MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Mrs yinn has won and paid for an item on e-bay.
She won and paid on the 23rd, item was supposed to have been posted 2nd Class Economy delivery on 24th, due on the 31st.
Its now the 6th of Feb and still nothing. No missed delivery cards, nothing at the delivery office either.
Seller cant make a claim with RM until the 14th, so they want us to wait until then. Seller is being responable-ish so far.
E-bay suggest we need to wait too until after the 14th.
Trouble is we needed the jacket for tomorrow for a fire station visit yinn jnr, so have had to buy an alternative at the weekend.
What does the STW collective suggest / think?
i would wait out. if it turns up ask for a refund/return if it does not then get your money back via paypal
You have to wait the two weeks and its not the sellers fault necessarily. Buying mail order to a deadline is always risky
resale it unless you new jacket has a fault in that case take new jacket back
I appreciate that TJ, but i've sent stuff all over the place in the uk and it never took that long, even second class economy.
If this was classifieds then the torch mob would have been unleashed some time ago.
The seller has failed to deliver within reasonable timescales, meanwhile the seller has our money and we have nothing and potentially nothing for another week at least.
Its the Royal Mails fault, not the seller!
I bought a seat post last year and the seller sent it the next days 1st recorded and it took them the full 14 working days before they delivered it, i say that because it is officially lost after 14 working days.
RM are usually quite good, but sometimes they can be really bad.
RM are acting on the sellers behalf though. At the end of the day, I dont really care how they get it to us as long as they do! Which 2 weeks later, they haven't.
The number of times i've seen on classifieds thread that the seller "should do the decent thing and refund the buyer".
We shall see..
I sent a letter 2nd class on the 9th jan, arrived on the 24th.
Ask them if they got proof of postage.
If so and it doesn't turn up, they refund you and they get a load of stamps as compo.
I dont really care how they get it to us as long as they do! Which 2 weeks later, they haven't.
It's the seller's responsibility to get it to you by the agreed method, which assuming you agreed to 2nd class Royal Mail unfortunately means anthing up to two weeks. And yes RM can be a bit useless (I sent something signed for, recipient said it arrived but still hasn't been marked as signed for on the tracking site).
Edit: Actually why do you have to wait until the 14th?
Sadly you agreed to second class delivery so I don't think you've got a leg to stand on.
Hmm, guess we've got to wait and either get a refund when RM decide to refund the seller or we end up with a jacket that is no longer required.
We have to wait until the 14th apparently because thats the earliest RM will allow a case to be raised.
Im glad its not a large sum of money, but it still grates the seller has the dosh and we have nothing in return.
I think the moral is request 2nd class recorded delivery minimum next time. And to think my OH thinks im paranoid about this sort of thing. Prob not worth being too smug yet!
bigyinn - Member
If this was classifieds then the torch mob would have been unleashed some time ago.
I don't think so - it's RM's fault, the seller has posted the item.
All you can do is appeal to the seller's better nature. He doesn't want to end up with the item in your hands but no money.
EDIT what does RD get you? I can't see how it could help in this instance.
I think the moral is request 2nd class recorded delivery minimum next time.
You can request away as much as you want but it may fall on some deaf eBay sellers ears. RD could still take 14 days, doesn't give you any more protection, it's actually a senders benefit.
Put yourself in the sellers shoes - he's sent goods, then refunds you, then they magically turn up courtesy of Royal Mail. He's then relying on your good will to pay up again. I personally (no offence in this case) wouldn't take the risk.
Assuming the seller has actually posted said item.
This is getting interesting. Compare to some of the recent Classifieds abuse threads and you see a very different viewpoint being taken.
Mainly if the seller hasnt got something to you becuase its got lost by RM then they seller should refund you the buyer and sort it out with the RM.
RD gets proof of delivery, which because there is none required in this situation means we could be lying about not receiving the jacket (we're not obviously). It wouldnt help us in not having received the goods, but it would prove we didnt receive it in the first place
Was this an eBay business seller or a private seller?
OP the various STW classifieds thread incur wrath because a seller is ignoring emails etc.
Here, you've implied at least that the seller is communicating and you are satisfied that he has posted the item, and will make a claim as soon as he can.
