We're agonising over the kids meeting some pals.
They've met no-one other than in passing on a walk or ride on 12 weeks. They get we are shielding thier mum.
However they are now getting invites to go for rides with friends, and because we know there's been larger (8-10+) groups meeting for rides and digs, we're reluctant.
Trying to balance thier social and mental health with shielding is a total risk-benefit judgement.
Come August and September they're off to school, college and uni anyway, but it feels the longer we can put off the mixing, the safer.
I think any rules or actions of the Scottish or UK government will be based on only a poor estimate of how much of the UK has been or is currently infected with the virus, until you test everybody. There should either be swab kits posted out to every household or setup mobile testing stations around the country as even at 100,000 tests a day still takes over a year to test everyone.
We need to be pro-actice and get this country working again.
People's priorities shouldn't be holidays! Just write them off this year. The government has rightfully allowed you to defer your holidays for 2 years and I think we should utilise this option. I think that some people are living in a bubble, there is going to be an economic shit storm coming when the furlough money runs out.
^^^ will UK based holidays not do a lot to help that economic shit storm though - the hospitality trade is in tatters
People’s priorities shouldn’t be holidays! Just write them off this year.
WTF are you on? Who said it was my priority? There's a huge part of our economy based on tourism, do you want them all to shut? 2 years? I think it's you that's living in a bubble mate.
Shame we couldn’t have closed our borders like NZ.
NZ has the obvious advantage of not sharing a border with England and the shambolic shitshow that is the Tory govt.
People’s priorities shouldn’t be holidays! Just write them off this year.
I've had an easier time than many through this but I'm still very much looking forward to my holidays. They will be very different this year but I'm still going to do as much as I can with them. Why make your life harder than need be?
My point is that a lot of people are going to be made redundant because of all this, my company has already made redundancies. We've decided to prioritise saving in case either of us are made redundant, holidays tend to be expensive things that we have decided to go without this year.
The government has rightfully allowed you to defer your holidays for 2 years
What's this????
My point is that a lot of people are going to be made redundant because of all this
yes, including many in Scottish tourism also...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-52955200
Ah, the experts! The experts who can’t agree whether 1m 1.5 or 2m is the best compromise for social distancing. I’m still waiting for an expert to explain why 2m outdoors is safe outside my house but not safe 20 miles away.
My natural inclination, when there is different scientific opinion, and so much is still unknown about Coronavirus is to err on the side of caution. The current rules are not stopping me from cycling or going to the shop for food, and I'm lucky that I can work from home, so the rest can wait for now.
I see the hysteria has derailed this thread a bit. Surprised people actually thought the Covid rules would be adhered to 100%. The government doesn’t expect the rules to be followed 100%. Anyone who walked out their front door at some point during their life would know humans don’t follow rules 100%.
Of course no one expected the rules to be followed 100%, but most people have observed them, and that has prevented a lot of unnecessary transmission. If the majority of people had just done their own thing, we would have had more transmission and infection. Surprised some people don't seem to understand that.
Continually referring to "hysteria" in the discussion does seem a bit...
IRC, I think the reasoning for the distance being five miles bit twenty is summed up here-
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/easing-of-scottish-lockdown/page/9/#post-11237367
I'm concerned by your lack of personal responsibility (which you also displayed on the SUV/Climate Emergency thread)- not being concerned about your impact on other people is a dangerous behaviour.
I suspect the 2m rule thing is the same as why the 5 mile rule seems restrictive- because British middle aged people will do whatever the hell they want so if you give them a pretty tight rule they'll do what you actually wanted in the first place.
I thought it was calming down a bit but the Covid hysteria is still alive and well I see.
Spin, people do die when the rules are broken. That's exactly why the rules were introduced. They weren't brought in to inconvenience you for fun. And while it might seem like the infringements you refer to are minor, if everyone were doing them it'd add up to a real problem. Is it wrong to be hysterical about something that's killing people?
I think any rules or actions of the Scottish or UK government will be based on only a poor estimate of how much of the UK has been or is currently infected with the virus, until you test everybody.
