[Closed] EDL in Birmingham Today

That's not fear, it's just under-developed anger, he'll come good in the end

Crosses fingers theGreatape is being ironic

Dunnomaout others, biut I'm looking forward to this

Yes that was a bit of a flounce be fair. I have to go to work now. But I'll be back.

Fear not junkyard

jamj1974 - Member
Is it me or does that little boy look really frightened...?

I never cease to be utterly disgusted at the behavior of these cretins. So dejected by the sight of that boy surrounded by such hate. Truly a glimpse into the dark side.

On reflection maybe the EDL are right to be concerned.

Hopefully they will soon be expelling descendants of illegal immigrants from their ranks.

If they start with the Angles, then the Saxons, and finish up by culling out those of Norman descent they will be doing their country a great service.

Then both remaining members of the EDL can go forward secure in their racial purity. 🙂

Hmm. I'm a bit of a mixed race mongrel type, if they deport me can I pick and choose where I get sent home? Or do I get dismembered and sent to all of them? This may influence my decision.

Northwind - Member
Hmm. I'm a bit of a mixed race mongrel type, if they deport me can I pick and choose where I get sent home? Or do I get dismembered and sent to all of them? This may influence my decision.

Come to Scotland and ride free... 🙂

Oh, and free dismemberment available in Glasgae - just wear your favourite green or blue trackies.

Is it me or does that little boy look really frightened...?

Maybe he's frightened that the police are going to murder his dad?

[i](see fascist police attack innocent friendly protesters threads passim)[/i]

Maybe he's frightened that the police are going to murder his dad?

I see.......he's been brought up to fear the police as much as he fears muslims ?

Not holier than thou - just tolerant. I've never lived in a Muslim country and funnily enough the vast, vast majority of Muslims I have met don't want to live in a Muslim country either... So your point would be what Neilfether? Articulate your views - I am happy that you can do so, but don't support riots which are not undertaken as peaceful protests but instead are designed to intimidate and agress others who don't share your views

For balance though, I am living in a part of london where I am often blanked because I'm white and next doors house has a giant poster of Saddam Hussein in the window.

Not that I condone the edl but I can now partly understand why the working classes are falling into the laps of the edl, bnp and ukip.

Not that I condone the edl but I can now partly understand why the working classes are falling into the laps of the edl, bnp and ukip.

I hope you're not suggesting the working classes are inherently racist. Excuse the sweeping generalisation, but If the working classes are guilty of anything, it's being uneducated and ignorant. This ignorance allows the likes of the EDL, UKIP, rightwing media, the racist gobshite down the pub, to peddle lies and scare stories which provide simplistic and sensationalist explanations for the problems experienced by the working classes. And in the absence of any clear opposition from the likes of the Labour party, is it any wonder this is happening?

good point they are not racist just stupid and ill educated

Excellent defence of them there 😉

I agree with your latter points but if I can elaborate I do think that much of the working classes feel disenfranchised through lack of work and their changing neighbourhoods.....unfortunately resistance and fear of change is natural in human beings.....in this regard I do feel as if we should be trying to listen to their grievances instead of making the problem worse by sweeping social problems under the carpet.

Personally I just feel sorry for humanity as a whole and can usually see the world from anyone's perspective...instead of dismissing one group as stupid/racists/terrorists...so thats why I weighed in.

just stupid and ill educated

I think you know full well that being stupid is not the same as being uneducated.

And no the media is not the main cause of the working classes racism....imo its social issues and divisions in economically poor areas as I only know to well from having lived in such an area for a while.

Yunki: The primary school I attended now has 100% Asian children. They do not celebrate any Christian beliefs. They do not celebrate Christmas or Easter.

From Stag Lane's website:
"The highlight of the term, as always, is the Christmas
show which the staff and children have been working very
hard towards for the past several months."

[img] [/img]
"100% Asian"? Clearly absolute rubbish.

in this regard I do feel as if we should be trying to listen to their grievances instead of making the problem worse by sweeping social problems under the carpet.

Absolutely. But that doesn't mean submitting to the lies and misinformation they've been fed by the media and the rightwing nutjobs for the past 5 years. Like blaming all social ills on imaginary illegal immigrants and hard-working polish plumbers isn't sweeping it under the carpet?

Oh, and Ofsted describe the school as outstanding. Sounds like an absolutely wonderful little school, actually.

Still dont agree daz....its not the media its actually living in places that have seen massive demographic changes that causes the racism.

