Grumm, whilst I agree with some of what you have said I've still yet to read any viable alternatives. Most kids are just pushing the boundries but some are real evil ****ers. Witness the lads who kicked the guy to death in Warrington last year. Really can't see them responding to a deep chat over tea and biscuits can you? They repeatedly kicked him the head whilst he was unconcious. Evil, plain simple.
Maybe it was too late for them, and for some people. Not saying violence shouldn't be used as a last resort, but it seems some people are a bit too eager to enact their violent fantasies and it wasn't really a last resort.
I don't believe in the concept of 'evil' as such.
the last time this happened, my mate belted the nearest one and it all kicked off.despite feeling that we were seriously outnumbered, the next thing i know two of them are trying to carry their mate away (out cold) screaming and crying that they are only kids. One of them then had his nose moved across his face.
learn it the hard way or not at all.
Bet you felt really proud. Did they call you names?
not twice.
you a parent grumm?
"[i]it seems some people are a bit too eager to enact their violent fantasies and it wasn't really a last resort.[/i]"
Short, sharp shock. It sometimes works.
The last time I had anything to do with this sort of bollocks was on a train in Waterloo station. An older chap had asked two kids (I think they were 13 and 15 they said) to get their feet off the seats and stop cussing. They were both pissed on Stella, cans in hand and were immediately in his face screaming for a fight and accusing him of "picking on children". I got in between them and him and told them to sit down and cool it off, but they were well and truly pissed, as far as I could tell deeply stupid and didn't seem to know where to go next. It took a while, but involved no violence and I was very scared throughout. 🙂
I feel pretty sorry for people trying to operate with such short fuses, such fragile self-respect and so little about them enabling them to earn or deserve anyone's respect. 😕
Should have smacked them in the face.
The problem that I see is that the kids are being born to parent / s who just dont give a toss. 2nd to 3rd generation scum. These kids have absolutly no chance in life when they have parents like that. I agree that the best way to nip this in the bud is to bring them up properly, but they are being "raised" by some real low life.
I look at some of the estates around near where I live, and I really do despair.
I always thought that if the parents wont impose discipline, then the kids must be taught it by the state. I know I will sound like my Dad here, but put them in the army. Let the army force discipline onto them. Cost may be astronomical but I'm sure it would be offset by the reduction in crime and the policing needed.
The problem that I see is that the kids are being born to parent / s who just dont give a toss.
Nail on head - kids having kids when they don't even have the maturity to look after themselves properly.
I think the answer is to beat more kids up, that'll sort it.
Yeah, if you hit them hard/repeatedly enough in the danglies you'll render them infertile, thus solving the problem for future generations.
I think the answer is to beat more kids up, that'll sort it.
Extending it to the absurd again grumm, it doesnt help your argument - you were sounding rational until then!
You suggest that it is down to parenting - I agree entirely. But how do you now deal with the product of bad parenting? Its all well and good saying how people should be taught to be better parents but it's too late for 2 or so generations now. Even for some adults who seem to have lost the sense of right and wrong. Now even if we all started parenting perfectly, we still have the legacy of a large number of morons with no respect. Sometimes extreme reactions are necessary to make a point.
Those who suggest ignoring/calling the police - try living with them daily harrassing you with no comeback from the law, breaking your property just because they're drunk or its funny to them. It makes life a living hell for LOT of people who just want to come home at night and relax.
As for your comments about society in general disliking/distrusting kids - it always has; as older family members tell me kids were always a bit of a pain and thought of as trouble right back to the 30s, it just has more justification now, and instead of a "little trouble" a lot of them are DANGEROUS when they get into a mob mentality. Not all kids are a pain, but the numbers are high and increasing!
I suspect national service would be a good idea in a lot of cases. As a good kid, I'd have hated it initially, but I think it could have been beneficial in some ways.
OMG just listen to yourselves.
STW really has gone a step too far today
So long as hopeless, or non-existent parenting exists, this problem will proliferate. Unfortunately there are the offspring of the offspring of neglected wayward children out there. Several generations of people who have no idea how to behave! The fair and openminded society we now live in allows this to happendd ("who is anybody to judge how other people should live" I hear the PC brigade cry). The problem is that such leniency for one group makes those that do toe the line a little peeved. It's patently unfair on the rest of the population. We need a someone with a social responsibility and the balls to do somthing about it - not just vent hot air.
