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Wondering if someone could provide some guidance on an issue my sister is having. Whilst she goes through life being a bit of a drama magnet in general quite a few of the dramas aren't actually her doing, including this one.
She's a company director, company doing well, she's ordered a Porsche Taycan 4S. Took delivery in March, enjoyed it for ~4 weeks and then in April got stranded at a conference in London when it refused to charge up. Called up the lease company who spoke to Porsche who sent an AA man who proceeded to brick the entire car. Car lifted onto a truck and taken to the local Porsche dealer who told her it would be a 3-5 day job to sort out - apparently a "common issue" with the Taycan - and the lease company arranged a Volvo hire car. Almost zero contact other than to moan about having to fix a car bought/leased from someone other than them and 5 weeks later it's just been delivered back to her in exactly the same state, with the added bonus of now registering as stolen with the tracker company and so is extra super disabled. It appears Porsche down south have done effectively nothing with the car while they've had it and the car is now (hopefully) off to Porsche up north for further investigation. In the meantime the lease company are refusing to either a) cancel the lease or b) reduce/refund the (significant) difference between Porsche lease price and Volvo lease price. My sister is an exceptionally busy person with numerous business and personal commitments so I've said I'll look into this for her. I'm pretty sure there's a contract not being adhered to here but not entirely sure where to start, other than getting her to send me the contract she has with the hire company.
I seem to remember someone here having an issue with leasing cars from Ling so thought I'd ask to see if there was a direction I should be heading based on that experience.
Company directors get their tame lawyer on to this stuff.
Get it to Porsche Reading (which is where Porsche U.K. are based) and kick up a fuss
Company directors get their tame lawyer on to this stuff.
It's not a multinational conglomerate. <20 employees I think and all the legal stuff, HR, payroll, etc. is contracted out as far as I'm aware. I'll ask her if they have a solicitor on retainer though.
Get it to Porsche Reading (which is where Porsche U.K. are based) and kick up a fuss
That would require Porsche Reading to uplift from Sheffield. It's entirely immobilised at the moment. I'll let her know where to complain about the Porsche dealer down south though.
Will they not just direct her back to the lease company though as that's ultimately who she has the contract with?
Has she spoken to Porsche customer services ?
Is she on a fully maintained contract ?
when ever I’ve had personal lease cars I’ve had to sort any issues with the manufacturer
I had an issue with my lease car that took 2 weeks to fix. I took it straight to the main dealer, as I was responsible for maintenance, and dealt with them directly. Not sure that my lease company even knew.
As I'd expect they gave me a courtesy car then when it became a long one they hired us a car. I wasn't going to whinge about the fact it was a different type of car, I'm not that precious, but I did consider asking them to compensate us for the extra £150 or so we had to spend on diesel over electricity. Didn't bother in the end because I couldn't face the hassle.
I’m pretty sure there’s a contract not being adhered to here
What, specifically?
The lease compsny may argue that the faulty car is a Porche issue. They have sorted out a replacement car. Now up to Porche to fix the broken car.
In the meantime having to drive a Volvo instead of a Porche isn't the end of the world. Is there likely to be a lot of Porche Taycan cars sitting about to be handed out as courtesy cars?
As the lease company didn't break the Porche they may not see why any difference between the Volvo and Porche lease costs is their problem.
Perhaps use the Consumer Rights Act against the leasing company, especially if the first fault was within 30 days. The contract is with the leasing company. They should be sorting things out because essentially the product/service provided has never been satisfactory.
Porsche/Audi/VW/Seat whatever. Just get on Instagram/twitter/YouTube and it’ll be sorted. Maybe.
I’m surprised that an established company with the heritage of Porsche would have such problems with an EV.
No way would your ‘sister’ be better off with a higher performance car from an American upstart motor company.
You're leasing it, it's still yours for the duration even if it's not working currently. The lease contract simply guarantees a car, I don't think it is ever going to guarantee that it works at all times. For that you'd need to be long term hiring or doing one of those subscription jobs.
The contract is with the leasing company.
And it's the wording in that that matters. I bet you £1 that it doesn't guarantee access to that specific model of car at all times.
Our neighbours terminated a lease because the car that arrived was filthy and not in suitable state, it was supposed to be a new car.
The lease contract simply guarantees a car, I don’t think it is ever going to guarantee that it works at all times.
With reference to the Consumer Rights Act, if it failed in the first 30 days then the OP's sister can say it was not of satisfactory quality and is entitled to a full refund. It fails within the first 6 months, then the supplier (which is the lease company) has one opportunity to fix it. If this fails the you can get a full refund.
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act-aKJYx8n5KiSl
I don't think the lease company has a leg to stand on. They need to provide another car that's equivalent to the borked Porsche, fix the Porsche quickly or offer a refund/compensation and termination of the contract.
Also, fixing the Porsche should not be the OP's sister's concern.
