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SK I'm pretty sure it'll be something to do with safety certificates, not allowed to stay in the car on Arran ferries at least.
Can you not just have everyone sitting in their cars for the duration of a crossing?
Safety regulations. Cars cannot be occupied when sailing.
I hope.youre not in Edinburg
Nope that’s schools from east ren, Renfrewshire and Glasgow.
Our powers that be aren’t rushing the blended learning plan out and it’s a week of school left
I'm not going to spend too much time thinking about how to do blended learning because I think that by August it might not be a thing.
I see the Cairngorms NP have been posting on FB telling people not to wild camp in the park. Unless it was some fake park account my colleague shared!
Safety regulations. Cars cannot be occupied when sailing.
I have wondered on the details of this. I’ve always just guessed it’s distance to evacuation points?
Email from School today.
S3 & S2 will get 1 day per week in school
All others will get 2 days.
My S2/S3 has had no live or even recorded face time with any of her teachers since lockdown.
My S4/S5 has had 2 sessions of live face time with only his physics teacher since lockdown.
School-based paid for music tuition which is usually 1 or 2 to 1 max hasn't happened either, yet private music tuition has somehow continued on skype/facetime/zoom almost uniterrupted.
It's been shockingly poor by any stretch of the imagination. I dread to think how some of the vulnerable / lower achieving kids at the school have been managing.
It’s been shockingly poor by any stretch of the imagination. I dread to think how some of the vulnerable / lower achieving kids at the school have been managing.
They haven't been is the short answer.
There's massive variation in how schools have dealt with this and it largely boils down to the quality of the senior leadership team in the school. Both in terms of their abilities and how well they've been able to cope personally.
Between my school and my wife's school I've probably not seen quite the full spectrum from good to bad but there's certainly a big difference.
My S2/S3 has had no live or even recorded face time with any of her teachers since lockdown
To show the other side of that, I ran a live Google Meet lesson on Friday for a whole year group (c100 pupils) and only 9 turned up.
Those 9 loved it and I'd still have done it if only one turned up but it does illustrate how poor engagement has been.
I have wondered on the details of this. I’ve always just guessed it’s distance to evacuation points?
Id imagine its a legacy of the zeebrugge ferry disaster, where the car deck flooded sharpish, and even on a smallish ferry like the Arran one, you're then 4 flights of stairs away from lifecraft.
On our inter-Island ferries in Shetland you are officially only allowed to stay in your car/on deck if the crossing is less than 30mins. In practise no one cares.
None of ours have had face to face (1 in the academy other 3 in primary) My wife brought this up early door and got a line from the teacher saying that the teaching unions say they are under no obligation to do face to face teaching or even record a wee message for the kids yet some of the assignments they have asked the kids to do involve making a video of themselves about certain subjects.
bit shit if you ask me
I'd like to add though that I could never ever be a teacher!
Aye I thought SOLAS may come into it but tbh I was thinking more of nuggets who know better with their engines idling slowly asphyxiating everyone. Half hour limit sounds about right, that's usually wee open decked ferries anyway. Herald of Free Enterprise had other mitigations, can't remember what they were now, think that was to do with deck hatches and such.
Tattoos are same time as hairdressers.
None of ours have had face to face (1 in the academy other 3 in primary) My wife brought this up early door and got a line from the teacher saying that the teaching unions say they are under no obligation to do face to face teaching or even record a wee message for the kids yet some of the assignments they have asked the kids to do involve making a video of themselves about certain subjects.
bit shit if you ask me
I’d like to add though that I could never ever be a teacher!
Ours are specifically banned from turning their cameras on for "privacy" and "safeguarding" reasons. I've no idea how they've decided that Mr Jones the dodgy peado, might see another child on camera is a risk, but nobody seeing the child's mysterious bruises for several months is not...
Yup, unrecorded live chats are a no-no in my authority for the above. I am not sure if people realise that there is a rise in unsubstantiated malicious complaints about teachers.As a union rep, it is clearly a "thing" just now; a good way to get up to a 3-6 month break from a staff member you don't like with no repercussions. We record the instructions to the online lessons so the pupils can see an familiar face, but would be opening ourselves up if we did live sessions.
