[Closed] eBay item I sent but apparently 'not delivered' - close my paypal account?

Collect + might give £50 though.

Why should I refund him just because he says the package wasn't delivered? - that really would be naive.
CP say it has been delivered - for all we know the driver may well have handed it to the buyer personally and he's scamming me!

If he wants to take it up with eBay and open an 'item not recieved' case then that's fine but I can supply eBay with all the information they state in their Seller Protection FAQs that they require from me.

If they find in his favour then fine I'll refund and get what I can out of CP, but until then I'm doing nothing.

With regret in this case I hope the OP is the one out of pocket. Unless you offered a range of delivery options with the potential 'danger' of this option highlighted it's over to you in my opinion. It's not reasonable to expect the buyer to delve into the T&Cs of the service you are offering on their website. Did you say you were not going to insure the prop for more than the base value? You you told him you were using collect plus economy - why would he know that you went with the cheapskate £50 option when you knew the goods were worth far more. Your error - you effectively elected to insure yourself.

Why should I refund him just because he says the package wasn't delivered?

It was not delivered. It was (apparently) placed on his door step. Collect plus might call that delivered but imo unless the recipient has specifically chosen that option/risk that is not delivered, just dumped in the general vicinity of the destination.

CP say it has been delivered - for all we know the driver may well have handed it to the buyer personally and he's scamming me!

That's tin foil hat territory! The driver is not going to put 'doorstep' unless he was in on it.

Did you say you were not going to insure the prop for more than the base value?

It was not delivered.

It was (apparently) placed on his door step.

The driver is not going to put 'doorstep' unless he was in on it.

How do you know that it wasn't delivered... just because the buyer says so?

Yes. The best you have (3rd hand as you have not bothered to check for yourself 🙄 ) is it was plonked close to the delivery address. Recipient 'might' have picked it up but you have no proof of that sadly.

This/all information has come from the buyer, not from collectplus - I've had no contact with collectplus.

Dear god - get a grip. You selected CP, their contract is with you. You put the item in their care. And you have left the running around to the buyer and got as far as moaning on a forum without even making contact with the company you subcontracted to finish the job for you yet.

Sorry, you are not helping yourself here. Man up and take some responsibility.

Why should I refund him just because he says the package wasn't delivered? - that really would be naive.

What is naïve is not realising Paypal will just take the money from you and give it back to him. You cannot prove he received it and it is 100% your problem to deal with and lose out on.

You cannot prove he received it and it is 100% your problem to deal with and lose out on.

I agree with Sharkbait here - he used an Ebay provided service and the Ebay provided service says it was delivered so surely it is now the buyers problem? How could the seller claim on insurance for an item lost in the post when the postal service used says it was delivered?

Well it's not black and white from either point of view, but the OP should have been in touch with the courier.

I predict his/her classifieds adverts will be quiet in future.

I'd be interested in the outcome of all this 🙂

I predict his/her classifieds adverts will be quiet in future.

but the OP should have been in touch with the courier.

I've decided the last things I sold on ebay will be the last.

There is just too much risk involved and then all the hassle keeping the buyers happy so you don't get bad feedback. It feels like you have to jump through hoops chasing couriers and troublesome buyers for too little reward.

I'll just use gumtree and face-to-face sales in future. Put something on keenly priced and it's usually gone quickly with no hassle or fees.

Based on my own experienced of ebay once the dust settles I think the OP is going to be £160 out-of-pocket.

You think? I can imagine the conversation:
me: Hi, I'd like to make a claim for an item that's been lost
CP: Ok, what's the tracking number?
me: [gives tracking number]
CP: That item was delivered three weeks ago
me: yes, I know but I'd still like to make a claim
CP: yeah, right, but you see we've delivered the package to the addressee.
me: yes I can see that... but I'd still like to make a claim
CP: Goodbye

He's now contacted Collectplus who say that it was left on the doorstep [b]and that I should contact them to start a claim[/b]. I didn't pay for the extra insurance so I think it's only covered for £50.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong but the way you write this it sounds like the buyer has been told you need to contact them to start a claim. So why do you think the conversation will go as you think? And why did you mention it being covered by any amount if you are now adamant delivery is considered made and they would laugh at you if you tried to make a claim?