Worlds apart.
As for RD, as you say, it's of no benefit to you.
I always insist on recorded or special delivery when buying or selling on ebay. And Second Class can be particularly bad
Its gonna get messy, but I dont see why we should be out of pocket because of someone elses screw up.
RD is beneficial to us as it proves it hasn't been delivered. The way it was sent, all it proves is that it was posted (we have no actual proof of this).
Well its now the 14th, still no jacket, so the seller should now be able to raise their dispute with the RM.
Should we continue to wait for our money, or do we take the line that its now between the seller and RM to sort out, so they should give us the dosh back?
or do we take the line that its now between the seller and RM to sort out, so they should give us the dosh back?
I would
You should get a refund regardless of whether RM accept they have lost the package, so I can't see a reason the seller can justify not refunding you within a reasonable timescale. You only had to wait to ensure reasonable time was given for the package to be delivered.
If the value of insurance offered by RM doesn't cover the cost of the package, that is the sellers problem and a reminder to them that there is a risk in sending items that exceed the value of cover.
I think its only a tenner, but its the principle of it.
Im banned from being near the PC wilst mrs yinn is logged in, as I would probably upset the seller!
you are a nightmare buyer !
how about you buy your item in good time !
you bought the item the seller posted it royal mail messed up how is that the sellers problem !
seller gets a compensation from Royal Mail then refunds you !
spooky_b329 - Member
You should get a refund regardless of whether RM accept they have lost the package, so I can't see a reason the seller can justify not refunding you within a reasonable timescale.
RM will have a look for it - it's possible it still might turn up.
Their T&Cs...
you bought the item the seller posted it royal mail messed up how is that the sellers problem !seller gets a compensation from Royal Mail then refunds you !
It's the buyers responsibility to get the money to the seller and the sellers responsibility to get the goods to the buyer
RM are the sellers responsibility, when and if they pay up has nothing to do with the buyer
What if Paypal hadn't managed to get the money to the seller?
just file a claim with paypal. It's for the seller to sort out between them and royal mail now. Now need to get nasty, just file the claim for a refund.
How am I nightmare buyer?? This is nothing to do with buying in good time!
Im asking for guidance BEFORE I get back to the seller.
They can either give me goods or my money. Either one is good for me! As the item has gone missing and they dont have another I think im being resonable in expecting a refund.
The seller has subcontracted RM to deliver the item on their behalf. If their contractor fails to deliver (literally) their side of the bargain how is that my problem?
If CRC send an item that never turns up should I expect to wait until they sort it with RM? No, they will either refund me or send another item.
Just read my last comments again and it sounds like TJ. Sorry.
Actually I had a recent case like this...buyer wanting a refund ASAP after a few days, claimed he didn't have £30 to buy a replacement item, RM then delivered it late, if I'd refunded, I'd have had no protection.
EDIT
The seller has subcontracted RM to deliver the item on their behalf. If their contractor fails to deliver (literally) their side of the bargain how is that my problem?
It isn't, but why shouldn't you wait for your £10 in line with RM's T&C's?
Comparison with the worlds biggest bike retailer is a little unreasonable IMO.
Expecting a refund after a few days is silly. 3 weeks though??
Actually I had a recent case like this
But it's not similar, he's waited a reasonable time, you can now presume lost
If it turns up, all well and good but the buyer shouldn't be the one that has to wait indefinitely
[i]RM will have a look for it - it's possible it still might turn up.
Their T&Cs...[/i]
Its possible that it will turn up, but once 15 days have elapsed, RM will accept a claim for loss/compensation so there is no need to wait any longer. It can take a further 30 days to investigate, this does not concern the buyer.
bigyinn/jota - you can only make a claim to RM after I think 2 weeks from postage. It takes 2-4 weeks for them to investigate and refund after that IME.
Actually that buyer wanted a refund after 2 weeks or so I think.
EDIT the package will be looked for during the investigation - and can still turn up.
Item posted 24th Jan, now 14th Feb = 3 weeks.
My point is, RM will now entertain a claim from the seller for non delivery. i.e. The item is now officially missing.