I've offered teams meetings lessons but no uptake, given in bge only about 25% engagement I'm not surprised. H is better engagement but they'd rather beaver away at work. My last offering is Thursday and then that's it as we'll either not need to or be in no position to next term.
We record the instructions to the online lessons so the pupils can see an familiar face, but would be opening ourselves up if we did live sessions.
Well call me naive if you like but with a combination of parental permission and cameras off if the meeting is recorded and shared I feel quite safe running live sessions.
I get your concerns but I actually find it pretty sad that teachers would be so worried about false accusations they would not do something that brings massive benefits to pupils.
It's another example of of the fear and division this pandemic has created.
The trouble with the Unions saying no one should be pressured into doing live lessons is that as well as addressing those who have real concerns about doing it it also gives a ready excuse to the naysayers and luddites of whom there are far too many still in teaching.
I would've thought live lessons is generally quite a big part of a teachers job!
I would’ve thought live lessons is generally quite a big part of a teachers job!
exactly but when my wife mentioned it it was just a wee recorded message for the kids from their teacher, nothing fancy just a how are you all this is your work for the week.
ready excuse to the naysayers and luddites of whom there are far too many still in teaching.
This was another point the reply to the Mrs raised and that was that not all are comfortable with technology. like practically every job you need to move with the times, dont think I've seen one blackboard In the school but it's full of interactive whiteboards (no idea what their real name is) if they wont record a wee message for the kids I'd loved to have seen some of them when these came on the go
Jeez, actually feeling quite lucky at this point, our primary has been quite proactive and engaged in comparison to some by the sound of it!
This is a massive problem though that needs addressing sooner rather than later. How many working days are lost to minor illness that could be worked through from home or weather? We have an entire island served by the local academy who are at the mercy of calmac over winter and nothing has ever been done to implement remote learning. It's a massive weakness in the system and something that needs closer scrutiny.
Yup, unrecorded live chats are a no-no in my authority for the above.
For what reason though? To protect the pupils (do we really think that teachers are about to start grooming their kids over the net but its ok to have them in a classroom?); to protect the teacher (in case I'm walking past in my pants?); to protect the teacher from false accusations (in which case teams does allow everything to be recorded) - false accusations of what though?
I am not sure if people realise that there is a rise in unsubstantiated malicious complaints about teachers.As a union rep, it is clearly a “thing” just now; a good way to get up to a 3-6 month break from a staff member you don’t like with no repercussions.
Complaints about quality or complaints about safeguarding?
We record the instructions to the online lessons so the pupils can see an familiar face, but would be opening ourselves up if we did live sessions.
opening yourself up to what? I think its just as important that you see the children though. The levels of engagement are poor - thats because there isn't a person at the other end - just a chatbot (albeit a human one but still basically a chat bot). I'm surprised nobody is worried about opening up to neglecting kids - come Aug/Sept someone's going to be in shit when some vulnerable kids have disappeared off the radar.
I'm not sure if whoever made these rules realises that the kids are basically spending all day on Whatsapp or similar talking (on video) to classmates anyway. If there is a risk of harm its likely in these uncontrolled groups. I've seen more child-to-child coaching/help/mentoring than I have teacher led help. Thats good - but it does feel like the rules are discouraging engagement with the one person paid to actually help them. It also means that the least advantaged children (i.e. those without internet/devices) are probably getting no support at home, some wont have seen another child or caring adult since lockdown etc...
Actually Poly; complaints about teacher assault is the usual route for the boys and suggestive language is the one by the girls All claims are quite rightly investigated, once a week in my small authority a teacher is sent home for 2/3 days. Once a month it is for 2/3 months.Total number of serious accusations prosecuted in my area last year? none. But yeah; stubborn teachers eh?
As predicted, looks like full return in august with blended learning as a plan B.
Poly +1
Actually Poly; complaints about teacher assault is the usual route for the boys and suggestive language is the one by the girls All claims are quite rightly investigated, once a week in my small authority a teacher is sent home for 2/3 days. Once a month it is for 2/3 months.Total number of serious accusations prosecuted in my area last year? none. But yeah; stubborn teachers eh?
So a risk assessment should show the risk as very low and not a reason not to allow video lessons. It's all about balance and it seems to be too far the wrong way - maybe because the unions are better at negotiation than those tasked with safeguarding vulnerable kids.
That is quite an interesting view on it,but crack on. Bonus points for use of vulnerable kids.
