that is NOT the same thing as suppoorting SNP policy...I would bet the enforcement of pavement parking law is coming from the lib dems
Absolutely wild that you think that Labour actually implementing a certain policy means they will oppose it, that the SNP failing to implement a policy means it is in favour of it, and the Lib Dems (who in fact voted against the policy) must secretly be the driving force behind it!
Only concern I have about this is the implementation or rather information side of it, how do you fairly communicate something like this to visitors, when it's just one city or I think actually council area? Quite a big ask, I think. Not to defend shitty parking but it's so completely normalised at this point that it does need to be handled right.
(not sure if there's anywhere within Edinburgh itself that this applies, but I can think of a load of EH postcodes that might be edinburgh, might be midlothian but have those sort of "double pavements" that are designed as parking, which currently seem to be in a bit of a grey area and which the DVLA apparently consider to be both pavements and roads simultaneously...)
Pca. Labour are NOt implementing it. Labour do not control the council.
Labour didnot support this measure in Holyrood
Im curious about the "double pavements for parking"
Any streetview links?
Pca. Labour are NOt implementing it. Labour do not control the council.
Absolutely wild that you deny Edinburgh City Council is a Labour council, despite what the council and the media say.
It's a very revealing: "this is a good SNP policy, therefore Labour will hate it, and therefore if a Labour council implemented it, it means it wasn't a Labour council". All of this is contradicted by the facts which have been shown to you, but it doesn't seem to matter.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/labour-seize-control-edinburgh-council-27070476
And the worst offender for pavement parking in Leith is...drum roll...
The mobility scooter shop with its wares blocking half the pavement!😃
In Edinburgh the suburbs are patrolled by wardens.
fairly communicate something like this to visitors, when it’s just one city
Shouldn't have to . Parking like a **** has crept in. If you park like a **** your fair game for fund generation
@tuboflard Sheffield is ****ing mental, legend has it Luc Besson wrote the script for Taxi after a visit.
I'm from Edinburgh, but left in 2004.
This seems like total madness.
Is the council still broadly made up of the same people who thought up the tram, implemented the tram and are now redoing the tram?
There are loads of streets that will be completely impassible with a car on either side.
Surely if they are going for this, those streets need yellow lines down one side?
piemonster
Full MemberIm curious about the “double pavements for parking”
Any streetview links?
Sure, here's a good example.
https://www.google.com/maps/ @55.8681811,-3.1794061,3a,46.7y,338.79h,82.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suNhDYBnR0HOrIM0t3JmkyQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
There's a bunch of this out on the south side of the city. They're concrete reinforced grass and sort of boxed out with concrete verges so they're really clearly seperate from the pavement, and they stop around drop kerbs, crossings, etc, but they're not painted or signed parking bays either. They're definitely for parking but I don't think they have any legal status as a "parking place".
Surely if they are going for this, those streets need yellow lines down one side?
Which is what has been done around my way.
PCA - its not a labour council. I put up the numbers of Councillors. Its run by a coalition of labour tory and lib dems and labour are either the 2nd or 3rd largest party depending if they let the two refusniks back in. Its a simple fact.
@Northwind, re that pic, I thought double yellows and zigzags both meant you couldn't park, and both refer to the full width of the highway which normally includes pavement.
But I'm not much of a parking nerd so might be missing something..
There are loads of streets that will be completely impassible with a car on either side.
This is not a good argument against a pavement parking ban. If there's nowhere on the road to park there's nowhere to park. You find somewhere else. It's not an excuse to occupy the pavement. There's no reason for motor vehicles to be anywhere but the road.
I thought double yellows and zigzags both meant you couldn’t park, and both refer to the full width of the highway which normally includes pavement.
Yes, that's definitely not legal parking.
thecaptain - by my understanding they should not be parked there either. If I lived there I would be reporting that daily
Here is another road with double width pavements used for parking. NO yellow lines in this case and plenty of room to park on the road. Not even an obstruction in this case but they are going over a kerb to park there<br /><br /> https://maps.app.goo.gl/iqsvNiyYYqGaifr99
@northwind @piemonster gets another example in Roslin. My mind goes straight here when I read pavement parking. The pavement is double wide used for half on half off parking, which spills over into parking half on single width pavements further down. It's terrible for pedestrians but literally nowhere else for residents to park without causing the same problem.
It’s terrible for pedestrians but literally nowhere else for residents to park without causing the same problem.
then they ave to park somewhere that does not obstruct the pavements. Its really simple. If you cannot park legally and safely in one place then you need to park elsewhere. there is no right to park by your house, there is a right to have unobstucted pavements
this one annoys the hell out of me but is actually legal - as the land in front of the buildings where the cars are parked actually belongs to the buildings<br /><br /> https://maps.app.goo.gl/vHH5bfNkjcnRUrQU9
Don't get me wrong TJ, I'm all for it. This is just an example where I see it causing a lot of grief for residents but will benefit pedestrians.