On the school.....i have my own rambling story....just another reason as to why I feel people need to understand the social issues instead of labelling one side of the issue....at about the age of 9 my primary school went on exchange with a mostly asian school in leicester....the first thing I heard when we sat down in assembly was hearing all the local children whispering about how we were probably racists. You know being country hicks and all that....any I always wondered how they learnt that.

its actually living in places that have seen massive demographic changes that causes the racism.

Really? It seems to me that many of the key target seats of the further-right parties are very white, often provincial/rural areas where the only fuel is the media, not reality. I live in a very multicultural, inner-"city" part of Reading, and the BNP and even UKIP barely ever show their face here because they'd get laughed out of town.

See working class mining towns/divisions in sheffield....walsall...birmingham etc...plenty of skinhead types there....my experience is different.

You're talking about low grade "I might vote ukip" types....im talking about the types of people that use the term **** with venom. Eg edl members.

I've posted about this before but I think it is possible to have concerns about immigration without being a racist. Sadly though there is often a hell of a lot of crossover between the two, and the amount of myths that get passed around as 'fact' is ridiculous.

That's what really stifles any attempt at sensible discussion on the issue, not PC gone mad, IMO. In any discussion on the issue never far away from 'yeah and they banned christmas in Birmingham' or some other such nonsense.

- Immigration: some 31 per cent of the population is thought to consist of recent immigrants, when the figure is actually 13 per cent. Even including illegal immigrants, the figure is only about 15 per cent. On the issue of ethnicity, black and Asian people are thought to make up 30 per cent of the population, when the figure is closer to 11 per cent.

Oh, they've come out to play in the working class mining area I grew up in, for sure, despite the fact that there is far less non-white-British makeup to the ethnic split there. They play in areas of reduced economic opportunity, regardless of ethnic division, because it's so easy to stir up a sense of immigration being the problem.

Interestingly and on a slight tangent, it's interesting to see how well UKIP does in deprived seaside areas (e.g. Lowestoft) when about the only thing keeping those places afloat is EU support.

Most multi-cultural areas are just normal working and middle class areas, getting on just fine, with the added benefit of a bit of interesting cultural diversity.

There are a handful of places where things have got really polarised, and again that's something the racist organisations seize upon and turn into a nationwide issue. Like I say, I've never seen a single piece of BNP literature in over a decade in West Reading, and I live in (by census measures) one of the three most multicultural wards (out of 16) in an already quite diverse town.

So my view is that racism is absolutely stirred up by the media and the far right on the basis of exaggeration (the "our towns are turning into single-race ghettos") and outright falsehood ("my old school is 100% asian, oh, apart from all the white and black kids in its photo, erm")

its not the media its actually living in places that have seen massive demographic changes that causes the racism.

Sorry. This is b*llox, and another example of lazy thinking. Ormondroyd is right, areas where levels of racism and support for UKIP/EDL/BNP are high are largely very white areas with small immigrant populations. I too live in an area which is very multicultural (the school my kids go to has kids from 20 nationalities), and whilst I wouldn't describe it as a liberal utopia, I can honestly say that racism is at the bottom of the list in terms of problems which need dealing with.

Well my experience with multiculturalism in london is that the its racial segregation in geographically small areas.

The eastern europeans work and hang out together, as do the blacks and asians...I've heard whites and indians call asians ps....ive heard asians call blacks "nig*"....ive heard abuse towards whites by blacks...etc..ad nauseum.. they all seem to hate each other. I'm with merkel on multiculturalism....it did not work....and was in fact the lazy way of coping with needed and beneficial immigration.

Tom_W1987 - Member

For balance though, I am living in a part of london where I am often blanked because I'm white

Do you ask them "scuse me, why did you blank me?" Not being funny but I've lived in a few places where no bugger talks to anyone else or where new people get ignored. Seems to be modern life (the only friendly people in leith are either polish or begging 😉 )

You can just tell, along with the evils if you walk into the wrong shop/street/have a girlfriend on your arms who must be a gold digging whore because shes going out with a white guy.

I'm with merkel on multiculturalism....it did not work.

*looks out of window*

Well, nothing's on fire here.

Do you ask them "scuse me, why did you blank me?" Not being funny but I've lived in a few places where no bugger talks to anyone else or where new people get ignored.

This is exactly it. Mrs Daz is active in the PTA at our kids school, and when she asked the other white middle class mums why none of the asian parents are involved, the answer was, 'well no one has ever asked them and they've never seemed interested'. Then after Mrs Daz went and introduced herself to all the asian parents and got talking to them, they said, 'well no one has ever asked us to take part in the PTA'. Now the PTA has doubled in size and half the parents in it are asian, and they're extremely active in fundraising and putting on events which is all to the greater benefit of the school. It's nothing to do with racism, and everything to do with breaking down personal and social barriers.