I maintain that you have to shut it out and stay calm! Getting steamed up raises your blood pressure and if you make being angry a habit, it will damage your health.
OMG just listen to yourselves.STW really has gone a step too far today
the next thing i know two of them are trying to carry their mate away (out cold) screaming and crying that they are only kids. One of them then had his nose moved across his face.
Listen to you - you sound like a psycho tbh.
The fair and openminded society we now live in
Hah. Read the Daily Mail lately?
Isn't that a gay newspaper? 😆Hah. Read the Daily Mail lately?
a 32 year old bloke ****ting a 15 year old kid seems a bit wrong!
Shouldn't that read, a society where a 15 year old feels that abusing a 32 year old with impunity is acceptable behaviour, seems a bit wrong surely?
I was a total shite when I was a ween. Right up until a neighbour stopped me for riding my bike on the path, he asked me what I thought I was doing, I told him minding my own business. The next thing I remember is picking myself up off the floor as he walked off up the road.
Do you know what? I was really careful about who I was gobby to after that, and in a way it helped me to realise a few home truths that needed realising.
G, did it teach you that if you see someone doing something you don't agree with, then it's ok to punch them?
Bring back National Service. Seriously.
i see the teenage mutant ****ing armchair ninjas turtles are out in force today, walking away take more guts,self control and bravery than turning round and ****ing a drunk teenager and as for the wild assumtion that they are all tooled up to the nines that is just mad most teenage do not go round with knives that is just good old media overblown hype, i except that in the big cities that you are more likly to meet a kid with a knife but he is just as scared as you and unlikly to use it until big brave have a go hero goes and gets in his face(ie what the **** did you just say) and just the same as you don't like people disrespecting you neither does he only diffrence is his life skill's are not as developed as yours and so he reacts without thinking,where if you walk past with confidence and head held high he will more than likly call you a few names (sticks and stones and all that) and go on his merry way and you do to.
RP.
No, it teaches those who experience that sort of thing (ref G's note), to look at themselves and stop being such a pain in the arse to all around them. Its a good lesson to learn, and some need it to be delivered in such a fashion, unfortunately.
Its taken a while, but I've read this thread now and I have to ask, is there anyone here who is saying its acceptable for teenage gangs to hastle/intimidate others, in any way ?.
Cos if the answer is no, and if you're getting hastled, at that moment when you receive threats of violence or abuse, just who is in the wrong, and what options does the victim have ?.
Running away can be just a dangerous as standing and still not allow you to avoid violence.
Seems to me that if these children are intent on picking on people, then like so many things in life, its at their own risk.
I'm not aware of groups of people going round handing out free booze to children and ordering them to stir it up with whomever passes them by.
These children choose to do what they do and so deserve whatever they get in the way of a whack. Its not rocket science is it ?, don't threaten and abuse people and their property, and you won't get beat, or as I'd prefer, arrested.
I'm just sorry that Fred the OAP or Johnny the dog walker who may have to resort to running away, or violence just to protect themselves, when all they wanted was a pint of milk from the corner shop, or to walk the family pet.
These gangs of children are a tyranny of our streets and it shouldn't be left to Johnny dog walker to [i]sort it[/i]. imo.
So, what is the answer. I've read remarks by others deriding those who have resorted to violence to protect themselves. But ask those contributers to tell us just what should we do when we find ourselves in that moment, a situation, where youths are shouting at and spitting on you, making you fear for your safety. Just what do you suggest.
Solo.
i see the teenage mutant ****ing armchair ninjas turtles are out in force today, walking away take more guts,self control and bravery than turning round and ****ing a drunk teenager and as for the wild assumtion that they are all tooled up to the nines that is just mad most teenage do not go round with knives that is just good old media overblown hype, i except that in the big cities that you are more likly to meet a kid with a knife but he is just as scared as you and unlikly to use it until big brave have a go hero goes and gets in his face(ie what the **** did you just say) and just the same as you don't like people disrespecting you neither does he only diffrence is his life skill's are not as developed as yours and so he reacts without thinking,where if you walk past with confidence and head held high he will more than likly call you a few names (sticks and stones and all that) and go on his merry way and you do to.
and.....BREATHE.... Whatever happened to punctuation?!
