Ignoring the rules is what stinks. Yes wild camping will have very little extra risk but the only things allowed are "Self-catering accommodation and second homes (without shared facilities) permitted – 3 July"
Now if you think that means wild camping is OK then thats a very odd interpretation
I am angry - probably over reacting to you 'cos you are the only one to lash out at 🙂 I am angry because I have done my best to follow the spirit of the rules and the letter as much as I can. Because I work in healthcare may also be a part of it because I see the edges of what people not obeying the rules does. Also I have not seen my parents for 4 months and still will not be able to for a while whilst obeying the rules, I have just had a two week holiday that I could do nothing with apart from ride the same local routes when I should have been up on the west coast camping.
So yes - maybe you copped just my general frustration
This does seem to be a very British problem. Here in Glasgow, the litter and attitude to just casually dropping litter, is horrific.
It does happen in other countries too (Rome is a craphole for example) but not in all.
You think wild camping will still be against the rules come Friday and I think not
wild camping is not self contained ergo not allowed until at least the 15th. Currently there is no suggestion from the FC that wild camping will be allowed even after the 15th either (this obviously can change). Car parks are shut, toilets are shut, bins are not being emptied.
Your attitude is pretty poor towards the lockdown measures TBH
Out of interest, what laws are being broken in terms of wild camping?
The Scottish Outdoor Access Code is the main thing you need to know. It covers the various definitions of responsibility, including stuff about littering, fires etc
After that, it's the case that most arrive by car and park on private land (e.g. FLS car park) without permission so they are in breach of Road Traffic Law.
Donald - unfortunately because of my own situation I cannot unless I cycle a 90 mile round trip in a day
Well me and nobeer are separately going to Aviemore self catering mid July with our families, if we can’t shit in the woods we may have to use Scotroutes facilities ... 😜
Donald – unfortunately because of my own situation I cannot unless I cycle a 90 mile round trip in a day
Not against the rules then, just inconvenient for you. If only you had (access to) a car, or a motorbike...
My wife can't go to see her mother because of the ferry restrictions and it's a bit far/exposed for the packraft.
Out of interest, what laws are being broken in terms of wild camping? Genuinely, it’s not something I really do, so have never looked into it.
Rather than me summarising it here's the relevant stuff. https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/practical-guide-all/camping
The Scottish Outdoor Access Code is the main thing you need to know. It covers the various definitions of responsibility, including stuff about littering, fires etc
After that, it’s the case that most arrive by car and park on private land (e.g. FLS car park) without permission so they are in breach of Road Traffic Law
I was meaning wild camping, like you bivvying during lockdown (though that seems to have escaped TJs ire 🤣) rather than the littering and shittering ****wits.
The Access Code says:
Access rights extend to wild camping. This type of camping is lightweight, done in small numbers and only for two or three nights in any one place. You can camp in this way wherever access rights apply, but help to avoid causing problems for local people and land managers by not camping in enclosed fields of crops or farm animals and by keeping well away from buildings, roads or historic structures. Take extra care to avoid disturbing deer stalking or grouse shooting. If you wish to camp close to a house or building, seek the owner's permission. Leave no trace by:
- taking away all your litter
- removing all traces of your tent pitch and of any open fire (follow the guidance for lighting fires)
- not causing any pollution.
wild camping is not self contained ergo not allowed until at least the 15th. Currently there is no suggestion from the FC that wild camping will be allowed even after the 15th either (this obviously can change). Car parks are shut, toilets are shut, bins are not being emptied.
My wild camping is self contained and the FC are not the body who ok it so I think we may be talking about different types of wild camping.
Your attitude is pretty poor towards the lockdown measures TBH
I'm curious about what I've said to create this impression because I've pretty much followed them to the letter. I've stayed in my local area, haven't driven much more than 5 miles for any purpose and haven't entered other people's homes or stayed overnight away from my own home. About the only thing I've done that might draw criticism is bike rides that took me 30 or 40 miles away from home but that's very much a moot point whether that was wrong and let he who is without sin on that one cast the first stone!
So yes – maybe you copped just my general frustration
Fair enough TJ these are tough times.
I'm not having a pop TJ. But since the rules have relaxed you can visit your parents. Perhaps you might need to hire a car or something but the rules aren't stopping you.