Ah, wait... is this business to business? Consumer Rights Act doesn't apply there. Who's actually taken out the lease? Your sister or your sister's business?
Sounds like it should be the lease companies problem no? It's their car and their commitment to your very import, busy sister is to supply a working vehicle for her use...
Just tell the lease company you'll be withholding payment as they haven't supplied a working vehicle...
It's a company car scheme where company provides up to £x/month and employee uses that to lease a car. She pays BIK but I'm not sure if that makes it company to company lease, I'm not 100% how this stuff works because I've never had a company car. The Consumer Rights Act stuff that @dmorts mentions is what I was thinking. Just outside 30 days for the fault but definitely <6 months. The contract is with the leasing company so I'd expect them to be sorting: If I hire a Golf from Enterprise and the ECU shits itself and the immobiliser renders it useless I'm not going to take it to the nearest VW garage, I'm going to call Enterprise.
No way would your ‘sister’
What an odd thing to be suspicious of... she's definitely my sister 😆
It surprises me that in situations like this large companies need reminding of their contracts and the loss of good will and reputation at stake.
I understand things go wrong but they do rarely get handled brilliantly. (I suppose we don’t always hear those stories)
Great opportunity to give great customer backup and service in the OP’s sisters case.
I’m sure that Porsche UK have/will make a good sum from this lease deal with servicing over the term, the lease co will do well from the monthly and residual. Step up to the plate and treat the customer like you want them to get another car!
I think the usual course of action here is to settle for £500 plus VAT
It’s a lease via salary sacrifice. What does the contract say about courtesy car provision in this situation? That’s all that matters as this is what your sister has signed up and agreed to. Go away, read it and decide what the breach is and go from there.
Everything else is speculation.
Had a further think about this.
Sounds like Porsche have moved the car from down south to up north, which sounds reasonable to me. (Not sure we are getting the full story)
When my lease cars have been in for a service the dealer have provided courtesy cars, which has then been charged to the lease company (fully maintained contracts)
I've done personal leases for the last half dozen or so cars I've had. I wouldn't expect the lease company to do anything except take the car away at the end of the lease period.
What I don't understand is why you've got a brand new Porsche which doesn't work and isn't just being fixed by Porsche under warranty? That's where the fault is to me.
I wouldn’t expect the lease company to do anything except take the car away at the end of the lease period.
Reading a few lease providers' guides on what to do with a faulty car could make you think that you have to sort it with the car manufacturer yourself. This might be the best course of action if it's a minor issue instead of cancelling lease and waiting for another car. Ultimately though for persistent issues you could have recourse against the lease provider under the Consumer Rights Act (if it's a personal lease)
Google
"BVRLA Guide to Consumer Rights" and there's a PDF with it all in
Sounds like Porsche have moved the car from down south to up north, which sounds reasonable to me. (Not sure we are getting the full story)
Porsche down south have delivered the "fixed" car directly to my sister's home address after having it for 5 weeks. Car is still in the bricked state with the added bonus of now identifying as stolen according to some app my sister has, and confirmed by the tracker company. My sister has called Porsche Sheffield based on the garbage customer service she got from Porsche down south in the hope that the Sheffield dealership are better. That's the entire story as far as I've been told.
My point with the lease company is surely my sister can't be expected to be on the hook for repair of a 6 week old £100k car. She has a contract with a lease company for the supply of a particular car - it could be a Reliant Kitten for all it matters - and the car they have supplied is completely unusable not even 2 months after delivery. The lease company are expecting her to carry on paying the lease rates for a car she cannot use and is clearly unfit for purpose - this is based on a) the car being bricked and b) Porsche down south telling her this is a common issue on the Taycan. How many of us here would be happy to just suck up that situation with a shrug of the shoulders and an "oh well, them's the breaks" as what I imagine to be an astronomical monthly fee leaves the current account every month?
Quite a lot of businesses do just have to suck up things like this, as recourse requires legal action. If it was a personal lease I wouldn't tolerate it at all and would be exercising my rights under the Consumer Rights Act (which isn't an option for businesses).
Scanned through this & tbh sounds like you need more details from your sister.
It’s unclear (to me) if this is a personal lease undertaken by your sister or if this is a salary sacrifice where her Ltd company has undertaken a business to business lease.
I suspect the latter which is a much different situation.
I’d suggest as great as the community is here you’d be better served clarifying as much details as you can & then posting over on pistonheads in speed, plod & the law or car buying sub forums asking for some guidance.
Hang on, you are definitely trolling here OP.
I just don't buy it, a "director" leases a £100k vehicle as their company car, stuff goes tits up with it and rather than raise hell themselves they delegate the issue to their brother who apparently knows nothing about car leasing?
It really doesn't wash.
Neither of my sisters are directors, both however are pretty intelligent and they would never delegate something like this to me (quite rightly too)...