There is some of that but it doesn't account for all of the divisions, social barriers have nothing to do with out right ignoring people or giving them evils. At the end of the day many of the different ethnic groups have deep rooted beliefs about other ethnic groups and it shows in who they work with and where they live.

(Eg there is an industrial site near me with loads of auto shops....you'll go past one...it will be full of eastern europeans....you go past the next....it will be full of black guys....then the next one will be full of Asians)....then the kebab shops will have one group or the other hanging out there at lunchtime.

I'd regard the Americans as more of an integrated melting pot than us and you only have to look at the LA riots to see how different ethnic groups...under the surface...hated each other. I don't think we are fairing any better than them, these issues and feelings are just whispered about instead of being dealt with in the open.

Not that I condone the edl but I can now partly understand why the working classes are falling into the laps of the edl, bnp and ukip.

Unfortunately so can I. They are being manipulated and led by groups like the EDL who portray everyday situations in a twisted and perverse manner.

Sorry, I just don't feel it is as simple as the media or the EDL causing the problems...supply and demand etc....there is something that stinks at the root of how we are all living together that needs to be dealt with.

Must say I didn't see this going on for 8 pages...

Yes, and no one is pretending racism doesn't exist. But if you believe the rightwingers who are peddling this rubbish you'd be forgiven for thinking that Britain is on the brink of some sort of race-war in our inner cities when it quite obviously isn't. The trouble is that the more people who repeat these lies second-hand, the more it becomes ingrained in the popular psyche and it becomes self-perpetuating. The real social problems in this country around multiculturalism, race, ethnicity etc are not caused by immigration, but by rightwing scaremongerers who are whipping up false hysteria and creating divisions where previously they didn't exist.

No that's just one problem, I think there is also a problem with the very idea of multiculturalism or at least the application of/policies surrounding multiculturalism in this country. Multiculturalism is an excuse for racial segregation imo.

Integration takes time...

Still don't see a lot of the Indian community being included as much as they could....I just see multiculturalism creating the same kinds of rifts that you see in America....where the black community still hasn't been integrated properly...for how long now? Where poor deprived localities = for black people - Rich areas = for white people....just in this case it can be swept under the carpet in the guise of multiculturalism instead of plain old racism like in the states.

Multiculturalism is an excuse for racial segregation imo.

It's not segregation, it's people naturally choosing to live among others who share a similar culture and values. You can't force someone to abandon their identity, even if they have come to live in 'your' country.

When I go to the pub to watch football, I tend to meet up with a load of geordies who support the same team. Is this segregation? Obviously I should integrate with the local community and support one of the Manchester teams?

No but it then goes on to foster segregation and bad attitudes between communities, choosing to live with other people like yourself because you feel safer is in itself just another consequence of your own racism as well.

Comparing football with communities living together on a day to day basis is laughable.

.I just see multiculturalism creating the same kinds of rifts that you see in America....where the black community still hasn't been integrated properly...for how long now?

As for America you seem very confused as to whether it s a good example or a bad example

I'd regard the Americans as more of an integrated melting pot than us ....[next post]I just see multiculturalism creating the same kinds of rifts that you see in America.

choosing to live with other people like yourself because you feel safer is in itself just another consequence of racism as well.

Now you're being silly. You really expect a ****stani to go and live in a white estate rather than an area with other ****stanis where they might have friends, family or other social connections?

Still don't see a lot of the Indian community being included as much as they could....I just see multiculturalism creating the same kinds of rifts that you see in America....where the black community still hasn't been integrated properly...for how long now?

On the whole people of Indian heritage seem to be quite well integrated in this country. People from ****stani origins less so IMNVWIO (I just made that up 🙂 ). Or did you mean Indians as in everyone from the Indian sub-continent?

As for America you seem very confused as to whether it s a good example or a bad example

It's both bad and good, good because they have a better idea of how immigration should work. (American first, wherever you came from second). Bad in that they still haven't solved the huge scar left by slavery.

Now you're being silly. You really expect a ****stani to go and live in a white estate rather than an area with other ****stanis where they might have friends, family or other social connections?

Yes, if I move to Japan I don't expect to live in an area full of Brits and then complain when the Japanese are irritated that I have not taken them time to integrate myself with their culture. My actions would foster more racism on their part.

Or did you mean Indians as in everyone from the Indian sub-continent?

No.

Like everything else, it's not black and white... At one end of the scale, you've got monocultures, not desirable. At the other, you can have that voluntary segregation thing, also not desirable. But multiculturalism covers the whole grey area inbetween which is where the good stuff is.

"voluntary segregation" isn't comparable with mandatory IMO.