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And (so far) there are still plenty of my daughter’s cohort missing out on their university places, despite now getting better grades than their original offer required. A problem not faced by those at public schools. This isn’t over yet…
WTF
Yup, but that poster is a bit late to the party. That effect was obvious as soon as the results were announced on Thursday.
This isn’t over yet…
Sadly, not by a long way and in many different ways. Already a fair few reports of schools being contacted by irate parents about CAGs, and at least one headteacher (or at least a troll posing as a headteacher) contacting 5 News complaining that although their school did the CAGs fairly, they 'know' other schools didn't so their students are disadvantaged by the u-turn position.
More (played for?) culture war stuff on the cards - public (parents) vs schools and teachers, school vs school, etc. All while we are trying to be ready to reopen fully in a couple of week's time...
Just waiting for the announcement that Ofqual is being disbanded and replaced by some organisation headed up by Dido...
Kimbers that's what I posted 4 days ago and was called a load of old bollocks by our resident teacher.
It gets better, the schools now have to issue the CAG grades for GCSE now instead of the exam boards, the exam boards will be sending out the confirmed grades next week. Even more pressures on schools already reeling from the backlash against the grades the schools put in now the government has surrendered any responsibility for the disaster.
It's totally unfair to expect the schools to have deal with this, the emails coming in from parents are generally pathetic with some being quite abusive and even threatening legal action because they think little Johnny deserved better. Teachers and support staff have been through enough without this rubbish. Next big one will be FOI requests, not like schools don't have enough to work through with GCSEs and trying to make sense of the mental expectations for re-openning.
Oh and just to make it even more fun apparently some grades may go up above the CAG grades when they are finally issued next week. Something else to beat the schools up with.
Oh and just to make it even more fun apparently some grades may go up above the CAG grades when they are finally issued next week. Something else to beat the schools up with.
To be fair, poor old Gavlar had to throw something in there to appease all the fee-paying parents and still give them some kind of edge over the plebs.
Has anyone else noticed that Gavin Williamson could be Frank Spencer's love child?
Yup. It's a long standing joke on eduTwitter.
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Do people just not like admitting they backed an idiot?
Basically yes. See also Brexit.
This caught my eye:
Miles King
@MilesKing10
· Aug 13
Appears that Ofqual's algorithm caused today's A-level chaos. Ofqual chair Roger Taylor, also chairs the Centre for Data Ethics & Innovation (CDEI). Cummings' fave AI consultants - Faculty, have some juicy contracts with CDEI. And Faculty's COO Richard Sargeant is on CDEI board.
Gav on R4/BBC
Mr Williamson said it had been the common view of the government, Ofqual, and the devolved administrations in Wales and Northern Ireland of different political parties that the system in place was more robust and "significantly better" than that in Scotland, after an earlier U-turn there.
But after the release of A-level results on Thursday he said it "became increasingly apparent that there were too many young people that quite simply hadn't got the grade they truly deserved".
It became apparent on Thursday there were too many affected.
Frankly, bollocks. Do they think we believe they ran the algorithm on Wednesday and this is a surprise. They've known the impact on grades for weeks or months, and could have released to schools sooner as well and seen the impact AND if necessary refined.
Bollocks. They thought like everything else they could just brazen it out and it would go away. Wrong again.
Boris and co will get their grades in due course, and I'm hoping they get F across the board.
Frankly, bollocks. Do they think we believe they ran the algorithm on Wednesday and this is a surprise. They’ve known the impact on grades for weeks or months, and could have released to schools sooner as well and seen the impact AND if necessary refined.
This.
I still have some sympathy for OFQual despite the cockup, I imagine there was all sorts of political diktats issued and then silence, followed up by well you got all that wrong.
My guess is Gav will remain in post until a week or so after schools go back, when that falls apart miserably he'll be axed then, no point in taking him out now when we still have GCSEs to be issued and school returning. Might as well let him take the blame before wheeling the next incompetent in.
He might get moved back to Defence in a Cabinet re-shuffle, after all he was such a huge success there the first time
Poor Matty Hancock could have avoided all of this were it not for Gove abolishing coursework and modular exams (in state schools) in England plus a load of vocational courses. The universities have now got to increase numbers for medicine (not easy) and if GCSEs are inflated there'll be kids signing up for the wrong courses in the 6th form. A fecal thunderstorm. Plus he's being told his credibility is shot (prelude to 'resignation'?) and he's issued a photo with ministerial brief plus a little book (of blackmail?) sitting atop a whip. This man is a sophisticate. Someone needs to tell him the average exam board has all of about six trained staff to deal with the complex demands of appeals. He hasn't done his homework, again.