And I don't think the rules prohibit my English cousins from coming to a family funeral in Scotland in the next couple of weeks.
Donald - you should check the rules on funerals - I am not certain but I think still very heavily restricted
As for visiting my parents - they are 45 miles away. They are shielding. I am high risk of transmitting it. I do not need to see them apart from their morale. Maybe in a couple of weeks it will be OK but right now - not on IMO
You can attend a funeral service if you are a household member of the person who has died or if you are a close family member of the person who has died. If no household or close family members are attending the funeral, then you can attend if you are a friend of the person who has died.
I'm not aware that this has changed since lockdown. My wife couldn't go to her brothers funeral an hours drive away.
As for visiting my parents – they are 45 miles away. They are shielding. I am high risk of transmitting it. I do not need to see them apart from their morale. Maybe in a couple of weeks it will be OK but right now – not on IMO
Again - circumstances, not rules/guidance.
I have not seen my frail elderly parents for 4 months now. Because I cannot do so and stay within the rules.
Your words.
Sure Scotroutes? I thought the stay local applied unless there was a need to visit them ( for a bit longer)
Edit - in reply to yours - I think I am supposed to be more careful because of my high risk of catching it / transmitting it?
I'm sure
Ta
I( was discussing this with them the other day and aim to do so soon
Are people allowed to travel to meet friends and family outside?
It is acceptable to travel outside your local area to meet members of another household in an outdoor space such as a private garden, but you should use your judgement about how far to travel.
Can I have friends or family visit in my garden?
Up to three households can meet in a garden with up to a recommended maximum of eight people at once. Physical distancing should be followed between households at all times. We know that some people will only have access to their back garden through their house, so in this case, if friends or family are coming round to spend time in your garden, they can go through your house but must not touch anything and should go straight to the garden.
Will visitors be able to use my bathroom?
Yes. If members of another household are going to visit you and need to use your toilet, you should ensure appropriate cleaning materials are available. You should also provide either a hand towel for each visiting household or paper towels and a safe disposal option.
Anyone using your toilet should avoid touching surfaces with their hands as much as possible, wipe any surfaces that they do touch with antibacterial wipes, wash their hands thoroughly with soap and water for at least 20 seconds afterwards, dry their hands with a freshly laundered towel or a paper towel which they should dispose of in a closed bin
but you should use your judgement about how far to travel.
Thats one of the bits that concerns me
Obviously if I needed to see them I would go but 45 miles for a social visit seems to me to stretch that
Maybe over cautious on my behalf but as Dad is gonna die if he gets it and I am supposed to be careful because of my work.................
For personal reasons I'm familiar with the rules on funerals. They say that you can attend the funeral of a close family member. They don't prevent you crossing the border.
Again I'm not having a pop, you are being very responsible in not seeing you parents, I sympathise.
But other people aren't in the same situation and if the law says they can visit or attend funerals then - well - they can.
Fair enough Donald - I did say check as I was not sure. I just know somone who couldn't attend a funeral and also someone who had a very limited attendance but thats all I know
I posted earlier in the thread that self-contained probably meant wild camping was probably OK from the 3rd and a couple of people posted to say that they agreed.
The problem with this sort of thing is that you can’t really expect everyone to read every line of the guidelines. Lots of people will see self-catering or self-contained and think “yes that describes my camping”. The government must know this and have presumable factored it in.
It’s not my thing, but if some person wants to go out to the middle of nowhere and pitch a tent (on their own) or lay out their bivouac I’m not going to get too upset about it.
It might help some folks perspective on this to remember that getting it wrong can lead to someone's death.
The rules are there to try to prevent that, but ultimately it requires each of us to act with concern for the welfare/safety of others who we may or may not know.
I'm sure the first person on Bournemouth beach felt they were doing the right thing....
You say it’s obvious that this includes wild camping but I’d say it’s more obvious that wild camping has no shared facilities so it’s fine from Friday.
Can I go wild camping?
Not yet. In Phase 2 we are still requiring people to stay at home, except for limited purposes. In Phase 3 we hope to be able to be able to allow leisure travel and tourism activities, including wild camping.
Phase 3 review happens 9th July so you most definitely won't be able to go this Friday within the current regulations.