Hopefully it will be implemented in Glasgow soon too.
Enforcement is obviously an issue but if it reverses the normalisation of pavement parking then I'm all for it. It might also stop my local pet hate, which is people using the pavement to park their second car because it's more convenient than using their driveway.
Edinburgh needs to revise the permit situation. There are streets that are virtually empty because the houses are big enough not to need on street parking. But nobody is parking there because of the need for permits, this then causes congestion elsewhere.
Does Edinburgh not have park and ride?
It has park and wait a long time for a bus to Princes Street then another bus for where you actually want to go.
Is that what you mean?
The busses in Edinburgh are great. The bus routes in Edinburgh do absolutely nothing to promote not using a car.
When did you last use public transport Josh?
Edinburgh has a very good public transport system. there are designated park and ride. there are train / tram stations east west and south of the city where you can park. You can get all day travel on the buses for less than a few hours parking charge. newcraighall park and ride is 50p for parking per day Buses run less than every 15 mins plus trains every half hour. trains take 11 mins to the city centre, bus 40 odd mins
Sherrifhall - parking free, plenty of buses.
Plenty of other designated park and ride or unofficial park and ride options
Lots of the busses cross the city centre
I imagine most park and rides do the same, take you from the outskirts to the centre, in this case Princes St.
You would imagine wrong.
For example from newcraighall the 30 takes you east / west right across the city to Juniper green ( not that that would make any sense as a park and ride) but you could use it to get to the west end for example but almost no buses terminate on princes street
Or from ~Sherrifhall the 29 crosses the city right to silverknowes going thru the northern parts of the city, the 33 goes thru the centre and out to the bypass in the esat going right thru the west end
Or ingleston - tram right across the city
Almost al Edinburgh bus services go into the city centre then out again. very few terminate in the city. Most do hit princes street to make it easy to transfer to another "spoke" service
thats only a few of the alternatives. If you want to check fill yer boots. You could get to almost anywhere in the city from a park and ride if you chose the right par and ride place
https://www.lothianbuses.com/our-services/park-and-ride/
Does Edinburgh not have park and ride?
More to the point, who actually drives in Edinburgh?
Suburban station, short train ride, zero hassle.
TJ those "pavements" are badly designated but you can clearly see the intent behind them. They also appear to leave plenty of room for pedestrians so what's the problem? Cheaper to do than extending the road as they were likely grass strips in a former life.
Also looking forward to a surge in monoblocked gardens and all the water displacement that brings. Not a reason not to do it but a bit of joined up thinking would have been nice.
I don't thinkt hey were ever grass. Certainly not for the last 30 years. While it is true you can park on them and barely obstruct the pavement it still does prevent you from walking side by side ie supporting someone with mobility issues and still ruins sight lines for crossing the road but I did post it to show that a one size fits all solution is not always best. Whats needed there is a normal width pavement and parking bays
Like all things motoring , it needs a couple of zeros stuck on the fine. That would surely pay for a dedicated motoring police force. That silver car above would be costing the driver at least £1000.
If the road is not wide enough to have two lanes of unimpeded flowing traffic with no parking off the highway then parking should be banned. End of problem.
You don't buy a cow if you don't have a field do you?
TJ those “pavements” are badly designated but you can clearly see the intent behind them. They also appear to leave plenty of room for pedestrians so what’s the problem?
Part of the problem, and arguably a very large one, is the gradual reduction in available space for pedestrians, which erodes standards of living. It just makes for a very unpleasant environment, unless you're in a car of course, and so there's only really one obvious outcome of that.
It also normalises this behaviour everywhere, regardless of how much or little space there is.
More to the point, who actually drives in Edinburgh
Residents without parking apparently
Just to clarify, I was talking about Northwinds post.
tall_martin
Full MemberThere are loads of streets that will be completely impassible with a car on either side.
Surely if they are going for this, those streets need yellow lines down one side?
Yep. I mean, it's not just a wave of a wand, there's a ton of other work that's going to have to be done to actually make it work in practice, and some of that's already happened and is still happening. There's been other moves on to variously restrict and formalise parking in a bunch of areas, like out in slateford or around my brother's place in Abbeyhill...
https://www.google.com/maps/ @55.9544814,-3.1515465,3a,75y,92.22h,88.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sjrH-s-QP4EwivahEv1Y3OQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DjrH-s-QP4EwivahEv1Y3OQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D49.58757%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
NOT a one-way road. This one's interesting I think because on paper it's a disaster, but it's pretty much found an organic solution that's worked for a long time and that the residents have pretty much chosen for themselves. The road gets half-blocked but the pavements are clear, and it enforces a natural very low speed limit and totally prevents ratrunners. And still space for a fire engine. The changes are still in the consultation phase but looking at the plans I don't think anything proposed has any chance of working better than how it does now, it seems to be mostly about "making the road work as the rules say roads are damn well supposed to work" rather than the current "the road is actually doing a job really well by ignoring the rules".