Why should I now wait up to another 4 weeks before I get a refund from the seller?
As I've said, because 1. it still might turn up in that time and 2. that's how long for the seller to get a refund and the claim to be closed.
Item may be "officially missing" but it's not "officially lost" until the claim is closed.
I don't see why you are so uptight about it, unless you have a trust issue. If the seller refunds you now, he has no comeback. Would you do that happily?
3 weeks seems a decent time to wait. If the seller has instigated action with Royal Mail, it's fair to assume that it isn't being delivered to the buyer and refund is due. That would appear to be the sellers stance, so why shouldn't it be the buyers?
Al, I have no leverage as I have nothing. If I was the seller, I would be refunding the buyer and slogging it out with RM.
You're clearly looking at it from a sellers pespective, try looking at it from a buyers perspective. If you'd bought something how long would you be prepared to wait before getting your refund.
This could drag on for another 4 weeks, making 7 weeks to wait for a refund. Would you STILL be ok waiting for your money? I doubt it.
I accept the item could still turn up, but its looking rather unlikely every day.
What have you actually said to the seller?
We said we'll wait and see what happens for now.
All I wanted to do was to sus out the best way forwards to sort this out.
Seems to be 50:50 on here that we should either continue to wait or request our money back from the seller.
bigyinn - Member
You're clearly looking at it from a sellers pespective, try looking at it from a buyers perspective. If you'd bought something how long would you be prepared to wait before getting your refund.
Bottom line: you are protected by ebay throughout, as soon as the seller refunds you, he has no protection.
That's why the seller's position trumps the buyers IMO.
Being out of £10 for 7 weeks, I could handle it.
The 15 days is to allow royal mail to return the package to the sender if it was undeliverable. If it turns up in the subsequent 'investigation' they should return it to the sender.
[i]should[/i] being the operative word.
As i've already said its not the money, its the principle. Why should I be out of pocket? I've done nothing wrong.
If it was a £200 frame would it be any different then??
If the seller is being helpful then don't think there's much you can do against them at this point. If it's lost they will also be out of pocket but the claim should cover that in which case they should get the ebay fees back and should conpensate you accordingly. You could claim back off paypal but they might not do anything if she/he's shown proactiveness in chasing royal mail.
bigyinn - Member
As i've already said its not the money, its the principle. Why should I be out of pocket? I've done nothing wrong.
You're not out of pocket.
You are being asked to show some patience because a 3rd party has ****ed up and the seller has no protection.
Err how does having no jacket or refund mean I am not out of pocket?
And so far what protection have I had?
We've shown 3 weeks of patience. How long is long enough?? 3 weeks? 6 weeks? 2 months?
Al, if I'd dropped £200 on a frame that had then just disappeared, I'd be on the bomber path weeks ago.
You sure you're not just taking the opposing position just because you can?
I think you have been more than patient. If I was the seller I would refund you straight away now.
I think CA has a very one sided pov. The only person down at the moment is the buyer. The seller has had the money since the beginning. If its now delivered its irrelevant. The seller should seek compensation back from RM to cover their loss.
Thank you gravitysucks. We're going to contact the seller later on today and request our money back. Im assuming they will have raised this at their end with RM by now.
Seller would not get compo if it had been delivered.
OP you will get your money back, you are protected by ebay throughout, but the seller is not. I've tried to explain my POV, I don't think I can make it any simpler (have a read of the ebay and paypal policies), but you are unwilling to accept it.
Cheerio.
Just give the seller a couple of days to refund, if he stalls or doesn't do it
Simply open an ebay dispute and let them sort it
You shouldn't have to waste your time and energy because the sellers courier has cocked up
Al, you're not much good at seeing the other side of the arguement are you? Just because you have a different POV from me doesnt make EITHER of us wrong!
I ask again, if you were in the same situation, but had put down £200 for a frame, would you still be so on the side of the seller and be prepared to wait for perhaps 7 weeks for a refund?
Im not looking to start a war with the seller, just want to get a view on whats a reasonable time to get the refund.
I'm not saying you are wrong, but you've made no comment on my points, which are merely factual.
If you're unhappy then start a dispute as above. IIRC you have 45 days from paypal payment to do so?