In Scotland at least, the NHS government teams compile data every day from every health board of how many people are in ICU with Covid, how many people are in ICU in total, how many suspected cases and confirmed cases of Covid there are in A&E and how many people went to A&E. Other teams from other government and statistics departments give them deaths due to Covid. That all goes off to the FM, every day, to inform policy. So there is at least some science behind it but I agree more testing is required.
I admit that I am lucky as to where I live I can drive within an hour of my house to some great places so that's what we'll do. Day trips. We've done it before when times were financially tight and we couldn't afford a proper holiday.
This thread is getting a bit 🥺
Im still ganting on a lumber
My point is that a lot of people are going to be made redundant because of all this, my company has already made redundancies.
Ah, so it's just your redundancy that we've to be bothered about, not the hospitality sector? Get ye.
As soon as we are able, I'll be out eating and drinking at all of our favourite haunts. Just doing my part for the local economy, obviously.
Coupled with which there is very limited availability for self catering houses as all the earlier bookings which have been cancelled appear to have slid back into the July and August gaps.
This is very definitely a thing, especially as the letting agencies have been refusing refunds.
Nobeerinthefridge I've quite enjoyed some your previous posts but how have you made me out to be the selfish one when I've been complying with the rules even though it's been really tough for my kids and wife not seeing my in-laws. I work in the construction industry which is generally quite badly affected by recessions. If there's redundancies at my company and we're not even out of furlough then I can see there been a lot more in the industry after the furlough money runs out.
Spin, people do die when the rules are broken. That’s exactly why the rules were introduced. They weren’t brought in to inconvenience you for fun. And while it might seem like the infringements you refer to are minor, if everyone were doing them it’d add up to a real problem. Is it wrong to be hysterical about something that’s killing people?
There's a very preachy and patronising tone to this.
Yes, people sometimes die when the guidelines are broken. And far more often they they don't. And sometimes they die even when they've followed the guidelines.
These are guidelines and open to interpretation. The FM was very clear on that. If you feel that what you need to do is follow them as strictly as possible then I'm not going to criticize you. I have taken a slightly looser track but I am 100% sure I have done nothing to endanger myself or others or encourage others to behave dangerously. To say 'what if everyone did what you did' is no argument whatsoever because a. Not everyone is. b. if everyone did what I've been doing it would be no issue at all because everyone would find themselves on remote tracks with not another soul in sight.
And yes, the hysteria is wrong because you are being critical of people whose actions are safe and reasonable.
didnthurt, no offence intended, but I'm merely pointing out that all industries are being affected. I used to work in aviation, loads of jobs lost locally, it's horrific to be honest. I'm not trying to make you out to be selfish, if your saving to protect your family future, then bravo, crack on, but don't be preachy about some of us wanting to have a wee holiday and in turn support our economy.
Best of luck.
I lost my job.
Still no sex either. I may have mentioned that.
There should either be swab kits posted out to every household or setup mobile testing stations around the country as even at 100,000 tests a day still takes over a year to test everyone.
Except the test only works if you are symptomatic and generating mucus. It's not anything like as simple as just sheep dipping the population.
@poly I think you are illustrating his point entirely. I wouldn't say breaking but definitely putting your own interpretation on to suit. And that's fine so long as its done to have the least impact on others.
I don't think half an hour sat in a an empty car park watching and listening to the birds is particularly worthy of scorn either. I spent a while at the top of a hill I'd just rode up watching the swallows, it was nice. For the sake of your mental health I'm pretty sure you are still allowed nice things.
It's all very tricky and the narrative will be bent to fit whatever a person wants.
I've booked a weekend at Yellowcraig for the 10-12 July in the motorhome on the offchance it's permitted and we can have a couple of reasonable self contained days away from the house. Longer trip planned end July and August further north, again in the van. Delicate balance between staying home and supporting local tourism in a considerate way. Not an easy balance and the threat is still there and the infection rate will rise and fall depending on various factors. Easing out of this firebreak was never going to be simple and it's an emotional piece as well.
Last time I checked in my council area there was 120 Covid deaths. 80 were in care homes. I doubt many of them picked it up from a hillwalker on The Cobbler. I’ll let you explain to Scotland;s care home residents what a great job Nicola and her crew have done.
