You are comparing multiculturalism to the treatment of a race who were slaves in that country and only recently got the end to segregation and are still the victims of open racism....WOW what a poor choice and strange comparison.
I'm going to take this as a failure to read properly before you typed angrily, I didn't say the cause was the same I said the end point was.
"voluntary segregation" isn't comparable with mandatory IMO.
It creates the exact same misunderstandings and divisions within society if those "voluntary" segregations produce exactly the same socioeconomic divisions.
It's amazing though how given time and money most immigrants move out of enclaves - if they even moved into them in the first place...
Oh incoherent and patronising - this seems like a familiar sales pitch to avoid defending your contradiction
I didn't say the cause was the same I said the end point was.
WOW accuses me of not reading then does that Oh the ironing - [ I suspect I need to explain this ] I said you were comparing them and behold your denial explains how you compared them ...AWESOME
SO we agree you are comparing them 🙄I think next you pretend you dont understand my point and suggest I am an idiot? You do this because you missed the next stage which would be to accuse me of being angry or emotive but you have done that with the patronising move
Yes, if I move to Japan I don't expect to live in an area full of Brits and then complain when the Japanese are irritated that I have not taken them time to integrate myself with their culture. My actions would foster more racism on their part.
I'll repeat what I've already said. You can't force someone to abandon their identity, or live, work or associate with people of a particular group. You seem rather confused in that you oppose segregation but apparently you think it's ok to force people to live in particular places against their will? Do you not see the inherent conflict there? Do you really want to live in a country which has a Stalinist policy of forcing people to live, work, socialise and behave in a particular place and in a particlular fashion?
You can just tell, along with the evils if you walk into the wrong shop/street/have a girlfriend on your arms who must be a gold digging whore because shes going out with a white guy.
Maybe I've just chosen the 'right' shops but I (as a non-Asian) have been into lots of Asian shops for curry ingredients and never noticed this. In fact a few of them were staffed almost entirely by eastern Europeans! I also coped just fine when I needed a haircut in a hurry and ended up in a Jamaican barbershop.
Would it be mad to suggest that some of it might be in your head? And "multiculturalism doesn't work because a black looked at me funny" is clutching at straws a bit.
I have been told "no offence, it's just that I was brought up not to trust people like you" though. Which was nice.
And given some of the other posts I'm happy to report that despite being different colours my parents live in the same (happily mixed) neighbourhood, in the same house actually, as unbelievable as that might be.
When I see the passion Ian Wright shows watching an England match I would like the EDL people to explain to me how he is not English.
my parents live in the same (happily mixed) neighbourhood, in the same house actually, as unbelievable as that might be.
Yes but do they actually get on with each other 😉
I live in East London, and there's certainly groupings of migrants, but that's just common sense in that it means people can speak their own language and have access to goods that they want.
Certainly no blanking in the street no harassment and no racism that I ever see, just a nice vibrant culture with the ability to get excellent food and meet great people.
Every business I use seems to be delighted to see me regardless of the ethnicity of the staff/owner, it's brilliant.
Is there any objective evidence that the appalling EDl is a 'working' class phenomenon. I ask because I believe that prejudice is present throughout all classes.
Further to that we are failed by the politicians as an example the only parties that bothered to canvas my old neighbourhood a poor part of Falkirk. . . BNP and the tories Shame on all the rest.
Is there any objective evidence that the appalling EDl is a 'working' class phenomenon.
😆
Is there any objective evidence that the appalling EDl is a 'working' class phenomenon. I ask because I believe that prejudice is present throughout all classes.
Well given that the leader of the EDL 'Tommy Robinson' is actually called 'Stephen Yaxley-Lennon' but changed his name by deed poll, as he thought the double barreled name didn't quite fit his salt-of-the-earth, working class man-of-the-people persona he'd manufactured from himself, I'd suspect not
The fact that you'd go out on the streets on the say so of someone who is clearly something they're not just reinforces the idiocy of these people.