Regardless, we were not talking about situation where you can just walk away, we are talking about someone being chased for no reason by a gang of people. They may have asked what the original kid said, but thats hardly a reason to initiate an attack now is it? Or did you jump in part way through and assume we were all talking about beating up kids for looking at us wrong? 😆
I watched a film called Eden Lake the other day, about a couple out camping in the country side when some chavs decide to harass them a bit, the guy asks them to leave off and it all goes horribly wrong and the couple end up dead. It seemed so far fetched but at the same time your watching it thinking this sort of thing does happen at times.
While i probably wouldn't square up to any of these little thugs on the off chance they are carrying something I say well done to anyone that teaches them a lesson.
Rich Penny : My personal outlook is that kids need a clearly defined set of boundaries from which to operate. That gives them confidence and a sense of security in how they relate to the world around them. Unfortunately, for reasons that totally escape me many parents don't provide that for themselves, let alone their kids, so whats your suggestion as the way forward pray tell? I believe allowing them to run wild has been proven as unsuccessful over a very lengthy trial period.
In the meantime I'll go my own sweet way neither looking to receive nor deliver violence, but perfectly prepared to stand my ground should I consider it appropriate in the circumstances in which I find myself at any given moment.
PS: The last time I took the path of non violence was when one of my employees decided to attack me. Given the fact that there were no witnesses and that he was twice my size, half my age, and had served time for assault on a previous employer, I decided that my best option was to get somewhere where it could be seen. Rather than run I walked (manly pride). All the time he was hitting me with such violence he actually broke bones in his hand. The upshot? I was arrested for assault. When he eventually admitted that I was covered in bruises had a broken nose, concussion and no marks whatosever on my hands whilst he had a broken hand, and no other injuries of any description he did see the flaw in the argument that I attacked him and then pleaded guilty to ABH, Theft and Deception, (which was not telling me that he had a criminal record, which was, incidentally for repeated instances as above). He was sent to Crown Court. The sentence? A conditional discharge. From that time forth I have no faith whatsoever in the legal process and I have promised myself that that was the last time I would ever turn the other cheek.
You of course are free to make your own choices.
G.
After reading that, I for one wouldn't blame you for taking a different course of action, if there ever was a next time.
What is going through the tiny minds of magistrates who let this sort of thing slide. The injuries you suffered were in no way reflected in his sentence. All wrong.
Now I'm thinking, theres two elements to this.
Theres the "Teaching some thug a lesson" and theres the "having to defend yourself" by using violence, only just to stop the person attacking you.
Still, I just wish we could all go about our daily business without the seemingly constant threat these days of groups of yoofs on the street who might at any moment turn on you.
Makes me wonder what the streets of this nation will be like in ten years time...
Solo.
I think its very much a uk thing too, the gangs of youths on the street corner type thing that is. I can't really say i've noticed it in vancouver and surrounding area so much, there is some proper gang violence here but they keep to themselves, i've very rarely seen any menacing looking kids loitering anywhere.
Doubt it, it happens most large urban areas so perhaps you just live in a nice area of Vancouver!
zero tolerance, 1st offence send them to a complete shit hole and scare the crap out of them -then counsel them and try to bring them round.
At the moment there are no consequences in law, they get discharges and away days to 'build their confidence'.
If they get PUNISHED hard when they are at petty crime level they will be discouraged from moving up the crime career ladder.
Or national service on 1st offence
We should not have to put up with this kind of shit.
Sadly, imagine how empowered these kids would have felt after chasing off a grown-up.
What happens when the next person cant run away? That's the scary thing.
National service is a very very good idea. I might sound old fashioned when I say that also sometimes (and I mean only sometimes) one parent families are no help either. Stability of the family home, no solid father role model to learn peer respect and genuine confidence.
I dont actually condone violence to little sh*ts. I walked through a bunch of them the other night, they were taking up the whole pavement. Why should I, a working citizen who pays his taxes and bills, move to the road to go around them only to get heckled about it? Im sorry, but sod that for sh*ts and giggles. Im not tough, I dont try to be. Ive had one fight with older teenagers that at the time were probably not much younger than me. They walked off after they realised I wasent going to sit down and take it. I didnt start it, and I didnt throw the first hit, but I ended it without much violence. Sometimes, if you are in situation that seems unresolvable Id rather throw the first punch and go from there. I would say thats going to give you a better chance than getting jumped on if you dont do anything. Thats not to say I have a short temper or I condone lashing out at people. It takes alot to wind me up, but as I am only 23 I dont speak with the age and responsibility some of you as parents do but I have respect for my elders, my peers, my teachers. I know my place, and I was brought up in a decent loving family so I agree that its the parents fault.