TJ- 5 mile guideline does not apply to visiting family with the caveat that unless you are bubbling with a solo you can’t stay overnight ergo a reasonable day trip is permitted. For high risk and shielding you’d be outside and socially distant and careful. Much like me having a beer with my sister who runs an ICU on Wed night, although to be fair I already gave her Covid 😂
Wild camping by the rules may be permitted post 15th July BUT usual rules apply around access guides etc. Certainly camping right now is a no No but is being quite widely flouted which p1sses me off a bit. Saying that I have to go to Aviemore for business on Tue so will chuck my bike in and go early for a ride beforehand, I’ll not spit or touch anything I promise 👍
Basically, the general population needs to not be a d1ck and we’ll get through this.
It might help some folks perspective on this to remember that getting it wrong can lead to someone’s death.
The rules are there to try to prevent that, but ultimately it requires each of us to act with concern for the welfare/safety of others who we may or may not know.
Well said.
Phase 3 review happens 9th July so you most definitely won’t be able to go this Friday within the current regulations.
Well I will freely admit to now being totally confused by this and I don't generally consider myself to be one of the hard of understanding. From a situation of relative consistency we now have a set of bizarre and somewhat contradictory guidelines that most people are going to struggle to get their heads around. From Friday I can go to my second home or self catering accommodation but I can't go camp out in the middle of nowhere on my own. I can spend as long as I like out of doors as long as I don't camp. I won't be able to camp until after I can sit in a pub beer garden. I suspect that the specific inclusion of wild camping in the links you gave is not about risk of transmission or about the kind of wild camping I would do but about preventing the kind of hordes descending on Loch Morlich etc that people have been voicing concerns about.
So it's not so much about the rules but that they simply don't apply to what ever it is that you want to do.
Was the same about the distance thing iirc when you wanted to go run up some hills that were not near you.
So it’s not so much about the rules but that they simply don’t apply to what ever it is that you want to do.
Was the same about the distance thing iirc when you wanted to go run up some hills that were not near you
I'll assume from that that you haven't been more than 5 miles from your house either?
Did you click on the links I was commenting on? Do you think they are consistent and easily understood?
Well I will freely admit to now being totally confused by this and I don’t generally consider myself to be one of the hard of understanding. From a situation of relative consistency we now have a set of bizarre and somewhat contradictory guidelines that most people are going to struggle to get their heads around.
Just as happened when the 5-mile "limit" was introduced after we'd been in lockdown and were allowed to exercise from home but with no maximum distance stipulated. What we also have are various statements made to the media outwith the law/guidance that cause further confusion.
I’ll assume from that that you haven’t been more than 5 miles from your house either?
In a vehicle for anything other than shopping. No I've not.
I've not traveled to ride my MTB at all never mind more than 5 miles.
I have started road rides for exercise from home which according to Scottish cycling guidance(in consultation with the gov) is permitted so long as I have not traveled 5 miles to start my ride.... And I waited until lock down was lifted to even do that. I didn't ride outside through out the period of full lock down.
Which is very different from screw you guys that rules stupid doesn't apply to me.
Can I go wild camping?
Not yet. In Phase 2 we are still requiring people to stay at home, except for limited purposes. In Phase 3 we hope to be able to be able to allow leisure travel and tourism activities, including wild camping.
According to that the reason you can’t wild camp in phase 2 is because it doesn’t allow “leisure travel” yet the relaxations on the 3rd specifically do allow that. I was surprised that they announced those relaxations ahead of the review on the 9th but presumably cases are dropping faster than they expected.
There is a big difference between Bournemouth beach and somewhere you have to hike five miles to reach. I accept that we are all guilty of thinking that nobody else knows our secret spot and I’m not defending the idiots on loch Morlich. But if you can travel for leisure, you can exercise as long as you like (socially distanced of course) and you can stop during exercise then I’m not going to get upset if you choose to have a nap during your stop. As I say, it’s not my thing, but I get that wild camping may be important to somebody else’s mental health.
Well I don't follow rules just because I'm told to, it's not in my nature. I however totally understand why we've been asked to stay local for the last three months and I have by and large stuck to this. The five mile advice was given so people understood that local didn't mean 250 miles. If you've made your life or the life of your loved ones a misery because you weren't prepared to go fifteen miles then or even forty as a one off then that's your choice.