That is quite an interesting view on it,but crack on. Bonus points for use of vulnerable kids.
Which bits are you struggling with? You do understand the concept of risk assessment and that you don't have to remove all risks?
Can we please, please, please put up some sort of border control between the Solway and the Tweed?
Swinney basically saying back to normal in August. Good much to do. Hoping school now makes a decision as to which date they will say plan A or plan B.
No mention of nurseries? Could really do with seeing something about them
I'm not struggling with understanding what you are saying tennis shoes,just choosing not to agree with your idea of acceptable risk.
So a risk assessment should show the risk as very low and not a reason not to allow video lessons.
Plenty of teachers have essentially done exactly that and just cracked on with live lessons. I don't think anyone should be pressured into doing it if they aren't comfortable with it but blanket bans based on vague child protection/potential complaints against staff reasons are definitely knee jerk reactions and often come from people who are uncomfortable with the tech themselves rather than any legitimate concerns.
The fact that lots of teachers are doing it and authorities / schools allowing it really tells you all you need to know about the level of risk.
Swinney basically saying back to normal in August. Good much to do. Hoping school now makes a decision as to which date they will say plan A or plan B.
I’ve only heard a wee snippet of what he said, but it seemed very vague. Somewhere between “possible but not certain” appears to cover quite a range. I cannot believe how much positive approval the SNP receive on here.
At least it means we won’t need to worry about social distancing to the same extent over the Summer holidays.
At least it means we won’t need to worry about social distancing to the same extent over the Summer holidays.
Or maybe the exact opposite if we want schools to go back full time?
It was very much dependent on R staying low.
Or maybe the exact opposite if we want schools to go back full time?
Maybe, who knows? This feels like a huge U-turn based on popular pressure and not ‘the science’.
Are beer gardens officially open yet in Scotland? Noticed a local pub serving carry out pints and a nearby greenspace with picnic tables being used as an unofficial beer garden. First draught IPA in 3 months!! All socially distanced of course.
It was very much dependent on R staying low.
What was?
And what is ‘low’?
Are beer gardens officially open yet in Scotland? Noticed a local pub serving carry out pints and a nearby greenspace with picnic tables being used as an unofficial beer garden. First draught IPA in 3 months!! All socially distanced of course.
Takeaway is permitted. As long as it leaves the premises, it is takeaway.
We had a similar situation here in Aviemore at the weekend. The Old Bridge Inn was selling takeaway beers and folk were able to use the car park opposite where they have some benches, though the license doesn't cover that land. This had been agreed with both the Licensing Board and the local Police. It was fine in the afternoon but became very busy in the evening. As a result, the benches are now "out of bounds" and folk are expected to take the drinks further away.
It's a bit of a weird one. I guess that there would be nothing to stop two nearby pubs selling takeaway drinks and then letting each others customers use their land for consuming them on.
This feels like a huge U-turn based on popular pressure and not ‘the science’.
I think there's an element of both to it. It's certainly going to depend on what the science looks like in August i.e. the R0 and whether there's any better/new evidence of the role of children / schools in transmission.
Re Video lessons: IIRC the advice from the unions was not to do it until your LA had identified a platform that they were satisfied was safe and secure. At this point there were some concerns where a Social Work Zoom conference had been Zoom-bombed twice with graphic child abuse images. I agree that there are some naysayers and luddites, and I also agree that pupil uptake has been poor. One colleague of mine live-streamed for an hour and not a single pupil out of 30 showed up.
Many pupils are very reluctant to get involved in online video lessons, especially if they are joining from home. If you were a teenage girl would you want to let the local knucklehead in your class see inside your kitchen/bedroom? Can you imagine the comments/bullying that could follow?
My advice to kids/parents has been get involved, but don't feel that you need to activate your own video, unless you want to, mute your mic if you want, but do actually turn up. Uptake has generally been poor. I think the only class with universal uptake has been AH Maths.
I think that
Plan A = Full return, if safe
Plan B - Blended
is a good plan. Now we just need to make sure, as a society, we can deliver it. And this relies on the actions of all, not just teachers/pupils/parents.
I think there’s an element of both to it. It’s certainly going to depend on what the science looks like in August i.e. the R0 and whether there’s any better/new evidence of the role of children / schools in transmission.