But we will have to just disagree. I’ll give you a wave from 3000ft next week when I’m back in the highlands.
True but the guy that was up the Cobbler, you see he actually had Covid-19 but didn't know it and then the lady behind him who he held the gate open for, well she then ate her lunch without cleaning her hands and got it. Then she was at home and had drinks with her friend, you know the one that works in the care home, to talk about how difficult lockdown was. Except old elsie needed a piss so she went to the bog, but she washed her hands and unfortunately old grace is a dirty old mucker and when she was on the bog earlier and the phone rang and she opened the door before she washed her hands. Anyway, old Elsie got it as well probably off the door handle, then she went to work and gave it to 10 of the people in the care home and they all died.
But you see, nobody went up the Cobbler so WGAF.
I lost my job.
Still no sex either. I may have mentioned that.
time for a career change then - gigilo - two birds one stone...
True but the guy that was up the Cobbler, you see he actually had Covid-19 but didn’t know it and then the lady behind him who he held the gate open for, well she then ate her lunch without cleaning her hands and got it. Then she was at home and had drinks with her friend, you know the one that works in the care home, to talk about how difficult lockdown was. Except old elsie needed a piss so she went to the bog, but she washed her hands and unfortunately old grace is a dirty old mucker and when she was on the bog earlier and the phone rang and she opened the door before she washed her hands. Anyway, old Elsie got it as well probably off the door handle, then she went to work and gave it to 10 of the people in the care home and they all died.
I think it's time we moved on from this kind of fearful 'what if' thinking and started re-engaging with life. By which I mean doing stuff and meeting people but with all of the long term sustainable strategies in place to reduce infections (hand washing, distancing, cough etiquette etc). The chain you outline above could have been broken by those things too.
Ok look I don't disagree but we the 'what if' is the reality right now. I genuinely don't think people actually even consider these sorts of chains, i put it down for effect. What I do worry about is that some people, my family included, seem to think 'its all over' and they can crash on and live like before.
I don’t think half an hour sat in a an empty car park watching and listening to the birds is
Did I miss the bit where this was prohibited by the current restrictions?
Did I miss the bit where this was prohibited by the current restrictions?
I assume it was based on my example of my folks driving 15 miles each way to do this. So definitely against the guideline but really difficult to see how any harm could come from it.
What I do worry about is that some people, my family included, seem to think ‘its all over’ and they can crash on and live like before.
I agree that's a worry which is why I think the message needs to change and more emphasis be put on the other strategies. Maybe that's what the SG will do.
time for a career change then – gigilo – two birds one stone…
Bit personal, I always assumed he had 2 stones.... and he’ll need more than 2 birds to makes ends meet unless he’s very high end.
Wife has lost her job, still trying to keep 2 kids in nursery a couple of days a week. No holiday here this year 😕
I assume it was based on my example of my folks driving 15 miles each way to do this. So definitely against the guideline but really difficult to see how any harm could come from it.
Gotcha.
I was actually thinking that, if only that guy with Covid 19 had driven a wee bit further to somewhere quieter, maybe those 10 folk in the care home wouldn't have died. Selfish sod.
Spin, Scotroutes, my post was in reply to this:
It is selfish to break the rules when the rules have been set for a reason. Yes, people are probably a bit fed up but people die when the rules are broken, which ought to put it into context. Not going to birdwatch is less of an inconvenience that someone dieing because the rules were too weak.
@nzcol how did the lady who had the gate held open for her catch it off her hands? 😉
"I agree that’s a worry which is why I think the message needs to change and more emphasis be put on the other strategies. Maybe that’s what the SG will do"
That's an issue in itslef though spin. We don't know when or if there will be a vaccine. The standard, and frequency of cleaning will vary widely from one premises to another. The compliance with social distancing and wearing face coverings will also vary. Which leaves us with one strategy we know is effective, that is lockdown. For carious reasons our own mental health, backlog of other necessary operations etc, and the economy , lockdown has to be eased if possible. So we take cautious steps into a complex situation which is what I think the Scottish Government is attempting to do
I’m still waiting for an expert to explain why 2m outdoors is safe outside my house but not safe 20 miles away.
