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Firstly no, not my employer, nothing like that. 🙂
Mrs PPs employer is the issue here
Background
Every 5 years we go to the Isle of Man TT races. This is a fixed time, first two weeks in June. We're off for about 10 nights, leaving mid week, then one full week, then back to work.
Mrs PP put some holiday requests in a couple of weeks back and they were all approved apart from this one. Today she tells me they're being difficult about it. "Not happy with you taking the time off. We're busy" etc
Now the TT MUST be booked a year in advance to get decent ferry crossings and we've laid out £500 on those already. I've booked the accommodation and paid a deposit. This can't be changed and we've already laid out about half a months salary for me.
I've told her to tell them to poke it (nicely) and say they can approve it or not, she won't be there. I'm quite prepared to get her managers phone number and tell him myself, and I might well do that.
But legally, where does she stand? My guess is she can't be fired for it, it sounds unreasonable to be refused when giving so much notice to me.
This really gets my back up too. she doesn't get paid anywhere near what she's worth, she's covering for people earning 2-3 times her salary (no exaggeration) and if they want to play that game they've taken me on as well......
Sorry. Rant over.
Advice?
Most contracts state leave is at the managers / employers discretion. Just phone in sick, what can they do? Just drink too much while you're over there, take a photo of her vomiting and send it in.
She's requested holiday and not been given them. If that's because her employer is too busy then that's a genuine enough reason.
If she doesn't go in, they've every right to sack her.
I'm sure they're quakeing in their boots right now 🙄if they want to play that game they've taken me on as well.....
But to my mind they're being unreasonable here
If that's because her employer is too busy then that's a genuine enough reason.
Nature of business might be intriguingly relevant here. Totally understand if you can't/won't disclose, PP.
Your other halfs employer is not under a legal obligation to approve exactly the dates you want year after year.
If it doesn't suit the needs of the business and there is inadequate cover then they're behaving perfectly reasonably. It's not very nice but that's being employed.
I manage holiday requirements for a team of about 12 people. I try hard to find ways to say yes. Every once in a while I say "no" because we can't accommodate it.
I get told "no" about once every three or four years myself so I'm not immune to it either.
and we've laid out £500
Before you've got the holiday signed off?
She's requested holiday and not been given them. If that's because her employer is too busy then that's a genuine enough reason.
Yup that's it but I'll add they're doesn't really need to be a reason.
If she doesn't go in, they've every right to sack her.
Quite. You've kindly told them you're going away so may not pay you for unauthorized absence or worse.
if they want to play that game they've taken me on as well.....
No they haven't and you ranting at them won't help.
Cant see how they are being unreasonable. Just because you've had your own way in previous years.
Before you've got the holiday signed off?
No choice. That's the way it works. She can't book holiday until January, we had to pay up in December
We'll be going either way. We don't live to work. Screw em.
PUBLICSEMINAR.ORG She's working on her cv as we speak, by the way.
Can we rename this thread to [i]employee[/i] being an ass now?
[quote=PeterPoddy ]Before you've got the holiday signed off?
No choice. That's the way it works.
We'll be going either way. We don't live to work. Screw em.
Why can't she book her holiday a year in advance when you book the tickets?
Probably just as well but no employer is going to guarantee holidays when you want them.
If they can't organise cover when notified 6 months in advance then IMO that's a problem. I wouldn't be pleased at all and that alone would probably make me look for a new job. Appreciate every industry is different etc etc.
Employer being an ass
We'll be going either way. We don't live to work. Screw em.
Uh-huh 😆
If all her other requests have been approved it doesn't seem like they're just being awkward. Maybe other people have already booked for that period and they'd be genuinely stretched if your wife was off then too?
Bah, don't worry about it, life's too short, just go
It's a pain but they're within their rights.
You kinda jumped the gun splashing out on non-refundable things too early.
Now they know she wants to go she'd get fired for calling in sick.
Basically, you're ****ed. Get a mate to go with you
If they can't organise cover when notified 6 months in advance then IMO that's a problem. I wouldn't be pleased at all and that alone would probably make me look for a new job. Appreciate every industry is different etc etc.
You can't create cover if it's not there no matter how much notice.
Cant see how they are being unreasonable.
OK. They make people on double her pay redundant because it saves them money. Then she ends up doing their jobs for half price. A few months back I had to beg her to leave work on time because they were taking the piss making her work overtime for free. The workload is too high for the pay, no doubt about that.
Becaus of the cutbacks there's nobody her boss trusts to cover for her, allegedly, even though she's found someone who's said they can and will do this. That's why they're being unreasonable.
They're screwing her and I don't like it, I guess anyone should feel the same about their wife, right?
And now they're screwing with me too.
Anyway. She's gonna tell em to poke it.
Goodnight all. 🙂
EDIT
Oh yeah, she's given them 5 months notice. They don't know their arses from their elbows at the best of times, but a) they've got time to sort cover and b) they haven't got a jeffing clue what they're doing that far in advance in my opinion.
Well there is time to get a new job, sounds like a crap job anyway.
That is probably your only option.
They are unfortunately correct though, and you getting arsey with them will not have any positive outcome.
Playing devil's advocate, you've known for a year when the event is, and she's left it till two weeks prior to book it? That's daft.
