[Closed] effin drunk kids!!!!!

Well done Barnsleymitch.
Unfortunately, there are the tw@s in this world who only understand this type of recourse. They grow up causing misery to the local residents because the grumms of this world let them be and suffer their thuggish ways, yet when someone gives them a taste af their own medicine a whole raft of wishy-washy limpwristers tells you to turn the other cheek.
Why? So they can slap your other cheek too whilst laughing at you and planning their next attack?
Keep up the probation officer speak, grumm, but some of us live in the real world.

I and a few locals to my old place have a bit of experience with drunken teens roaming the streets damaging thigns and intimidating people. Invariably the legal and "sensible" ways do nothing at all unfortunately, and calling the police certainly seems to store up hatred and a grudge. Not running, not looking scared and if necessary picking the largest and flattening them is about the best solution - they tend not to come back. This is an opinion that upsets a lot of people but it is borne out of experience with kids who simply dont listen to reason, the police or their parents. And its remarkably easy (if not shamefully so) to deck even a big chap who's drunk when you're sober.

My Mates brother went of the rails when he was in his late teens and got into drugs. His mum found a load hidden in his bedroom and his Dad flushed them down the toilet. Luckily he was an ex para and someone you wouldn't mess with. The drug dealer came round for his drugs and as the Dad opened the front door he put the drug dealer on the floor with one punch before he could do or say anything. Later he came back with loads of his mates. The Dad went outside, walked up to the biggest lad who was there and put him on the floor again with one punch. He then turned to the drug dealer and all the mates and said 'who's next', they all legged off and the lad on the floor eventually got up and legged it as well. They never got ANY more trouble after that. Although I don't condone violence, sometimes these thuggish youths only understand violence!!

There was a time when the police wouldn't think twice about giving these youths a quick wack and send them on their way. I sometimes think those times are needed again.

coffeeking i know what yoiur saying but a 32 year old bloke ****ting a 15 year old kid seems a bit wrong!!

My Mates brother went of the rails when he was in his late teens and got into drugs. His mum found a load hidden in his bedroom and his Dad flushed them down the toilet. Luckily he was an ex para and someone you wouldn't mess with. The drug dealer came round for his drugs and as the Dad opened the front door he put the drug dealer on the floor with one punch before he could do or say anything. Later he came back with loads of his mates. The Dad went outside, walked up to the biggest lad who was there and put him on the floor again with one punch. He then turned to the drug dealer and all the mates and said 'who's next', they all legged off and the lad on the floor eventually got up and legged it as well. They never got ANY more trouble after that. Although I don't condone violence, sometimes these thuggish youths only understand violence!!

There was a time when the police wouldn't think twice about giving these youths a quick wack and send them on their way. I sometimes think those times are needed again.

coffeeking i know what yoiur saying but a 32 year old bloke ****ting a 15 year old kid seems a bit wrong!!

I'm not saying violence is always the answer, you have to assess the situation, but when put in a situation where you are intimidated and being "approached" by a group, turning and scurrying away isn't always the best answer. Likewise lamping a 15 year old for being a bit mouthy is not a good idea either. Hopefully adults are capable of deciding the tipping point! I can remember countless occurences to back up the argument, but they are all anecdotal so not worth the LCD screen they're printed on, but I know a few women in my old area who had lots of trouble but who eventually stood up for themselves (after some training) and were left alone from that point on. A close relative of mine once caught someone trying to undo the handbrake on the very large trailer parked on the drive, it would have careered through the house if released as they had moved the bricks. The relative was initially abused and yelled at when he asked them to F off, so he grabbed the biggest lad, pinned him against the side of the trailer with his feet swinging off the ground and punched the trailer next to the lads face - put him back on the ground and the chaps ran off. The next day it was famous with the scallies, I had numerous people approaching saying "your XYZ was after blood, he's a psycho" and they never had a peep of trouble after that.

But then that chap was killed just a couple of towns over from me for moving kids on who were damaging his car so it's obviously not the best option all the time.

Coffeeking, I was not advocating decking every fifteen year-old. Mouthy ones can be just that;- mouthy.
I was refering to the intimidating ones in gangs, the type that make decent folk feel uncomfortable when going to the local shops.

Deck 'em while they're young

Amazing.

That was not meant to sound as silly as it did, grumm.
Bad choice of words on my behalf.

Grumm whats more amazing is that you seem to think it's fine for snotty 15 year olds to shout and attack people, then break peoples property. People should not have to put up with this.

Grumm whats more amazing is that you seem to think it's fine for snotty 15 year olds to shout and attack people

Really, where did I say this?