If i were the buyer and the courier left it on the doorstep and it got nicked, I'd pursue it via the small claims process. I think you'd loose as the court is unlikely to think that leaving it on a doorstep means delivery. And the courier is acting on behalf of you...

Actually he cannot prove that he has not received it.

He shouldn't have to, you can't prove a negative. You should be able to prove it has been delivered. At the moment you can't because, in your own words:

I've had no contact with collectplus.

Why the hell not!? it's you that contracted them to deliver your parcel, the fact that the buyer has contacted them already is neither here nor there.

The buyer should have contacted you and *you* should have said "I'm terribly sorry, I'll look into this for you" and contacted the courier.

You then go from there based on what you find out from the company you contracted to deliver your parcel.

It may still turn out he's trying to scam you, but you need to do your bit for sure. It might be that he really is the unlucky sod who is sitting at home £210 out of pocket with no item because *your* courier failed to deliver.

He could well be on propellertrackworld moaning about how he's paid some guy for an item that's not turned up and the seller isn't doing their bit to sort it out.

You should be able to prove it has been delivered

I can... the tracking says it's been delivered.... or is that not enough?

I wouldn't say so.

I can... the tracking says it's been delivered.... or is that not enough?

I thought you said that the buyer told you it was left in the porch, does your tracking say that?

And you still haven't said if there's a signature (assuming not) so buyer can quite legitimately challenge your claim.

At the moment it sounds like you're assuming the buyer is a scammer, and not taking any steps yourself to contact the courier to find out any more. If the buyer said the courier told them it was left unattended then the [i]least [/i]you could do is contact the courier to verify that.

I may come across like a dog with a bone on this but I have been in the exact situation your buyer is in on a couple of occasions, where I have purchased something and the item has not arrived.

In one case I contacted the seller and they did the decent thing, refunded me and took it up with their courier, I don't actually know what happened in the end, but as far as I'm concerned that's the end of it, I bought something, I never saw it so I quite rightly got refunded.

In the other case I contacted the seller who replied with basically the same as you 'tracking says it was delivered' and then stone-walled me. I had to open a PP dispute and he said the same to PP, he provided a copy+paste from the tracking which said it was 'left in secure location'. I Then had to spend days arguing that there was no secure location outside my address, that I hadn't agreed to that and that even if the item was 'delivered' it wasn't delivered 'to me' or an authorised person acting on my behalf and that it was his issue to sort out. Eventually got accused of taking the item and trying to scam him. Fortunately I got my money back through paypal.

I wouldn't say so.

Try telling that to the HMRC, police etc - posting a letter/notice (even ones that are not tracked) is enough to assume it has been delivered - try claiming you didn't receive a notice for speeding and you would be bang out of luck.

I'm sure there are many other examples of things that are not the same.

In this case, the buyer contracted the seller to supply and deliver the item. Imagine buying something from Amazon that didn't turn up, then Amazon passing the buck saying "tough luck, take it up with the courier". Do you think that would wash?

I can... the tracking says it's been delivered.... or is that not enough?

No, it is not. What exactly does it say?
It wasn't signed for and it was not there when buyer arrived home. No way is that the buyers problem in any way whatsoever.

You need to put yourself in the buyers position as I and others have pointed out.

Buyer knows the system and arrived home to see package left unsigned for on the doorstep, he's then sold the item on, then claimed it hasn't arrived three weeks later knowing he will get a refund.

He's made a few hundred quidz and you will get your £50 compo.

DTA man, DTA

I thought you said that the buyer told you it was left in the porch, does your tracking say that?

For “item not received” cases, if sellers post the item within their stated handling time and provide a valid proof of delivery for the item, eBay is likely to decide in their favour.

“Proof of delivery” is online documentation from a postal company that includes all of the following:

A status of “delivered” (or equivalent in the country to which the item was delivered) and the date of delivery.
The recipient’s address, showing at least the city/county or postcode (or international equivalent).
Signature Confirmation for transactions that total £750 or more.

just ring eBay, explain it all

Sharkbait wins.

That's shoddy, to say the least.

What's shoddy?

What's shoddy?

Buyer should have contacted you sooner. I usually ask for feedback if item is showing as delivered.

Wasn't there a buyer on here who lost out when the courier handed over some expensive electronic item to some passer by who signed for it.E bay said it had been signed for and sided with the seller so the buyer had to pursue it with the courier.