Faculty haven't yet claimed they have had Fac all to do with the algorithm so they're still under suspicion. Wonder how much they got paid for that?
Edit: Not Hancock but Williamson. Senior moment but it's easy to get confused with so many r soles in this outfit.
Boris and co will get their grades in due course, and I’m hoping they get F across the board
More likely to be an F and a U.
Having not really read up much about this, is it really the massive problem it is being made out to be in the first instance, they appear to have used an algorithm that may have been slightly flawed, but have now replaced that by basically giving pupils the grades they want, as if passing was a foregone conclusion?
From my own (25 years ago) experiences, i remember that at the exam we had the best in the class panic and fail, we had some in the lower end sail through, you can't really generate that environment (as well as the stress) through an algorithm, so you're always going to have those who benefit, or don't benefit from not taking an exam.
I just worry about the effect of more Uni places and more students going into full time education with a lower level of knowledge and understanding, they're already behind the curve due to Covid-19, next year is going to be harder than most for Uni students, and to add more numbers with the same resource (or less!) is just keeping this issue burning away.
but have now replaced that by basically giving pupils the grades they want, as if passing was a foregone conclusion?
No its give them the teacher assessed grades or the algorithm (whichever was highest). So not what they wanted.
As far as I am aware they didnt apply any random "you had a shit day" changes to grades so your comments about people having a bad day are irrelevant. To try and do that via an algorithm in a fair way you would need to know a hell of a lot about each individual student which they didnt.
One small point of order (but one the media is missing and its winding the profession up a bit).
They are not 'Teacher Assessed Grades', they are 'Centre Assessed Grades'. Teachers may have generated them originally, but in the vast majority (should be all) of cases they then went through an internal moderation process through heads of department and leadership teams, in many cases where they had a local version of the algorithm (or similar process to account for prior attainment) applied to them.
The distinction is a fine one but important. We're already anecdotally seeing individual teachers under attack for the grades they have awarded, when in fact those published grades may look quite different from what the teacher submitted.
they are ‘Centre Assessed Grades’
They're also not "predicted grades". I think some of the distress online was because some students were comparing the grade the'd been awarded with the predicted grade they were given for UCAS or with the grades needed for the offer that they were holding.
is it really the massive problem it is being made out to be in the first instance
Yeah it is for a good number of schools and students. The algorithm worked at a global level, but failed spectacularly at a school and individual level. No algorithm was going to get it right at student level but at school level it should have been possible at the cost of a bit of grade inflation (not as much as we will now get with center assessed grades which is expected and understandable). I can't be bothered to explain it all again but suffice to say it was easily predictable and could have been worked around.
colournoise, really good point, most schools went through a major moderation exercise and tried to be professional as they could given the lack of guidance and rushed manner this was all done under, these grades weren't plucked out of the air.
miketually, also spot on, my wife's been making the point repeatedly to students that UCAS grades are completely different from CAG grades. Mind you the standard of some of the appeals coming in answers the question why little Johnny didn't get the grade they wanted, parents are obviously unable to read the documentation and explanations sent out and incapable of forming a coherent argument beyond it's not fair and I think my little angel deserves better (and they are the nicer emails coming in).
The press is doing its usual job of failing to explain properly and whipping up emotions and trying to turn it into a class war, yes private schools came out of this better but there's no evidence it was deliberate, just a result of the massive cock up in the way it was done.
The algorithm worked at a global level, but failed spectacularly at a school and individual level.
Our college's value added over the previous three years was +0.12, +0.06 and +0.18 so a sensible algorithm would have given us around +0.12 this year but instead it's given us around 0.00 - in a typical year we have one U grade from 1000 students but this year had a dozen.
For my course, the algorithm gave us our worst results since we started getting results using the new A-level specs in 2017.
We expected the algorithm to move the boundaries around a little to standardise between centres, but it completely failed to do that.
Having not really read up much about this, is it really the massive problem it is being made out to be in the first instance, they appear to have used an algorithm that may have been slightly flawed, but have now replaced that by basically giving pupils the grades they want, as if passing was a foregone conclusion?
'I know nothing about this, and can't be bothered to find out, but that's not going to stop me giving out my ill-informed opinions anyway'
And this is why democracy is broken.