If you just talk to them then thats whats going to happen, they don't listen to you or the police.

OH dear! This sort of thing really does bring out the "armchair ninja" in some people! I know how mad angry these little gits can make you feel. We are not allowed to take the law into our own hands, but the perpetrators just laugh in the face of the law (i've witnessed this myself). The police are equally powerless and the kids have no respect or fear of authority. If you put "numpty's" lights out, then the weight of the law comes down on their side. All of a sudden you are the criminal. In the "red mist" moment you could kill someone (they are lightweights and you are much much bigger than them - imagine the newspaper headlines etc!) ONLY USE VIOLENCE IN SELF-DEFENSE as a last resort and make sure it is proportional (not easy when the adrenalin is flowing). Hopefully you can avoid violence by not doing anything that will inflame a situation.

These halfwits have only just discovered the effects of their bodies producing testosterone and are just establishing who the pack leader is. Their own little "MR BIG". It's pathetic! They are mostly all mouth and no trousers until they have a few cans of cheap lager inside them. They are cowards because they operate in large numbers and on "Dutch courage"! It takes self-control not to do them some serious damage - that is commendable.

Remember they also probably have knives which can take any person down in minutes, regardless of their victim's strength and ability to look after themselves.

We abandoned reason where juvenile misbehaviour is concerned probably a few decades ago. I bet there are one or two adults here that, if they cast their minds back, weren't perfect little angels when they were in their teens!

My experience is that after the event and for a certain period of time, you feel incandescent with rage about the injustice and knowledge that you could have obliterated these idiots if they hadn't been in any numbers etc. That you wished you'd done "this", or "that", but you didn't. Try and put this negative shit out of your mind - even if it seems so unfair. If you let it fester they will succeed in continuing to hurt you. That only makes things worse. Bear in mind that the vast majority of people are decent and are right behind you.

I'd definitely get on to the Police and tell them about the incident, even if they do nothing about it. If enough people come forward about this gang, there will be some action. Saying nothing lets them go on to harass other people. When and if they get caught assaulting someone and end up in court, all the other complaints could mean the difference between them getting off, or going to jail!

We always err on the side of leniency with juvenilles and first offenders. So this is all the more reason to flag it up. Make sure you are persistent with your complaint and get a crime reference number. make sure they make a statement - Police don't like crimes being reported. It makes them look like they aren't hitting their targets.

If you just talk to them then thats whats going to happen, they don't listen to you or the police.

I bet there are one or two adults here that, if they cast their minds back, weren't perfect little angels when they were teens!

Definitely. But never purposefully damaged property. Might have thrown a few insults at people, testing the ground as teens used to, but would never have attacked them or threatened them. Once or twice got collared for it and taken to my parents who were incandescent with rage at the shame I'd brought on them and occasionally if it was particularly bad I would have got a slap round the thighs enough to hurt fairly impressively but do no damage, and I never made that mistake again. I would have needed divine intervention if I had purposefully damaged something or intimidated someone.

In the end we are animals, while I agree positive reinforcement and "things to do" work well to tame dodgy kids, some are beyond that and ultimately I think on some level everyone wants to avoid a beating. However a world full of people beating each other up would be anarchy, so its a hard middle ground to plough. In the same vein as your oringinal comment, quoted above, when I was a kid there was nothing to do either, and alcohol was freely available, but we were not the nightmare you see today.

OMG! I did it again! A long ramble that nobody will bother to read! 🙁

A long ramble that nobody will bother to read!

That's not the point. As long as it's important [i]to you[/i], that's all that matters.

Well, that's the way I see it with some of the bollox I post on here.

LOL @ Spongebob.
I read it, actually 😀

I agree coffeeking, but we just have to step back and keep calm. I'm no different to anyone else here, it makes me angry that we have ferral gangs running a muck. Yes, the kids now are much bolder in their challenge to authority than 30 years ago, but i do remember a lot more random violence when I was young. Things like whole schools having pitched battles on the local common, or just random attacks on totally innocent people.

I'm sure violence in the home was much more prevalent then too. How many of the older people here got a cuff round the back of the head or a spanking for minor misdemeanors? It was acceptable in those days.

We are a lot softer on young people these days. I guess there is some frustration on our part that if [i]we[/i] had to endure this, why shouldn't they.

Who knows what the best way is to bring up a child, but sure enough, we need to go back to a much less lenient society. Teach right from wrong and make the consequences of disregarding the rules felt. No authority has the courage to do this for fear of a public outcry and the inevitable litigation. The result is that the tail continues to wag the dog, The only way to preserve your own health and sanity is to shut this out (my previous advice).