I wouldn't even be remotely surprised if in 5 years time, given recent revelations, he was unmasked as an undercover police officer 😆
For what it's worth I voted snp but the local campaign was very disappointing. I guess labour just thought they would weigh their vote as usual . The point is that established parties made little or no real effort to engage with people and this left a gap for the extremists .
I thought the EDL were anti Islam rather than racist per se. I really must read the Guardian more.
6 pages and 48 hours too late with that point and hilarious joke
actually called 'Stephen Yaxley-Lennon' but changed his name by deed poll, as he thought the double barreled name didn't quite fit his salt-of-the-earth, working class man-of-the-people persona he'd manufactured from himself, I'd suspect not
Wow Binners - talk about prejudice, an assumption that a double barreled name is a class issue!
[i]"Stephen Yaxley is the name on my birth certificate. I was born to a father by the name of Yaxley, who I have nothing to do with. He is not my Dad, my dad is Thomas Lennon, which is why I changed my name to Lennon, when he adopted me"[/i]
I thought the EDL were anti Islam rather than racist per se
Funny how an anti-islam organisation attracts racists though, eh?
Wow Binners - talk about prejudice, an assumption that a double barreled name is a class issue!
I didn't. He did.
"Stephen Yaxley is the name on my birth certificate. I was born to a father by the name of Yaxley, who I have nothing to do with. He is not my Dad, my dad is Thomas Lennon, which is why I changed my name to Lennon, when he adopted me"
He didn't change it to Lennon though, did he? He changed it to Yaxley-Lennon. Then he changed it again to Robinson, and changed his first name while he was at it. Apparently in honour of a famous Luton Firm Football Hooligan!
Real classy. Doesn't sound remotely suspect at all really, does it? 🙄
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Cheers binners a quick Google reveals that Mr Yaxley lennon was a BNP member and has been convicted of assault and fraud.
I am still wondering though does the EDL support not grow because other parties do not engage with people who have been let down by the 'political process'. That's to say that no party has addressed the needs of poor people at national or local level. Jobs decent schools and hospitals and services and a feeling that there's one rule for everyone ...at the moment it seems that there is one rule for the masses ...and another altogether for the elite . Leaves a gap for the extremists.
Indeed. The BNP managed to get a few local Councillors elected in some of the northern mill-towns a few years back.
They managed this by correctly assuming that the labour party just took for granted the fact that poor white communities would vote for them. So they didn't even bother to campaign. The BNP did. And when canvasing, they didn't bang on about race all the time. They did their research and found out what local problems were and made out that was their main concern, and pointed out (correctly) that the mainstream political parties couldn't care less about them. Fixated as they are with 'Key Marginals'.
So people (again correctly) came to the conclusion that seeing as the main political parties, including labour couldn't give a toss about them, why not vote BNP
And if the labour party can't see that the more socially acceptable face of racism and xenophobia - UKIP - are likely to pull exactly the same stunt at forthcoming elections, in disillusioned northern wards, then they need to wake up. They won't of course.
Does this look like a man who's either familiar with, or remotely bothered about the problems of poverty in the suburbs of Rochdale?
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[img]http:// https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=eric+Joyce&source=android-browser-type&hl=en-GB&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=zkbtUYLTKZD30gWYsICIDg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&rlz=1Y1XIUG_enGB531GB531 [/img] the face of labour in Falkirk. ..
One day I'll learn how to put a photo on here
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In fact Mr Joyce and Mr Yaxley-lennon both like a scrap
Bang on the money, Binners.
I read through some of the BNP propaganda that came through my door around election time, for a giggle. Somewhat surprisingly, they'd managed to come up with some attractive and sensible policy proposals (aside from the whole 'send them back where they came from' schtick, naturally).
If folk didn't know any better or were prepared to overlook the ideals they're better known for, it's not hard to see why they started winning votes.
