[Closed] Entitled dog owners

Some [s]dog owners[/s] [s]drivers[/s] [s]cyclists[/s] people are tits, but [s]most[/s] many aren't. I think. fixed

there is a solution to the issue of dogs interfering with people's picnics

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the priorities should be reversed with a fenced off dog toilet/ exercise area and zero dog presence for the rest of the park

Not sure about zero presence. the problem is badly behaved dogs and their irresponsible owners not dogs per se

you can d that with cars, bikes, people /children whatever

If it ever happens, it will be an awesome day when city parks become dog free zones. Nothing against dogs, just don't like seeing city parks becoming no go zones for families and kids as there are just too many dog produced land mines.

Reported by mrs aracer

It's natural for a free running dog to check out a picnic in a public place, the argument is whether the dog should be on a lead for the whole picnic season just because it may happen to run upon a picnic (picnicers aren't always visible from a distance in order that one can leash the dog in time). - these things will happen, the important thing is to control your dog if you are aware of picnics, or deal politely with the potential fallout if not. People have to learn to co-exist in public spaces with the potential of all manner of variables as there's no shortage of nobs on either side.

And I don't get this - what the hell did the puppy do that was so objectionable that it was out of control anyway?? I can understand your righteous indignation if it had curled out a walnut whip in Mrs aracer's handbag, but it had a bit of a sniff of an unattended bag. So what? Not really a big deal, is it??

That's sort of my point. It's for Mrs aracer to decide whether it's a big deal or not, not the dog owner. When you're trying to prove a point it's easy to say anything short of someone getting bitten is "not a big deal", but the same's true of most inconsiderate behaviour. OK, in this instance it's not exactly anyone getting savaged, but it really gets my goat when dog owners basically abdicate responsibility for what their dog's doing and expect everyone else to like it.

[quote=Malvern Rider ]It's natural for a free running dog to check out a picnic in a public place, the argument is whether the dog should be on a lead for the whole picnic season just because it may happen to run upon a picnic

How about if you're in an area where you know people are likely to have picnics? The issue is still that it's not those having picnics interfering with your dog. If the dog is doing what is natural then clearly it's not actually under control, and the likelihood is that it's never under control when running free in such areas whether or not anybody has a picnic. It's simply that usually you get away with it.

I'd happily shout at a dog if it was sniffing my stuff. Nothing nasty about it but I just don't like it.

When you're trying to prove a point it's easy to say anything short of someone getting bitten is "not a big deal", but the same's true of most inconsiderate behaviour. OK, in this instance it's not exactly anyone getting savaged, but it really gets my goat when dog owners basically abdicate responsibility for what their dog's doing and expect everyone else to like it

This.
I'm bruised and sore right now because of a free-running dog yesterday. I haven't broken any bones so that's ok then?

Hint: there is a solution to the issue of dogs interfering with people's picnics which doesn't involve people not having picnics. Well actually I can think of a couple, one if which is to ban dogs from parks, is that your preferred solution?

Did you read what I said? If you did, you'll note that I said that

(a) people [i]shouldn't be surprised[/i] if a dog comes along in a full-of-dogs park. I didn't mention banning anyone, or stopping people having picnics. But the dog owners are entitled to be there, just as much as the picnickers, and the dog owners are there 52 weeks a year, not just for two weekends in the summer.

(b) tolerance on both sides is a good thing.

Now, tell me again what I said that was so wrong.

[quote=nickf ]Did you read what I said? If you did, you'll note that I said that
(a) people shouldn't be surprised if a dog comes along

Ah, translation: "people shouldn't be surprised that dog owners feel entitled for their dog to do what it likes". How galling it is for you that some other people don't like your dog not being under control.

But the dog owners are entitled to be there, just as much as the picnickers, and the dog owners are there 52 weeks a year, not just for two weekends in the summer.

I don't think anybody disagrees that dog owners are allowed to be there - I think some of us are even happy if they bring their dogs. What we're suggesting is unacceptable is when the dogs interfere with other people who are also allowed to be there. Oh and BTW I do also particularly like the sense of entitlement which comes from being there more often.

(b) tolerance on both sides is a good thing.

Can you remind me again what the dog owners are being tolerant of? Other people sitting there minding their own business not interfering with their dogs? It doesn't seem a particularly two way thing this tolerance.