Simple really- if you've got Covid you're not moving it 20 miles to somewhere it isn't. And the person 20 miles away isn't taking it a further 20 miles and so on.
You're also not picking it up from 20 miles away and bringing it home.
While that might not specifically apply in your case, the rules applies to the population as a whole.
provisional dates for schools to reopen. Should be able to see child no3's first day of school before I start work - score.
Inverclyde - August 18
Renfrewshire - August 14
West Dunbartonshire - August 17
East Dunbartonshire - August 13
Glasgow - August 13
East Renfrewshire - August 19
North Lanarkshire - August 13
Falkirk - August 19
West Lothian - August 18
Edinburgh - August 19
Midlothian - August 19
East Lothian - August 19
Clackmannanshire - August 19
Fife - August 19
Dundee - August 18
Angus - August 12
Simple really- if you’ve got Covid you’re not moving it 20 miles to somewhere it isn’t.
It's impressive that, 12 weeks or so after the start of lockdown, people still haven't managed to wrap their brains round this rather basic rationale for the 'staying home, staying local' message. As much as anything, it's about limiting the rate of infection so that it doesn't exceed the healthcare system's ability to cope.
When it comes to heading into the hills, you also have to factor in issues like the finite capacity of MR etc to cope with people getting into difficulties. On a normal pre-Covid weekend day, we could cope with 3 callouts in a day (although that's not common in our area). However, at present, we don't have the PPE, technical kit or personnel to cover that.There's a 72 hour turnaround on decontamination of working at height kit, and we don't have the resources to issue duplicates, so a spike in 'shouts' related to easing of lockdown, or people flouting the rules, could overwhelm a team's capacity very rapidly. Of course it's a tiny percentage of people who head out that find themselves needing assistance, but by minimising the 'pool' of people for that percentage, you're able to maintain a viable level of cover.
...and no one heads out for a day's mountain biking expecting to have to call out MR.
@nzcol how did the lady who had the gate held open for her catch it off her hands? 😉
Ah yes sorry of course, she had to close the gate from the manky man with the plague.
.
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I don't think posting a full stop is going to end this piemonster.
@Poah we're still being told 11th August for schools in Shetland, a week earlier than normal.
provisional dates for schools to reopen.
Poah - Where is that from, please?
Stirling is missing - although I think they are August 11th, a week earlier than normal.
Ahah- from The Sun:
"<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Here is what every council has listed as its provisional date for pupils to return to schools*"</span>
Aberdeenshire - August 18
Aberdeen - August 11
Angus - August 12
Argyll and Bute - August 17
Clackmannanshire - August 19
Dumfries and Galloway - August 20
Dundee - August 18
East Ayrshire - August 18
East Dunbartonshire - August 13
East Lothian - August 19
East Renfrewshire - August 19
Edinburgh - August 19
Falkirk - August 19
Fife - August 19
Glasgow - August 13
Highland - August 18
Inverclyde - August 18
Midlothian - August 19
Moray - August 18
Na h-Eileanan Siar - August 13
North Ayrshire - August 18
North Lanarkshire - August 13
Orkney - August 18
Perth and Kinross - August 11
Renfrewshire - August 14
Scottish Borders - August 18
Shetland - August 19
South Ayrshire - August 19
South Lanarkshire - August 13
Stirling - August 11
West Dunbartonshire - August 17
West Lothian - August 18
*All dates are subject to change
Guess mid august is when the roads jam up again then, sicne weans these days seem to have an inability to walk to school. 😆
Stirling is missing – although I think they are August 11th, a week earlier than normal
I thought all schools were back on the same date 11/8 which is a week early for many.
provisional dates for schools to reopen.
To re-open part time that is.
Do NOT expect your child to be back in nursery or school full time in August.
You will be allocated either a few days or am/pm.
They will still be homeworking, as well as school or nursery.
They will be outdoors a *lot* more than before, certainly until October break. Buy they a good jacket and bunnet please.