It's not only labour though all the parties are to blame.
They managed this by correctly assuming that the labour party just took for granted the fact that poor white communities would vote for them.
It's even worse than this. In the places where they do campaign and the times they bring up the subject, the labour party do a very good job of positively reinforcing the rightwing agenda by paying lip-service to it, rather than outright opposing it. How tragic is it to see labour MPs trotting out nonsense about 'having a conversation' about immigration or supporting workfare or some other equally pernicious rightwing policy which would have Atlee, Bevan and Beveridge turning in their graves?
Agree Cougar - we had some BNP stuff through our door and it was incredibly well written. Not the perfect use of English and the like - far from it but absolutely bang on for its target audience (more coppers on the beat protecting YOUR family, more jobs for local people, local houses for local people - stuff like that).
Reading between the lines it was quite clear what the party stood for but it wasn't an overt message that could offend anyone too much.
The mainstream parties could learn a thing or two about how to attract voters from their propaganda...
But you expect nothing else from the Tories. A party that is bank-rolled by hedge funds and City Financiers is never going to give a toss about anyhting outside the home counties. And so it has proved
But a party still funded by union subsciptions, and returning the MP's from Northern constituencies should be doing something more than just parroting the same nasty, self interested, ultra rightwing claptrap as the Tories
Its difficult to see what on earth the point of the present labour party is.
Answers on a post card....
I'm having more of a problem seeing what the point of the Liberals / coalition is, TBH. Doesn't look like much of a joint effort to me.
ultra rightwing
😆
What's the Democratic party then? Ultra ultra right wing? How about the ultra ultra ultra right wing Repuplican party? Not enough ultras?
I have no idea how many ultras Golden Dawn would get.
Its difficult to see what on earth the point of the present labour party is.Answers on a post card....
To get into power. By any means necessary. That is it.
The saddest thing is that they actually still seem to believe they're on the side of normal people. I nearly spat out my beer the other week when I saw Miliband on the news at question time calling the Labour party the 'party of the people'.
Its difficult to see what on earth the point of the present labour party is.
Indeed. There's something very disturbing about the way Labour MPs now go on TV to defend the current government's policies. 😕
I thought the EDL were anti Islam rather than racist per se. I really must read the Guardian more.
'This video was taken at the EDL’s very recent Newcastle demonstration, which attracted over 1,500 people.
This clip was edited out of the official video.
It features a key EDL operative, who is brought on stage by leader Tommy Robinson, saying: “send the black ****s home”.'
Luckily the EDL crowd expressed their disgust at the vile racism by the guy on the mi......
Oh no wait, actually they all cheered.
So if the political parties are not doing the job .....change them but politics is too expensive to get into.
The biggest winner from the other-world, south east-centred policies of the main parties are playing right into the hands of Parties like UKIP. The Labour Party has been complacent about them, making the frankly stupid assumption that they'll only pick up disillusioned Tory votes
Farage has already said he intends to target northern seats. And you can put your house on them employing exactly the same tactics as the BNP did so successfully. If your working for minimum wage in Burnley, why on earth would you vote for the present Labour Party?
The 'anyone but the Tories' vote they've taken for granted, while giving nothing back, isn't going to win them elections like it used too. The worlds changed! And the beneficiaries of labours complacency (or betrayal, depending on your point of view) could be very unpleasant indeed!
Farage has already said he intends to target northern seats. And you can put your house on them employing exactly the same tactics as the BNP did so successfully.
Didn't the BNP adopt 'Old Labour' policies in order to win votes in traditional Labour heartlands though? Can't see UKIP doing that.
Didn't the BNP adopt 'Old Labour' policies in order to win votes in traditional Labour heartlands though? Can't see UKIP doing that.
Not sure you can categorise it as 'old labour', I can't remember the labour party ever using foreigners, benefits scroungers, and public sector workers as scapegoats for all the world's ills. I think you're getting confused with 'New Labour v2.0'.