Oh and I noticed that you didn't suggest stopping anything or banning anything, just as I'm not suggesting stopping or banning dogs [b]which are sufficiently under control that they don't come interfering with my things, sniffing around my picnic, or jumping up at my kids who might be afraid of dogs[/b]

Somehow I had expected that free-running dogs are under control. It appears from the above and similar experiences to the OPs that I shouldn't expect that.

I now remember why I left this place for over a year.

Don't worry, I'll not be back.

(a) people shouldn't be surprised if a dog comes along in a full-of-dogs park.

No, they shouldn't be surprised. But they absolutely, unequivocally have the right to be left alone to go about their day without being hassled by other people and / or their dogs.

If your dog is sniffing around someone else who's sitting their minding their own business, [i]you[/i] are intruding on [i]their[/i] space. No ifs, not buts, no excuses, no "he's only a puppy and it's what they do," take some responsibility. You do not have a dog-given right to mither others.

Quite why some people think that a shared public space where children play is a great place to use as a free-roaming dog toilet is beyond me anyway, but that's a whole other argument.

[quote=nickf ]I now remember why I left this place for over a year.
Don't worry, I'll not be back.

Because people disagree with you, not everybody loves your dog as much as you do, and you don't appreciate being told that your dog isn't under control if it's sniffing at somebody else's picnic or jumping up and stealing food from somebody else's kid?

Missing you already.

Though congratulations on singlehandedly proving the title of the thread.

Though congratulations on singlehandedly proving the title of the thread.

Singlehoundedly?

(sorry)

Because people disagree with you

No I think it's because you are coming across as a sanctimonious prick.

She'd left her bag round the other side of a pond

If you have a dog picnics are a nightmare, as the amount of litter left around is a PITA

A sanctimonious prick who thinks dogs should be under control?

Whereas he and presumably other dog owners on this thread doesn't think there's anything wrong with an out of control dog sniffing around a picnic, or jumping up on a child (so long as he buys an ice cream).

If you have a dog picnics are a nightmare

If only there was some way of, I don't know, tethering your animal to you so that in didn't run off uncontrollably at the first whiff of someone else's food. Radical I know, it'll never catch on.

(And TBH, litter is a PITA regardless of your dog-ownership status; grotty buggers, take it away with you.)

Well that's 3 minutes I'll never get back, what a load of old cobblers.

If you have a dog picnics are a nightmare

Shirley Put them on a lead when there is a high risk of them wandering off into other peoples picnic??

Because people disagree with you, not everybody loves your dog as much as you do, and you don't appreciate being told that your dog isn't under control if it's sniffing at somebody else's picnic or jumping up and stealing food from somebody else's kid?

No, because of the usual pick-holes-in-what-people-say bitchiness and general whining on STW.

For the record,(and this really is my last post on this or any subject) I have my dogs under control. I don't take them to the park in the summer precisely because there are picnickers there and it means I'd have to keep the dogs on the lead in case a hysterical muppet might think my dogs (friendly, well-controlled) are about to attack a child. I have no time for those irresponsible dog-owners who don't clean up after their animals.

Tolerance is what you need, not a narrow-minded viewpoint that you are right and everyone else is wrong. I keep my dogs away from mollycoddled children and hysterical parents because it's just too much like hard work to deal with the hassle. I shouldn't have to, but I do so because, after all, life's just too short.

Can't imagine anything like that happening around our way - most of the dogs and dog owners have far too much filling and scattering of poo bags to be getting on with. 😀

[quote=nickf ]Tolerance is what you need, not a narrow-minded viewpoint that you are right and everyone else is wrong.

I've already said that I'm tolerant of dogs which are under control - I actually quite like dogs (which aren't interfering with me and my stuff). Is it OK if that's all I'm tolerant of?

I keep my dogs away from mollycoddled children and hysterical parents because it's just too much like hard work to deal with the hassle. I shouldn't have to, but I do so because, after all, life's just too short.

Would it be "pick-holes-in-what-people-say bitchiness" to wonder why you think you shouldn't have to keep your dogs away from other people (some of whom, and not just the mollycoddled and hysterical, might not like dogs - or are they by definition mollycoddled and hysterical in that case)?