That said, I've always viewed holiday requests as "holiday notification." If you can't do without me for a couple of days you're not paying me enough.
[quote=Cougar ]Playing devil's advocate, you've known for a year when the event is, and she's left it till two weeks prior to book it? That's daft.
It would be if it were correct, but they've got about 5 1/2 months till the TT...
If they can't organise cover when notified 6 months in advance then IMO that's a problem.
That does suggest some management issues to me.
But they are well within their rights to refuse specific dates.
If you'd thought about this three months ago you could have got her pregnant and then they'd have to give her the time off 😉
Couger - IOM TT is in June not February - edit as above
lol at the pregancy jibe
tomorrow on my wifes birthday she has to take time out of her job (paid on performance) to cover her boss who'd double booked himself to give a presentation at the local school where her daughter was badly bullied & the school did **** all about it 👿 sometimes you just have to suck this s**t up
PP - every 5 years, you must have hit the monsoon in 2012?
I do agree that not booking the holiday when you book the holiday is crazy though...
Sorry - holidays are taken by mutual agreement. Having holidays refused and going anyway is gross misconduct and would lead to her instant dismissal without a reference, I as an employer would not employ someone who had done that.
The employer may be being awkward however she / you are 100% in the wrong.
[i]Can we rename this thread to employee being an ass now?
[/i]
More like STWers being the arses.
Employers pay shite wages and expect to bloody own people's lives. Luckily I've never worked for anyone like that and sounds like you haven't either.
Sounds a bit like things I've heard about the NHS. Some people going off on "Stress" for months on end and the ones left behind to cover for them then aren't allowed any leave. Anyway, telling them to poke it sounds like the best result.
[i]If you've got children[/i]
They haven't.
I agree that, that much advance notice shouldn't normally pose a problem, but to take it as a given is also a bit inconsiderate, as it's not been approved.
Are there any other issues underlying or has it been denied for operational reasons?
For peolpe who aren't in the know, its impossible to get ferry to IOM TT unless you book 12 months in advance
I'm with Dezb, been on the receiving end of stupidity when it comes to taking holidays, I worked over a year never being able to take a Friday off because my boss was too scared to ask anyone to cover
You work because you have to, the least they can do is meet you half way
PP - every 5 years, you must have hit the monsoon in 2012?
Yup. We were fine in our MSR but there were lots in Tesco tents that weren't.
But to my mind they're being unreasonable here
PP - i can understand your frustration but equally (having been on the other side) the company's position. You have to balance business needs, others' wishes etc and sometimes you do have to piss someone off.
Tread carefully would be my advice.
IMO refusing leave being booked 6 months in advance, unless there are specific company rules about that time period, would be deemed unreasonable behaviour by the company if it was presented in say a tribunal for constructive dismissal.
First thing is she has to push them to refuse or approve the leave, don't just leave it hanging as a maybe, if they do refuse they do have to give a reasonable reason "we might be busy" would not be acceptable as reasonable.
I know this is a bit after the event but.......it might have been sensible to advise employer of holiday plans at time of booking - or before - even though their holiday booking system wasn't open yet for 2017; then confirm by either letter or email.
It wouldn't guarantee they would say 'yes' but it would definitely have made it made it much more likely than it now appears.
Whatever happened in previous years is irrelevant.
One thing is for sure - any employer who believes an employee is being arsey will quickly deliver a lesson; everything within the law but.....
If she wants to stay there, be pleasant and discuss amicably with employer.
If she isn't bothered, good luck with the job search.
OK. They make people on double her pay redundant because it saves them money. Then she ends up doing their jobs for half price. A few months back I had to beg her to leave work on time because they were taking the piss making her work overtime for free. The workload is too high for the pay, no doubt about that.
Becaus of the cutbacks there's nobody her boss trusts to cover for her, allegedly, even though she's found someone who's said they can and will do this. That's why they're being unreasonable.
They're screwing her and I don't like it, I guess anyone should feel the same about their wife, right?
And now they're screwing with me too.
Ignoring the holiday thing as they're right. They sound crap to work, sounds a bit like what I've heard of the private sector. Sounds like looking for a new job would be good. Don't forget to tell them during the interview about her booked holiday. Well maybe let her tell them rather than you.
Possibly her employer wants ridance of her sees it as a good way for her to efectively terminate her employment, perhaps ring the tt and ask them to delay the races because she cant get time off work, or hope the thing is cancelled .
To qualify what I said, as a manager, I'm happy to grant leave when it's operationally sensible, it means to me, I've got less leave to worry about planning in when it might cause more difficulty.. even with one day notice I'll grant it, if possible as it's one day or some days less I have to worry about covering later in the year.
I'm with Dezb, been on the receiving end of stupidity when it comes to taking holidays, I worked over a year never being able to take a Friday off because my boss was too scared to ask anyone to cover
You work because you have to, the least they can do is meet you half way
I do agree that not booking the holiday when you book the holiday is crazy though...
It's not possible. She can't book until January and we had to book the ferry a year in advance. She's given 5 months notice. That's more then enough IMO. I left a job last year and one of the major reasons was their stance on holidays. I can put up with all sorts of crap, but mess with my time off and I'm gone.
They're screwing her and I don't like it, I guess anyone should feel the same about their wife, right?
😯 damn straight!