Farage is a clever sod. He'll run on a ticket of anti-politics. The massively increasing 'none of the above' vote.
I doubt very much he'll be making many policy commitments at all. Just like Call me Dave didn't. Just make some vague noises and give no detail.
Farage will get tied down if anyone actually asks him about his policies
a man for whom the right wing tory party under thatcher was not right wing enough so he left
The privately educated ex investment banker and broker does the man of the people bon homie exceptionally well to be fair
I think they will struggle up north tbh
Not sure you can categorise it as 'old labour', I can't remember the labour party ever using foreigners, benefits scroungers, and public sector workers as scapegoats for all the world's ills. I think you're getting confused with 'New Labour v2.0'.
Nope. The BNP talked about renationalising industries and there was lots of anti-banker rhetoric etc.
Not sure if it's still the case but I looked at their policies on their own site a couple of years ago and a lot of it sounded surprisingly socialist.
JY - That lazy assumption that they'll struggle up north is exactly what's happening in the Labour Party, because they are now so completely detached from the constituencies they are supposed to represent, they haven't got a clue what people really think.
I reckon that they could be in for one hell of a shock in the European elections. Remember: Nick Griffen got himself elected last time out! And the Labour Party wasn't quite the pointless shambles it is now.
Binners you cannot base an actual election that matters on what happens in the EU elections- is one massive proitest vote basically. Its like a national by election
Of course UKIP will do well in those as will the BNP
I doubt it will translate to an MP for either party though in a real election that matters
I am not suggesting they be ignored I would simply ask fol to read the manifesto it is fairly barking tbh
Flat rate tax being but one example and proper climate change denial
He is to the right of Nigel lawson and some publicity will make the average folk realise that he is no ton their side even if they hate Europe
I imagine by the election everyone will promise [ perhaps PLEDGE ] a referendum on this so UKIP offer little different
I'm sure their manifesto is completely bonkers! So was the tory's. people still voted for them
My point is that with all the mainstream parties will lose loads of votes to frankly barking mad fringe parties, some of whom will have some pretty damn unpleasant agendas, like the BNP.
Lets be honest, when it comes to subjects like immigration, do you see much difference between the BNP, and the more lunatic fringe of the Tory Party? Or UKIP and the tories on Europe? Because I don't.
Labour will be in trouble because nobody will be arsed to actually get off there sofa to go and vote for them, they're so devoid of policies, and completely uninspiring! The nutters on the right always get out and vote!
Unfortunately - without PR - it is swing voters who decide elections not the stalwart supporters on each side of the divide
Whilst personally I want a lurch to the left I am less sure it would lead to the success we hope for but I would at least like to hear them try.
sadly Nu Labour think dont be as big a bunch of ****s as the Tory is a winning electoral strategy and they may well have a point
Lets be honest, when it comes to subjects like immigration, do you see much difference between the BNP, and the more lunatic fringe of the Tory Party? Or UKIP and the tories on Europe?
There's a huge difference between "the more lunatic fringe of the Tory Party" and the BNP imo.
By "lunatic fringe" I'm assuming you mean the Thatcherite right, which while they might champion and encourage greed and the vast accumulation of personal wealth, whilst seeking scapegoats to detract from their own political failures, are in a completely different category to the BNP.
The BNP is typically made up of white supremacist racists who idolize the memory of Adolf Hilter and the German Nazis Party. I would never accuse the Tory Right of being in that league.
The manifestos of the likes of BNP and UKIP may well be completely barking mad .If there is no political party prepared to address people's legitimate concerns about jobs schools nhs, local services and addresses the issue of different standards being applied to working people and the elite then groups like the EDL will continue to flourish and spread their hatred.
There's no reason for complacency in Scotland either as there's an SDL too which also seems to consist of a lot of BNP members. There is also some organised opposition to it ..mainly Scotland United.