Or maybe just "pick-holes-in-what-people-say bitchiness" to correct:

[quote=nickf ]I don't take them to the park in the summer precisely because there are picnickers there and it means I'd have to keep the dogs on the lead in case a [s]hysterical muppet[/s] normal person might get upset at [s]think[/s] my dogs (friendly, well-controlled when on a lead) [s]are about to attack a child.[/s] sniffing around their picnic

If only there was some way of, I don't know, tethering your animal to you so that in didn't run off uncontrollably at the first whiff of someone else's food. Radical I know, it'll never catch on.

Its the ****ing litter *everywhere* that makes it a real problem, so in the rare event of taking them anywhere where people picnic I have the joy of them pulling rubbish,plastic packaging, nappies and human shit out of the undergrowth.

If I see a picnic mine go on the lead as 1 of them was regularly fed by picnickers when he was younger so he has learnt to sit by a picnic and look hungry, and the other was also starved to death and then dumped by her previous owners so has a bit of a thing about food.

Also if someone yelled at me about my dog sniffing their abandoned bag, I think I would just laugh at them tbh; as I would think they were a bit special.

No, because of the usual pick-holes-in-what-people-say bitchiness and general whining on STW.

I thought you were't going to be back?

I shouldn't have to

Yes, you really should. And the fact that some dog owners either can't or won't see that is the root of the problem.

I like dogs. I'd have one myself if I was prepared to deal with the responsibility. But plenty of people don't, or are scared of them, or allergic to them. Plenty of people also have this wacky, irrational aversion to getting their bags peed on (as a random example). And you know what, they are well within their rights to reasonably expect to be able to go for a walk without getting covered in slobber, slutch or dog hair from someone else's pooch. You're not being special in not bothering people, I don't bother lots of people on a daily basis and don't give it a second thought.

If your dogs are under control they won't be going anywhere near the picnicers, will they? Do these people leap up and shout "oh my god, a dog! Quick Brian, hide the Spam!" from the other end of the park when they see you? I don't think I'd be walking a dog in that park either, it sounds like it's full of weirdos.

I genuinely applaud the fact that you sound like a responsible, respectful dog owner. I'm just a little confused as to why you appear to resent being so.

Also if someone yelled at me about my dog sniffing their abandoned bag,

No-one yelled at the owner
Bag was not abandoned

How about if you're in an area where you know people are likely to have picnics?

As I wrote: The important thing is for you to control your dog if you aware of people having picnics.

This would (hopefully) be the same if one thought it likely that there are picnicers. I know it would for me. That's what leads are for! Get along, people!

nickf » Tolerance is what you need, not a narrow-minded viewpoint that you are right and everyone else is wrong.
...
Don't worry, I'll not be back.

*Preaches Tolerance*

[IMG] [/IMG]

Rage Quits!

😀

molgrips - Member
Also if someone yelled at me about my dog sniffing their abandoned bag,
No-one yelled at the owner
Bag was not abandoned

The bag was dumped/left/abandoned on the opposite side of the pond to its owner.

As for the yelling part I was referring the aracers reply that he would have been much more confrontational if he had been there; mind you he could be an 'internet warrior' in which case the reality is he would have just mumbled into his latte.

Ah, sorry MR - lost in translation. Certainly wasn't meaning to have a go at you.

The bag was dumped/left/abandoned on the opposite side of the pond to its owner.

She shouted at the [u]dog[/u] to get away from the bag

What would have been acceptable? a polite conversation with the dog?

Yes the bag was left, but i really can't see what is wrong with shouting at a dog to leave someones belongings alone regardless of where they are.

Shouting at the owner on the other hand is a different matter, but that isn't the issue here.

[quote=richc ]As for the yelling part I was referring the aracers reply that he would have been much more confrontational if he had been there; mind you he could be an 'internet warrior' in which case the reality is he would have just mumbled into his latte.

Oh believe me I've been pretty confrontational with irresponsible dog owners. Not that it involves yelling, and in case you missed it the original situation involved shouting at the dog, and the dog owner then being rude and confrontational.

As for the yelling part I was referring the aracers reply that he would have been much more confrontational if he had been there

I think he means he'd have yelled at the owner for yelling at his wife. As I would too - well perhaps not yell but I'd have had a word.