@Grum, i'm pretty sure most are like this, unless you have a working knowledge of the algorithm that was utilised, how it was, and who created it, and how this has actually affected the results nationwide, i know of the news reports, they appear focused on class and those who have missed out due to the grading, as you'd expect from news agencies focusing on juicier stories, but what is the actual level of the problem in the first instance, i.e. the initial results against previous years in terms of pass rates, appeals, etc?
As for democracy, i'm not sure of your point, or how this is linked to how democracy should work and how it currently works in your opinion?
Having not really read up much about this, is it really the massive problem it is being made out to be in the first instance, they appear to have used an algorithm that may have been slightly flawed, but have now replaced that by basically giving pupils the grades they want, as if passing was a foregone conclusion?
problem is that university places are allocated based on offers so the best courses have all been taken up already, doesnt matter what new grades they give out the places have gone and 1000s of students have missed out
know of the news reports, they appear focused on class and those who have missed out due to the grading, as you’d expect from news agencies focusing on juicier stories, but what is the actual level of the problem in the first instance,
according the Times report a few pages back average private school grade inflation 15%, compared to 0.3% for other 6th formers
plenty of the media have gone into detail into how badly this has messed up & why its not a trvial cock up, several linked to on this thread already
Seeing some amazing tales of GCSE grade changes on Twitter:
Pupils entered for Foundation tier getting grades 6 and up, school who previously had native speakers on language courses but now don't getting hugely upgraded, schools who entered weaker students in separate sciences for the first time getting grade profiles based on much more able students, etc.
And schools are only seeing the grades that we're moved up...
Well I see this was another too-good-to-miss opportunity to empty public funds into the cronies' pockets ..
Wait ‘till it finally breaks who developed the algorithm… and how they are linked to the Vote Leave chancers at no10 & the Cabinet Office…
Maybe Dido Harding can run Ofqual too ?
Well, at our place most kids seem happy/relieved (except the BTEC ones...) and ultimately that's what matters. I just hope some real reflection and positive change on a national scale come out of this for next year's cohort and beyond.
I'll not hold my breath though...
The Btec disaster is, for individual students, the worst of all the education ****ups, and it's hitting the kids that need it the least, but inevitably it's a side note because it's not Our Kids and the parents of Our Kids mostly think college is for Their Kids.
Yeah lot less drama in my wife's school and my daughter's grades (different school) I think are a fair reflection of her abilities, bit up from her mocks but she's the sort who would have would have taken the hint from her mock results and was putting extra effort in.
BTecs, cluster ****.
bit up from her mocks
Down for all of my sons and it has hit him hard an affected his immediate future.
Anyone thought where all these extra students suddenly being accepted on courses are going to live, or sleep, wirth social distancing in place on teaching areas and student hostels.add in some unios running so short of cash they may well go bust or have to merge with others doing the same courses resulting in job losses , its going to be a very testing time for all for the next year.
My lad is just going into Year 13, and wondering if there will be enough places on courses for his year going into uni in September 2021
Durham Uni are offering to pay students to defer to 2021 entry.
Durham Uni are offering to pay students to defer to 2021 entry.
That was the story that provoked the conversation, though Durham isn't on his list 🤞
Down for all of my sons and it has hit him hard an affected his immediate future.
Sorry to hear that, wasn't there supposed to be a triple lock so you basically could take the highest of the CAG grades, mocks and exam board award. Mind you they pulled the criteria for mocks hours after publishing it and haven't issued the exam board grades for GCSE. It might be worth contacting the school if you haven't already, just keep it polite, they are having to deal with a lot of abuse and threats at the moment (people threatening legal action, playing the race card, playing the SEN card etc.). It's not the schools fault this all got messed up so badly.
wasn’t there supposed to be a triple lock so you basically could take the highest of the CAG grades, mocks and exam board award
I think that was watered down and then scrapped when they U-turned.
Students get the highest of the CAG and their calculated grades. Appeals are limited to admin errors or discrimination.
I guess there could be a risk that by 'manipulating' certain grades down a school could be selective on who it then allows onto A level courses, in turn increasing likelihood of good grades at A level in 2 years time?
mike, yes you are right, wife's just confirmed it, I can't keep up. I know the appeals process is limited, not stopping lots of parents kicking off though.
Slightly astonished they actually found a school willing to let him in...
https://twitter.com/educationgovuk/status/1296839680785289224?s=19