Indeed, I would just be happier if they made it clearer now what will and what will not be acceptable. Ie provide numbers. Because it feels like the decision has been made already.
Maybe, who knows? This feels like a huge U-turn based on popular pressure and not ‘the science’
blended learning is a worst case scenario. Teachers and schools have to prepare for that. This isn't a U-turn. It all depends on how the infection rates are.
oldtennisshoes
Subscriber
@duckman – thankfully others
Not sure what you base that on, certainly not this thread or your own opinion just two pages ago. But crack on!
Indeed, I would just be happier if they made it clearer now what will and what will not be acceptable. Ie provide numbers. Because it feels like the decision has been made already.
Posted 1 hour ago
As things stand just now Gauss, it is dependent on the R rate in the next six weeks. Blended learning is a scenario designed to get children into school based on the virus still being active. Nobody wants it and everybody thinks it is a half baked solution. Every school has by now measured every room and worked out how many pupils can fit in. Desks have been moved etc to distance children. So for example my room that crams in 32 first years..takes 10. I think the Scotgov are doing the right thing in aiming for full opening but best to have a plan B. A read of this thread will suggest that the blended approach is better than the current model. A lot now depends on us being sensible for the next 6 weeks.
Not sure what you base that on, certainly not this thread or your own opinion just two pages ago. But crack on!
The evidence that some schools are using video tech to teach. What am I supposed to be cracking on with?
Blended learning is a scenario designed to get children into school based on the virus still being active. Nobody wants it and everybody thinks it is a half baked solution.
I think you'll find that given the choice of the kids staying at home or them being given the option of a blended learning option, there are large numbers that do want it. Probably more parents than folk in education though.
Selective quoting eh? Read my last 2 sentences.But then your last sentence says everything anybody needs to know about your view of teachers so why wouldn't you selectively quote?
So when do you think my parents will be able to drive up from south of the border and stay in my house? I’m hoping it’s soon but it’s also quite nice that mother in law can’t come up from south of the border and stay in my house
I reckon 4th July will be the date things unlock here to the same as England. Think of all the weegies going to Carlisle for a haircut 💇♀️
your last sentence says everything anybody needs to know about your view of teachers so why wouldn’t you selectively quote?
Well you just said yourself "Nobody wants it and everybody thinks it is a half baked solution" so what is he supposed to base his views on teachers opinions on? Yes it's better than what we have right now but that doesn't negate either of your points.
Selective quoting? I'm simply drawing out the point I have issue with; the unfortunate use of Nobody.
I'm just a frustrated parent who wants the best for my children; well all children really, as do 99.9% of the adult population. Some teachers and school administrators just seem to be willing and able to do more than others in making things work.
So when do you think my parents will be able to drive up from south of the border and stay in my house?
9th July at the earliest
Yeah,Squirrel and tennis; if you read my whole post I go on to say that..
I think the Scotgov are doing the right thing in aiming for full opening but best to have a plan B. A read of this thread will suggest that the blended approach is better than the current model.
But you both seem to be ignoring this, wonder why? As I said, selective quoting.
I reckon 4th July will be the date things unlock here to the same as England.
I hope not, that press conference from bawjaws was an embarrassment. They're turning the tap on, and warning of still the need to 'mitigate', a word that most of the folks that are hanging out for the pub won't even understand.
I'm with Scotroutes, get that bloody wall built.
As things stand just now Gauss, it is dependent on the R rate in the next six weeks. Blended learning is a scenario designed to get children into school based on the virus still being active. Nobody wants it and everybody thinks it is a half baked solution. Every school has by now measured every room and worked out how many pupils can fit in. Desks have been moved etc to distance children. So for example my room that crams in 32 first years..takes 10. I think the Scotgov are doing the right thing in aiming for full opening but best to have a plan B. A read of this thread will suggest that the blended approach is better than the current model. A lot now depends on us being sensible for the next 6 weeks.
The R number is not a constant and varies. As far as I am aware it is not easy to measure, particularly over a short period, and I presume for smaller groups within larger populations. What will be a satisfactory R number for all pupils to return to schools in Scotland? What happens if the R number within schools becomes say 2, but Scotland overall has an R number of 0.5? And surely the percentage of the population with the infection must also be a factor, as R is lower in part due to schools being closed.