What does "Delivered to customer" mean? That the courier left it outside their house.

The customer has not signed for it/accepted delivery have they. I had the same happen to me a few weeks back where the courier apparently threw the parcel over my fence but it was stated as "Delivered"

Guessing it was stolen so called company I bought it from and got another one sent to me next day.

Yep I'm hoping eBay decide in buyers favour 😀

Why are you going to close your PayPal account though?

Wasn't there a buyer on here who lost out when the courier handed over some expensive electronic item to some passer by who signed for it

Related to OP issue, last week I was waiting at traffic lights passing through a posh village. There was a row of nice cottages right by the road. Several had parcels left by their front doors in full view. Can see how things do go missing. And no I didn't.

Update.... He's got the parcel.
It was delivered to a neighbour who'd forgotten about it apparently.

Despite eBay sending an email stating that it has been dispatched and with the tracking number, the buyer hadn't bothered to look at when it was going to be delivered.

How convenient.

Despite eBay sending an email stating that it has been dispatched and with the tracking number, the buyer hadn't bothered to look at when it was going to be delivered.

So basically they did nothing wrong at all and all your suspicions about them were spurious and unfounded. And yet you still seem to you want to attach an element of blame to them. 🙂

Update.... He's got the parcel.
It was delivered to a neighbour who'd forgotten about it apparently.

So the courier really covered themselves in glory. Left in porch=delivered to neighbour. Good thing their information wouldn't be used in judgement on anything silly like who is hundreds of pounds out of pocket.

I'm glad it's sorted.

For future reference: pay for the bloody insurance you skinflint. (-:

TBH, I can sympathise. Our local Yodel delivery blokes have several times interpreted "safe place" as "somewhere in the same postcode."

Thing is though, as the seller there are two contracts in play. One between you and the buyer, and another between you and the courier. Had this have gone sideways, the buyer defers to you as the seller to sort it out, it's your problem. You then take it up with the courier and contest their notions of "delivered" and "safe place."

The buyer -might- be a scammer, or might equally well be some poor sod wondering why he's sent a couple of hundred quid to a complete stranger and is going going "oh, it says it's been delivered so I've done my bit, bollocks to you lol." Meanwhile he's over on proptrackworld.com going "have I been ripped off" and armchair experts are going "yes, credit card chargeback, ebay dispute." You've no way of knowing, but it's 100% your responsibility to ensure that the goods arrive and 100% your responsibility to resolve it if they claim it hasn't.

Oh Cougar, cougar you are talking like an old fart with your 'responsibilities' and 'contracts'. That's not how it goes down these days.

Number 1 - [u]all[/u] buyers are on the scam unless you are the buyer then it's the sellers that are the wronguns.

Number 2 - Have you got a screen shot good enough to slide through the ebay scam police ruling? If it say's delivered you're golden.

So the courier really covered themselves in glory. Left in porch=delivered to neighbour.

Maybe, I've had cards through the door saying "left with the neighbour" when it was actually behind the gate and vice versa. Or maybe the buyer found it behind a pair of wellies in the porch and covered his embarrassment by claiming it was with a neighbour - I found a small 2 week old parcel for the wife behind a flowerpot in my front garden once. Low value item she'd forgotten about and hadn't chased. We'll never know what really happened in this case.

I'm glad for sharkbait it worked out, I've no idea what the law says but my sympathy was always with him!

How big were the wellies?
[img] [/img]

Hopefully I'm not too late here but most of the posts illustrate that myhermes and the like have a fundamental problem with their delivery system which is that THERE IS NO MEANS FOR THE BUYER TO COLLECT THE PARCEL FROM THEIR DEPOT.

Sorry for the caps, but they seem wholly ignorant of the fact that in order for a delivery system to work, buyers need the reassurance that the item is stored somewhere safe to collect within a reasonable time.

Royal Mail, FedEx and ups all offer this facility as it saves them having to return the item, should home delivery be unsuitable.

I pity the bloke from myhermes who has to make the deliveries. Personally, I'd rather they left a card, saying where it can be picked up, rather than repeatedly trying to make a delivery when the buyers out. It's a waste of everyone's time.

The only time I'd use myhermes etc is when sending an item to an actual business...office hours, receptionist, etc.