Alot of kids are misunderstood, but given the situations mentioned on here I wouldnt have done any differently.
EDIT: Solo, I agree totally.
G, I believe there was a thread on here recently where someone was pushed off their bike because he was on a footpath. To me, the objector could have voiced his objections forcefully without violence. You seem like a sensible guy, someone with less intelligence may not have learnt the same lessons from violence that you have. They could learn, for example, that applied violence puts you in a position of power (which it does). I wouldn't want to teach anyone that.
Personally, I try to avoid violence. Managing pretty sucessfully so far as I can tell. I completely accept that there are situations where it's unavoidable, but a lot of the time you have a choice IME. Been in plenty of situations where people wanted a piece of me but managed to defuse them.
I find it odd that people think it's impossible to walk away. The OP does exactly that. I KNOW it's annoying to think you have been controlled by a group of pissed up kids, but look at it like this: They want you to play their stupid little games, just make it obvious that you've got better things to do.
dooge-you sound like a well sorted kid, congrats to you and your parents.
In my experience most of the lairy kids are just trying to be 'big', show off or what ever you call it, squareing up to them, getting in their faces and generally taking the agression to them makes them back down.
Trying to speak to these street kids is a total waste of time, they are the spawn of street kids , who are the spawn of street kids etc etc.There will be decent kids on every estate, but theyll find the youth club, footy team or whatever.
So, Im not willing to be abused by a bunch of kids as I minding my own busines, and if that means attacking a 15 year old, then yes Im willing todo it just as the little sh1thouse is willing to attack me, Ive even punched a girl-pissed as a rat on cider who give me a load of verbal and told ne she was going to "rip my head off" I warned her off, then when she moved on me, flattend her. No regrets.
If we let these chavs dictate to us, weve lost any quality of life
pmsl! 😆
(@ the thread!)
We have a bit of a Friday night problem with pi$$ed kids around where we live. I had one lot knocking on the door then acting up. First time my wife answered and told them to go away. Second time, I answered and went out to talk to them - they just got leary so we called the cops and they left. Third time I went out with a camera with a very big flash gun and started taking their pictures - they all ran off so I followed them and called the cops on the mobile as I chased them (which they saw/heard me doing). One came back and explained that he was "just with them" and didn't want any trouble - he also told me his name and the name of the (girl!) ringleader. Armed with my pics the cops followed up my problem and the reports of some others who had had similar trouble and touch wood it hasn't happened since. Admittedly, our standard of youth isn't particularly hard, but I think these kids rely on anonymity and as soon as you take that away from them, they suddenly become a bit less scary and a bit better behaved. I make a point of saying "hello Tom" whenever I see the one I know around town - not to be sociable, but to remind him that I will be on his case if I see him out of line.
Walk softly, but carry a big stick is the philosophy.
If I had a modicum of protection within the law then I'd happily dispense with the stick. No desire whatsoever to have a ruck, and walking away was what I did in the scenario described above.
Thanks Colnagokid. I didnt want to seem like Im blowing my own trumpet, but I am happy that I am more levelheaded than some.
Its the lack of reason that stumps me. Regardless of whether its mis-guided towards the wrong individuals, most are not bad kids but get mixed up with the wrong people. Mix alcohol, peer pressure and boredom and it causes problems. I had that in mind when I mentioned above that if you have to resort to violence, always go for the one at the front. Undoubtedly the mixed up ones will always be at the back of the pack.
Its weird how it differs between groups too. My old mates used to get so many bruises and cuts from violently moshing down at the local rock club. One of them had concussion from bouncing his head off someones elbow but I dont think Ive ever seen an alternative person hassling someone in the street for the sake of it.
[img] 
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Yep thats the one 😉
What were you walking? a poodle?
Man's best friend did **** all for you.
Should have been walking this:
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Not this:
[img] 
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They were just playing with you. I would have ignored them and called the cops after they walked away.
If you run, keep running and stop and run towards and get ready to open a can of whoop ass.
If they had knives, well maybe you did the right thing and there were a few of them.
Problem is if you take their pic and/or get one over on them in a way that leaves them annoyed but not scared, they just come back at night and do your house/garden/car over.