Plan B of blended learning. Maybe there is little option in this, but I fear for children’s education it is likely to be worse than what we have now. I cannot see how there will be time to teach the pupils in front of you and provide quality work for the others working from home. It has taken all my time to provide the best learning experience for pupils working from home, normally there is no time when they are in school. Essentially there will be twice the workload. I fear the quality of teaching will (understandably) be compromised.
The 2m social distance rule looks likely to be ended for schools. And yet the risk is far higher if you are facing the infected person. Not ideal to be stood all day facing 30 pupils, many incapable of covering their mouths when coughing and sneezing. I heard today “it’s well ventilated, it has a window”, and yet I work in a school with windows in the classrooms, that have what feels like no through air.
I am biased I know, essentially I do not want to die. I realise that schools cannot be shut forever. I would however like to be led by the science, along with an open and honest discussion of how we move forward.
Yeah,Squirrel and tennis; if you read my whole post I go on to say that..
I think the Scotgov are doing the right thing in aiming for full opening but best to have a plan B. A read of this thread will suggest that the blended approach is better than the current model.
Selective quoting 🤔 😉
You really do have a problem with basic comprehension. Why don't you just stick to generalisations?
You really do have a problem with basic comprehension. Why don’t you just stick to generalisations?
Oh the ironing. I just hope you aren't one of my children's teachers.
Oldtennisshoes and Duckman, I thought you both made reasonable points and can't really see why it's come to insults.
Something we can agree on.
Hot off the email. Full return is officially the expectation with blended learning being the contingency plan.
We're still waiting for a meeting on Thursday to tell us how the blended learning will work.
Hot off the email. Full return is officially the expectation with blended learning being the contingency plan.
The timing of this decision (clearly deliberate) dos not allow a lot of time for discussion prior to the end of the academic year. Since we’re planning on a full return, it would seem reasonable to put back the weeks holiday that was ...*(I cannot think of the right word) ‘shifted’.
* nonchalantly?
Our council put up 11th aug as the return within a day of announcement but still hasn't indicated when the time will come back.
The hub was queued out today 00s of kids. Key worker now a very broad term. Because of time/money it won't be teachers in the hub. So no social distant at all. If kids can be unsymtomatic carriers I'd expect a localised spike in a week or so. Which might throw a pigeon in the works.
Yeah, our hub is running over the holidays and it has been folks in education ( early years/SAPSAS/Teachers) thus far but they are planning on staffing it with a wider range of council staff. We had a very broad definition of key worker that included "bairns for whom school was the safest/best place to be." So it will remain busy.Gauss, I wonder if the 7 week authorities will get the extra week back, I can think of reasons for and against.
Just reading Edinburgh's yet to be released plan which has now been made out of date.
A bit of relaxation on the restrictions.
The 5 mile limit is removed on 3rd July.
Eating/drinking outside is allowed on 6th July.
Self catering, second homes, caravans (i.e. no shared services) can be occupied from 3rd July.
The 5 mile limit is removed on 3rd July.
Was just saying to mrs Nobeer there, that's the only restriction that is affecting us right now, not getting to proper hills.
Everything else is moot*, pubs restaurants, shopping.
*Well, apart from getting my next trampstamp, sorry, tattoo done. 🙂
My Mrs will be happy when the hairdressers are open!
A happy wife is always a positive!
Looking forward to riding for the first time in a year with less skillz than usual lol
Our MSP is saying
"The tourism sector generally - and therefore all holiday accommodation - can re-open from 15 July"
and given that he's quoted all the stuff about shared services further up his page I'm assuming that includes places like bunkhouses with shared services.
Still not seeing anything about being able to share rooms with someone from another household, e.g. me and my buddy sharing a couple of hotel rooms in September, but I'm now cautiously optimistic...
also nothing so far about the ferries and the Islands as far as I have seen...
Doesn't seem to rule out room-sharing
If the 5 mile thing goes on the 3rd and self-contained accommodation is ok then presumably wild camping is ok from the 3rd too.
also nothing so far about the ferries and the Islands as far as I have seen…
Calmac are reviewing on 30th June, and will lay out timetables and how they'll work. At 2m they're talking about 20% capacity, so priority to going to islanders and then folk staying overnight at the very least.
The glorious third?
Woot! Woot!