If it were me I'd just stick as close to the current reality and make it One Way, but instead the plan seems to be to beat it back into a narrow 2-lane road with one set of painted bays and permits. Which I think is just going to reduce the amount of parking and speed up the traffic passing through, for what benefit?
butcher
Full MemberYes, that’s definitely not legal parking.
Quite likely true. But that's the point, it was built for parking and has been used that way for decades and, well, it works. Presumably there was some building phase when it was a done thing, you only really see it with that a couple of styles of house.
I guess the real point though is it helps show why it's not as simple as it sounds. The Fraser Avenue example's a good one too as that was almost definitely built to be parked on, but it's even less well defined than the one I posted where at least there's a division and a clear difference of construction between "walking pavement" and "parking pavement".
mattsccm
Free MemberYou don’t buy a cow if you don’t have a field do you?
Yeah, but might buy a cow if you've always been allowed to graze in the bit of grass near your house and everyone else does it and so did their dads and their grandads. I don't think there's any "right" to do so but I'm sympathetic to people who've done it responsibly and in line with social norms for a long time and then suddenly find themselves with a cow in the living room.
Responsibly andin line with social norms are not really the same thing. Roads round my way had pavements completely blocked with parked cars constantly. that was the social norm but by 'eck it ain't responsible when folk have to walk in the road instead
Northwinds picture I bet that was grass when built. so many folk parked on it it wrecked the grass hence the concrete reinforcing put in later. Just a guess tho but by the age of the houses far fewer folk would have had cars then
Outlawing pavement parking is a great step forwards.
But they’re still parking their cars on the roads.
If they phased out such roadside parking, they’d quickly devise some kind of egalitarian alternative.
The problem with all the cycling/ walking initiatives in the uk is that there has been some carrot but no stick.
tjagain
Full MemberNorthwinds picture I bet that was grass when built. so many folk parked on it it wrecked the grass hence the concrete reinforcing put in later.
Very much doubt it tbh, when you see it, it's very "factory fit", all the same preformed sections knitting in perfectly without the gaps and fills and oddness you'd expect with a rebuild. The effort and cost to redo streets like this just makes it really unlikely, compared with the cheap and ugly methods they could and often did use.
But, at the very least it's decades old, and was designed and built as parking spaces when it was done, so i don't think it makes any difference to the reality.
Fair enough northwind. I was just looking at the age of the houses. Pre war? Certainly no later than the 50s but I do take your point
Very much doubt it tbh, when you see it, it’s very “factory fit”, all the same preformed sections knitting in perfectly without the gaps and fills and oddness you’d expect with a rebuild. The effort and cost to redo streets like this just makes it really unlikely, compared with the cheap and ugly methods they could and often did use.
Nah, they did it in Troon along one of the main roads through the scheme about 30odd years ago, the side streets still have grass.
But that's my point, it was never suitable for walking on anyway and at least your example is porous unlike tarmac. The pavement isn't any smaller than it was.
When did you last use public transport Josh?
Edinburgh has a very good public transport system. there are designated park and ride. there are train / tram stations east west and south of the city where you can park. You can get all day travel on the buses for less than a few hours parking charge. newcraighall park and ride is 50p for parking per day Buses run less than every 15 mins plus trains every half hour. trains take 11 mins to the city centre, bus 40 odd mins
Sherrifhall – parking free, plenty of buses.
Plenty of other designated park and ride or unofficial park and ride options
Lots of the busses cross the city centre
Ooooh... Every week for the last 10 years? When was the last time YOU used the busses?
I generally agree with you on most points on here. But you are so deluded by Edinburgh public transport system, probably from living in the best served area outside Princes Street.
As stated the busses are fine, if the routes work for you *cough* IE you live in Leith *cough* then crack on.
The system needs rotary routes, an outer linking the park and rides and stations. An inner that links the major points, shopping centres, kings buildings and the residential areas.
What the current system does is drag everybody bar a few exception along Princes Street... That is not a public transport system build for getting people where they want to be.
I can literally cycle from Peebles to work faster than I can get public transport. And I'll give you a hint. I can't beat the bus to the outskirts ( I can cheat and put the bike in the bus though... But that's not lrt so you don't get to count that!)
Fair enough Not been on a bus for a week or two as I now use the tram when I can
yes it could do with "rims" as well as "spokes" for sure. At the moment it is basically spokes and hub
I just get frustrated with folk who never use it claiming things about it that are wrong as we have a couple of examples of on this thread ie all buses terminate at princes street 🙂 or that you cannot get a bus to anywhere bar princes street from any of the park and rides.
And I do use the buses, not often admittedly but I'm very aware of how they work.
Our last house had roads plenty wide to park on, but some twonks would still park up on the pavement.
Its maybe not what you meant Steven but it is what you said
I imagine most park and rides do the same, take you from the outskirts to the centre, in this case Princes St.
