China's per capita emissions got to our levels, and a very big reason they have done so has been our desire to buy what their economy produces. We can affect our country's performance by democracy and so can citizens in every other democratic country. To say it doesn't make a difference because of this is a classic argument repeated typically by our and America's political right to justify not taking strides to do better, and it doesn't stack up in that context. Our country's performance is important; we can affect it. China's performance is important; we hope its government affects that too. We can have some influence on this but I can't see us getting very far if we aren't getting our own house in order.
America's per capita emissions are vastly higher still, yet plenty of folk there trot out the same argument.
We all know China burns too much coal and builds too many coal stations. However it's also worth noting that China itself has made some strides that a lot of developed countries have not. Its level of renewables generation for example, and supply of the relevant technologies, have been large. For a relatively long time.
Maybe people planting trees understand the issues involved and plant accordingly ? Too many internet experts in this thread that are desperate to have you believe everything you could do is wrong. OP ignore this misanthropic attitude, you can improve things.
you can improve things
Nobody is saying you can't; the extent to which is what is being disputed, and the end goal.