I'll be heading up north in my van for a couple of nights as soon after the 3rd July as possible. I will be completely self contained including toilet facilities. I will go somewhere where no one else is, won't meet or kill anyone. Sorry if that pisses off the forum traffic wardens...
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Which is very different from screw you guys that rules stupid doesn’t apply to me
This is very far from what I've been saying but polarising what others are saying and setting up straw men has been absolutely standard practice in all of the discussions around Covid regulations. There are plenty of reasonable, safe, defensible stances between "Follow the regs to the letter or we're all gonna die" and "screw the lot of you". You are free to think I'm a prick with no regard for others but I can assure you my conscience is clear. On lockdown anyway, there's plenty of other stuff I'm not so sure about... 🙂
if you can travel for leisure, you can exercise as long as you like (socially distanced of course) and you can stop during exercise then I’m not going to get upset if you choose to have a nap during your stop.
Apparently, the virus is a million times worse after dark (or something).
I have started road rides for exercise from home which according to Scottish cycling guidance(in consultation with the gov) is permitted so long as I have not traveled 5 miles to start my ride….
Which is back to my point about confusing and contradictory guidance. Still, I suppose that as long as you started, and finished, every trip to and from your home without the use of a motor vehicle then all's well eh? 😉
Just as happened when the 5-mile “limit” was introduced after we’d been in lockdown and were allowed to exercise from home but with no maximum distance stipulated. What we also have are various statements made to the media outwith the law/guidance that cause further confusion.
It's a mess, which is yet another reason why giving others a hard time because they're not doing exactly what you think they should do is not on. Not saying you're doing that Scotroutes!
It's also why I've been saying for a few weeks that we need to move on pretty rapidly from advice of this nature (you can do X but not Y unless Z etc) to stuff that's more easily understood and sustainable in the long term.
It’s a mess, which is yet another reason why giving others a hard time because they’re not doing exactly what you think they should do is not on.
PURITY SPIRAL!!!
Which is back to my point about confusing and contradictory guidance. Still, I suppose that as long as you started, and finished, every trip to and from your home without the use of a motor vehicle then all’s well eh? 😉
What's contradictory about it ? The fact that the sport has a governing body who consults with the government to assertain what is and isn't permitted and issues guidance based on that.....much like the self appointed law of MTB the dmbis did for MTB.
"General Cycling Guidance
You may exercise outdoors as many times each day as you wish and for as long as you want. Cycling activity should only be on routes that you know well and are within your ability level.
Permitted to travel short distances (broadly within 5 miles) to start your ride. However, we continue to advise that you start your ride from your home. "
No mention of where it finishes maybe in a tent on the Cairngorms
I do not see anything contradictory in the five miles. Initially it was exercise from home only. then it was loosened to you can drive five miles to start your exercise. Not 5 miles to do your exercise this was at the same time that angling and similar was allowed. so if like my mum you can only walk 3 or 4 miles she does now have the ability to drive a bit so she can vary the walk
What’s contradictory about it ?
The 5 mile limit wasn't in the Lockdown regs but appeared in the Phase 1 guidelines so that was confusing/contradictory. It was also unclear whether it meant you couldn't drive more than 5miles or that you couldn't be more than 5 miles from your house. Initially I thought it was to do with driving but the actual guidance was not entirely clear on that. Also, all other things being equal, why is it any different to drive 40 miles from your house and ride 40 miles from your house?
The five miles was a losening not tightening. Its not the limit of your travel during exercise - it allowed you to drive five miles to start your exercise
edit - crossed posts - perfectly clear to me
Initially exercise from home only. Then drive five miles to start your exercise. there never was a five mile limit on how far you could go during your exercise just a suggestion to keep it local so as to be self reliant
The five miles was a losening not tightening. Its not the limit of your travel during exercise – it allowed you to drive five miles to start your exercise
And yet even before the relaxation to phase one we were told that you could drive a 'reasonable distance' to exercise. The figure only came in with phase 1.
Not as far as I was aware. Itr was exercise from home only
Bah
Gettting bogged down in detail;
Shall we just agree to do our best to stick with the spirit of the rules?