What would have been acceptable? a polite conversation with the dog?

Yes the bag was left, but i really can't see what is wrong with shouting at a dog to leave someones belongings alone regardless of where they are.

Just to clarify, if someone shouted at my dog for sniffing their bag I *wouldn't* have a problem with that at all, only thing I might be worried about is why I didn't spot it first. Not that I see anyone when I walk my dogs (well I might see 4 people a month)

Oh believe me I've been pretty confrontational with irresponsible dog owners. Not that it involves yelling

So what does it involve? Just to see what you consider to be confrontational, as it might be wildly different to what other people consider to be confrontational.

I think he means he'd have yelled at the owner for yelling at his wife.

If that's what he meant then that seems reasonable to me tbh. May'be not the brightest thing to do but not completely unreasonable.

[quote=richc ]Just to clarify, if someone shouted at my dog for sniffing their bag I *wouldn't* have a problem with that at all, only thing I might be worried about is why I didn't spot it first.

Good, most of this thread clearly doesn't apply to you.

So what does it involve? Just to see what you consider to be confrontation, as it might be wildly different to what other people consider to be confrontational.

Forcefully stating my case and being unwilling to back down (though you might have guessed that unless you really do think I'm a keyboard warrior 😉 ). I think I did mention earlier that I got my phone out to call the police given one woman's attitude that I was in the wrong when her dog bit me. I might have also got quite close into her personal space in that case.

I think I did mention earlier that I got my phone out to call the police given one woman's attitude that I was in the wrong when her dog bit me.

How many run in's with dogs do you have?

I've had dogs for years and only had a couple of issues namely: big group of dogs playing in middle of park in a large knot, and a man decided that he wanted to stand exactly where they were playing so took large (50M) detour to march through them kicking them as he approached; and my girlfriend who got yelled at to pick up the dogs pee in a park as its disgusting!

I might have also got quite close into her personal space in that case.

well perhaps not yell but I'd have had a word.

Say you would rip their head off and stamp on thei spleen not i would politely express my dissmay at their discourteous behaviour
Yours
CHAV

he and presumably other dog owners on this thread

[quote=richc ]I've had dogs for years and only had a couple of issues

Well by the sounds of things you're a responsible dog owner, so not surprising you've no experience of the sort of issues I've had with irresponsible ones! FWIW I agree that the people you mention are stupid. Not like I've had hundreds, but I've been bitten at least 5 times I can think of, the only thing I was doing wrong in any of those incidents was either running or riding a bike (and been told that I should have stopped running/riding rather than them keep their dog under control).

Hmmmmmm, that's not good as while I can appreciated you were understandably pissed off about being bitten, intimidating/scaring a woman, especially if she was alone isn't a very nice thing to do.

Oh I agree, but I was angry (which is no excuse) - not so much at being bitten as at her attitude to the bite. I still don't think she was very nice.

I reckon you've got a strong case for a compensation claim here.. not only for the distressing episode with the dog but also for the trauma that you must have suffered as a result of this thread

[i] I've been bitten at least 5 times I can think of,[/i]

Bloody hell, you need to contact [s]Roy Castle[/s] [s]Ross McWhirter[/s] Marco Frigatti !

There has to be an element of personal responsibility on BOTH sides of this story.

If you leave a bag unattended and something happens to it (stolen/damaged/sniffed by a pup), you have to take primary responsibility for putting yourself in that situation due to not looking after your own property. I wouldn't leave my car with the keys in "because I should be able to". Same principle applies.

On the other hand, as an owner of a puppy myself (10 month old Patterdale terrier), I know to put him on the lead in areas that could harbour potential conflict with less tolerant people, regardless of who is at fault.

Bit of both at fault here.

Not worth 3 pages though.

got yelled at to pick up the dogs pee in a park as its disgusting!

That happened to me once. Very odd not sure what the bloke hoped to achieve really he went proper mental. I agreed with him it was a little bit unfortunate but there wasnt really anything I could do about it. He carried on swearing and trying to be intimidating expecting me to run away I think. Fat **** wouldnt take a swing when invited though.... I dont get some people, so much aggression and yet so controlled at not escalating anything.

Oh and OP the dog needs to be [u]dangerously[/u] out of control for it to be a problem and I dont think sniffing a bag counts.