Thank you ernie_lynch, thank you trademark! I feel valued now!(even if I am wrong) 😉

We are a lot softer on young people these days. I guess there is some frustration on our part that if we had to endure this, why shouldn't they.

I dont think it has anything to do with "we should, why shouldnt they", its a case of
"we turned out well, it didnt harm us (for the most part, assuming we arent all randomly/excessively abused, though we would be by current definition) and it kept us in line without making us hate our parents and turn into violent killers, so why is it frowned on".

While we used to have whole-school fights as kids, they were not "serious", no-one would have continued kicking people when they were down, no-one would have used weapons and none of us would have used violence against our elders. I don't remember any other violence as a kid. I remember that even the violent kids respected their elders, mostly the ones they were scared of too. Maybe we were naive back then as kids, but we never questioned their authority when they asserted it with scare tactics, the ones that got walked all over were the ones that refused to shout and/or scare kids.

We are a lot softer on young people these days. I guess there is some frustration on our part that if we had to endure this, why shouldn't they.

Who knows what the best way is to bring up a child, but sure enough, we need to go back to a much less lenient society. Teach right from wrong and make the consequences of disregarding the rules felt.

In many other countries the age of criminal responsibility is much higher than here, yet most have less problems with teenage violence and anti-social behaviour.

I am all for teaching right from wrong and giving kids clear boundaries, just not that into the idea of beating them up.

the ones that got walked all over were the ones that refused to shout and/or scare kids.

.............While we used to have whole-school fights as kids, they were not "serious", no-one would have continued kicking people when they were down, no-one would have used weapons .............

Not at my school. Kicking people when they were down was a part of it and the occasional knife as well. glasgow in the 70s

Grumm, I don't want to appear to be heckling you but I think that we have grown up on different housing estates.
Mine was fairly tough, how was yours ?

TJ - yes that does throw a spanner in the thought-machine 😀

In many other countries the age of criminal responsibility is much higher than here, yet most have less problems with teenage violence and anti-social behaviour.

You can't really compare crime vs age of responsibility across countries without also comparing all the other driving and retarding factors and finding a country with the same level of all of them.

I am all for teaching right from wrong and giving kids clear boundaries, just not that into the idea of beating them up.

Assuming you want boundaries and right/wrong taught, how do you propose they are enforced, when in current form there is absolutely sod all an adult can do? The carrot method doesn't always work, especially not with teenagers.

Just to balance up the Para story above, a mate of mine got into an argument in the pub, and couldn't let it go. They took it outside to sort it out like men I suppose. He's dead now, because the other bloke had a knife and was prepared to use it.

I grew up in the countryside - but I have lived in some pretty dodgy areas of Leeds and I work in one of the most deprived boroughs in Lancashire.

Anyway - thought about this yet?

In many other countries the age of criminal responsibility is much higher than here, yet most have less problems with teenage violence and anti-social behaviour.

grumm - yes, see my reply above

Grumm, whilst I agree with some of what you have said I've still yet to read any viable alternatives. Most kids are just pushing the boundries but some are real evil ****ers. Witness the lads who kicked the guy to death in Warrington last year. Really can't see them responding to a deep chat over tea and biscuits can you? They repeatedly kicked him the head whilst he was unconcious. Evil, plain simple.

I'm sure that we all did things we'd rather not admit to but there is always a line. If we crossed it there was consequence. There doesn't seem to be now. I'm lucky, we've had very little trouble where I live and the times we have I've been able to talk it out. However if violence was the *only* option then I couldn't say I wouldn't use it.

The little shites should be drowned.

Assuming you want boundaries and right/wrong taught, how do you propose they are enforced, when in current form there is absolutely sod all an adult can do? The carrot method doesn't always work, especially not with teenagers.

If they were taught these things from a young enough age by their parents then it wouldn't be such a problem to try and teach them it as a teenager.

You can't really compare crime vs age of responsibility across countries without also comparing all the other driving and retarding factors and finding a country with the same level of all of them.

True to an extent but we have an extremely vindictive and unpleasant attitude towards young people in this country, as displayed in this thread.

I am all for teaching right from wrong and giving kids clear boundaries, just not that into the idea of beating them up.

Looking at my childrens's schools, the culture is very different from my day. Both schools are very good at pastoral care and in the main, the kids coming out of there are more mature and more rounded individuals than those in my day. They are also a lot more streetwise, aware of their rights and confident in dealing with their seniors.