A colleague of mine had endless problems with an Audi e-Tron (back in ore covid days) Audi were covering the cost of the lease whilst it was with them and providing a q7 FOC
what I don’t understand is why is the car back with your sister? I can’t imagine a situation where a dealer just gives up and loads a broken car back onto a transporter and delivers it to a customer as there’s clearly no way that ends well. Has there been a degree of flouncing here?
I do think you'll need to get some more detail from your sister before a course of action can be decided, but as cookeaa says give Pistonheads a try.
There is a general leasing thread here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=255&t=1856732&p=71
Or you could post a new thread in the general Car Buying forum.
It will also be worth having a read through the Porsche EV threads to see how common these problems are as I'm sure there will be people who have gone through the same problems from Porsche and leasing companies.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/forum.asp?h=0&f=275
Only sensible thing to do first is to get the contract and read it.
Of course, the alternative approach that seems to be applied nowadays is to publicly contact the MD via twitter.
And nobody has asked for pictures of the sister yet? This place is growing up!🤣
If I hire a Golf from Enterprise and the ECU shits itself and the immobiliser renders it useless I’m not going to take it to the nearest VW garage, I’m going to call Enterprise.
The terms and conditions of a hire agreement are not the same as those of a lease.
surely my sister can’t be expected to be on the hook for repair of a 6 week old £100k car.
No. It's Porche on the hook as they provide the new car warranty. It may be the she has to wait a few weeks for Porche to repair or replace. Until then (shock horror) she may just need to suffer driving a Volvo.
Has there been a degree of flouncing here?
See my original comment about drama magnet... We've no idea why it's been delivered back to her either. And flouncing or not (knowing my sister there has probably been a degree of flouncing) the car is broken: you don't just quit trying to fix it and deliver it back to the customer in an unusable state.
Definitely no trolling @cookeaa. She's a highly strung individual with multiple ongoing things that need her attention at the moment. I'm being a good big brother and trying to alleviate as much stress as I can from her. And yes she's an actual director and not a "director", whatever that's meant to imply. Why such unwillingness to take things at face value?
Btw, all this stuff is part of reason why I left Sheffield and moved to Scotland when it was suggested I join the company... 😅
Only sensible thing to do first is to get the contract and read it.
This. RTFM! And then call the leasing company (if they will speak to you), and then calmly and nicely ask them what's going on. This won't be the first time it's happened.
Probably there is a clause in the contract that says they can provide you with e.g. a reasonable subsititute. Then you're having a disagreement about whether the Volvo is or isn't a reasonable substitute - fine.
So just asked her, it's a lease to her company with no salary sacrifice involved. She only pays BIK.
I don't think she's such a snob that driving a Volvo offends her. She's just feeling aggrieved that she's driving a Volvo while being charged Porsche money.
Has she sent you the contract yet?
I don’t think she’s such a snob that driving a Volvo offends her. She’s just feeling aggrieved that she’s driving a Volvo while being charged Porsche money.
This answer to that is, 'it depends' there are a few factors outside of purchase price that dictate the lease cost. sometimes the differences aren't that great when they are factored in.
She's sending tomorrow when she's back in the office
This answer to that is, ‘it depends’ there are a few factors outside of purchase price that dictate the lease cost.
A quick look at a business lease website suggests the Taycan is 295% more expensive than the XC60, with a net difference of £842/month between the two. Worth questioning in my book.
Friend in the village has Taycan and spends more time in the Porsche demo and courtesy fleet than his own car. Issues and parts delays. The 911's are nice, but not comfortable for his 3 lanky lads.
I'm interested to see where this goes, but someone somewhere owns this car and have a warranty for Porsche to service.
Spare parts might be the rub tho' - as well as the id table reliability. If I want a new Mg/Tesla/Kia/Polestar/Hyundai.. I can get one in weeks or few months. New Audi or VW group,,,, May next year
It is a fascinating thread. I’m not a lease kind of person. But I’d assumed it would make things easier if the vehicle went wrong
I reasonably sympathetic to the OP and sister. Particularly the bricked car being returned
Not wanting to come over as sexist but are you sure that the car is not functional and the issues are not related to how to operate the vehicle? My main vehicle is an 07 plate S-Max and on the rare occasions I drive a modern car - normally hired for a work job - I often have to spend quite a while getting my head around how everything works. This is probably not the case but I am struggling with the concept of the car being returned in a non-operational state as surely there must be tests to be ticked off as part of the repair process.
I’m not a lease kind of person. But I’d assumed it would make things easier if the vehicle went wrong
It doesn't make a difference. You can opt to have maintenance as part of the lease, or pay for your own. But when it breaks down the result is the same, either you take it to the main dealer under warranty or the lease company tells you to take it to the main dealer.
You're leasing a car, not subscribing to a service with availability terms. You still have the car regardless of whether or not it's working. The warranty provider (i.e. Porsche) pro ably have a clause in their warranty T&C's offering a replacement car.
Ive got a work ev lease through Tusker Salary Sacrifice. You get to select what kind of replacement you want and its priced accordingly.