Not wishing to be smug, but my two are pretty well behaved and we have never needed to raise a hand to them (I have NO idea why this has worked so far - REALLY - it must be solely down to their mother 😉 )

Leaving my little angels to one side, there are a few youngsters that are totally out of control. They haven't had the good fortune to be born into a stable home life etc etc, but they still need to have respect for others if they want me to sympathise with their plight. Many people grew up in poverty and never broke the law, so we need to be firm with them. Violence is out, detention is the way to go. Corrective counselling whilst in custody and continued mentauring on release. The victims should get the most support however.

OMG, I am rambling yet again!

the last time this happened, my mate belted the nearest one and it all kicked off.

despite feeling that we were seriously outnumbered, the next thing i know two of them are trying to carry their mate away (out cold) screaming and crying that they are only kids. One of them then had his nose moved across his face.

learn it the hard way or not at all.

Grumm, whilst I agree with some of what you have said I've still yet to read any viable alternatives. Most kids are just pushing the boundries but some are real evil ****ers. Witness the lads who kicked the guy to death in Warrington last year. Really can't see them responding to a deep chat over tea and biscuits can you? They repeatedly kicked him the head whilst he was unconcious. Evil, plain simple.

Maybe it was too late for them, and for some people. Not saying violence shouldn't be used as a last resort, but it seems some people are a bit too eager to enact their violent fantasies and it wasn't really a last resort.

I don't believe in the concept of 'evil' as such.

the last time this happened, my mate belted the nearest one and it all kicked off.

despite feeling that we were seriously outnumbered, the next thing i know two of them are trying to carry their mate away (out cold) screaming and crying that they are only kids. One of them then had his nose moved across his face.

learn it the hard way or not at all.

Bet you felt really proud. Did they call you names?

not twice.

you a parent grumm?

"[i]it seems some people are a bit too eager to enact their violent fantasies and it wasn't really a last resort.[/i]"

Short, sharp shock. It sometimes works.

The last time I had anything to do with this sort of bollocks was on a train in Waterloo station. An older chap had asked two kids (I think they were 13 and 15 they said) to get their feet off the seats and stop cussing. They were both pissed on Stella, cans in hand and were immediately in his face screaming for a fight and accusing him of "picking on children". I got in between them and him and told them to sit down and cool it off, but they were well and truly pissed, as far as I could tell deeply stupid and didn't seem to know where to go next. It took a while, but involved no violence and I was very scared throughout. 🙂

I feel pretty sorry for people trying to operate with such short fuses, such fragile self-respect and so little about them enabling them to earn or deserve anyone's respect. 😕

Should have smacked them in the face.

The problem that I see is that the kids are being born to parent / s who just dont give a toss. 2nd to 3rd generation scum. These kids have absolutly no chance in life when they have parents like that. I agree that the best way to nip this in the bud is to bring them up properly, but they are being "raised" by some real low life.

I look at some of the estates around near where I live, and I really do despair.

I always thought that if the parents wont impose discipline, then the kids must be taught it by the state. I know I will sound like my Dad here, but put them in the army. Let the army force discipline onto them. Cost may be astronomical but I'm sure it would be offset by the reduction in crime and the policing needed.

The problem that I see is that the kids are being born to parent / s who just dont give a toss.

Nail on head - kids having kids when they don't even have the maturity to look after themselves properly.

I think the answer is to beat more kids up, that'll sort it.

Yeah, if you hit them hard/repeatedly enough in the danglies you'll render them infertile, thus solving the problem for future generations.

I think the answer is to beat more kids up, that'll sort it.

Extending it to the absurd again grumm, it doesnt help your argument - you were sounding rational until then!

You suggest that it is down to parenting - I agree entirely. But how do you now deal with the product of bad parenting? Its all well and good saying how people should be taught to be better parents but it's too late for 2 or so generations now. Even for some adults who seem to have lost the sense of right and wrong. Now even if we all started parenting perfectly, we still have the legacy of a large number of morons with no respect. Sometimes extreme reactions are necessary to make a point.

Those who suggest ignoring/calling the police - try living with them daily harrassing you with no comeback from the law, breaking your property just because they're drunk or its funny to them. It makes life a living hell for LOT of people who just want to come home at night and relax.

As for your comments about society in general disliking/distrusting kids - it always has; as older family members tell me kids were always a bit of a pain and thought of as trouble right back to the 30s, it just has more justification now, and instead of a "little trouble" a lot of them are DANGEROUS when they get into a mob mentality. Not all kids are a pain, but the numbers are high and increasing!

I suspect national service would be a good idea in a lot of cases. As a good kid, I'd have hated it initially, but I think it could have been beneficial in some ways.