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try driving in the states. They only change lanes when there is something in front or they want the exit and [b]happily overtake on either side[/b]
You know that's entirely legal there right...?
Yes they use the railways more but the haulage companies avoid the toll roads if at all possible so all the lorries trundle around on the RN, plus as above no HGVs on many roads at the weekends.
No they don't, we have massive amounts of rail freight, we're very similar in "ton/kms", but as their distances are much greater that's not an accurate picture. Outside the high speed routes France's rail network is a way behind ours.
I'd invite the OP to attempt driving the main north-to-south autoroutes at the beginning of French summer holidays, when the entire country drives to the south coast.
But most any other times the (toll) autoroutes are pretty good.
A roads and country lanes, erm, yes, well... Nutters aplenty.
Worth remember that the UK has quite a low incidence of road deaths, so we must be fairly reasonable at driving, on the whole, despite what it might seem when some dick cuts you up by joining the motorway at 10mph slower than you and pulling straight out to the outside lane forcing you to slam the anchors on.
Depends where you are, the traffic around Nice, Cannes etc. is awful. Their lane disciplinary on roundabouts is awful also. However, on the whole the driving experience in France is good.
Aside: why is the quality of country roads in this country compared to Europe so bad? All we seem to do is dump some gravel over the road and leave it, no attempt to fix the pot holes, cracks etc.
Ive also found that my car does better MPG in France than the UK. According to the computer our car was going about 4mpg better in France. This is driving on motorways to Calais and then Dover to Bristol. Made me think was it road surface, average speed, driving style. To me on many motorways the lanes looked thinner and maybe I was watching my speed more or the equivalent speed limits lower so saving more fuel.
mpg could be all manner of things.
I got better mpg driving from Swiss ski resort to Frankfurt than I did from Frankfurt to that ski resort. Ascent or descent of that hill wouldn't make a difference on a journey that long (but would on a short one). Both were on a Saturday, same time of day. Same roads. One was BP 97 octane, the other was Aral (which iirc is BP) 97 octane. Both sub zero, hence aircon off.
Maybe it's cos I'm desperate to get to the ski resort, but on the way home, tired, and don't care?
Road surfaces vary a lot even in one country. East German autobahns are ace. Excellent quality, some brand new, and deserted. West German ones are busy, several lanes wide in places, more deteriorated road surface.
And my street near frankfurt, is tarmac laid over cobbles, and the guy comes round and hand tamps fresh tarmac into the potholes once every few weeks.
bikebouy - Member
rossatease - Member
Now if we started charging continental trucks as they come off the Ferry or out of the Tunnel a tax to help repair our roads, that would be a start.Isn't there some consulation paper going on at the mo' on this??
Ooh good, it would make sense, the wear and tear from them is colossal not to mention the death rate, thanks to side swiping and watching movies as they plough into the back of slip road queues.. The further East they come from the worse they drive.
A few points:
Yep driving in France like most things is better on the whole than in the UK.
Slow speeds on conjested roads helped by people generally seeing "outside" as dangerous place combine to achieve a low death r ate per KM.
The "action for roads plan" is a fop to the haulage industry which sponsors this goverment, it mainly means increasing the speed limit on roads not built for high speed traffic.
There is also a proposed tax for foreign vehicles but no increases on Derv despite it being responsible for most polution and HGV's doing most damage to roads.
Traffic is bad in the UK because for years we mistaken Growth as a good thing.
I love driving in France. Even off the autoroutes, the roads are lovely and dead quiet.
In comparison, I came home from the south coast via the A34, M40, M6 and M62 late Friday night. A34 was torture, especially in the rain with people overtaking at a fraction more than the person in the inside. M40 was full of people happily sat in the middle lane because there was a lorry coming up on the inside (half a mile away), M6 wasn't actually too bad compared to normal apart from where the toll joins where it was 4 lanes down to 1 for roadworks which royally fked everything up and then further 3>1 roadworks further up the M6 at the Lymm viaduct and on the M62 and then more roadworks all around the northern section of the M60. Horrid drive.
Take what you want from it but the best part of the whole journey was the M6 Toll. £5 for twenty something miles of clear, smooth tarmac with only 1 moron in a Ford Ka who thought it'd be fun to speed up when I went past them. I'd happily pay £40/£50 for clear, pleasant toll roads from Halifax to the South West and Portsmouth 😉
Being on a bicycle in France is a better experience than the UK and driving most of the the time similar. There are some things that people do here that you very rarely see in the Uk though:
Red light running at night and in the early morning. It pays to slow down and have a good look before going through green lights early on Saturday and Sunday if you are on the minor road.
Drink: I still see cars wandering all over the road with drunks at the wheel.
Scooters: Expect them to do the unexpected, the seemingly impossible and the totally suicidal usually on just the back wheel.
Bikes: it seems every would-be TT rider wants to ride up my local hill in Summer and grind enough off the pegs to impress his mates in Munich, Paris or Leeds.
Foreigners: some of them don't even have the steering wheel where it should be.
I reckon the fact that the autoroutes have a sensible speed limit kind of helps - it kind of makes the lanes 60 - 70 - 80 rather than our mix of 55, 65, 95 (not necessarily in that order). when there are trucks on the autoroute they seem happy to bunch meaning that you only get the odd hurdle in the inside lane rather than a constant stream of slow vehicles rendering the inside lane useless to anyone who wants to "make progress"
Buses and trucks are all on the limiter so they can't/don't need to overtake except uphill where there is usually an extra lane on the inside for slow vehicles so overtaking trucks don't block the outer lane.
Portuguese trucks draft a few metres apart to save fuel but the gendarmes now have helicopters on the worst affected sections of the N10 to spot them.
I find it the same in Spain tbh...
I just think there's absolutely no imagination here when it comes to roads,sorta one motorways enuff when abroad they pop a few more in for good measure.
Considering how small we are it's a bit pants that it takes so long to get anywhere.
"A denser country would not be able to fit more roads in, generally speaking, I'd have thought."
Just been to morzine fir a week (driving) and we are now in the Netherlands. Much denser country, they don't seem to have any problems fitting in more roads. Every time I go there are new roads and new cycle paths. I have yet to find a pothole. And it's not the weather keeping the roads in better nic, it's maintainance and money. My sister does pay 100 euro road tax PER MONTH for her 2005 c4.
I do think the Dutch are terrible drivers, especially on the motor ways. Only the Belgians are worse.
Driving in France is lovely, well worth the toll twice a year. We decided on driving to Amsterdam from morzine via France/Luxembourg/Belgium and not via Germany (route preferred by the Dutch), and paying the 45 ish Euro toll.
Simone
The rural French drivers that I have mixed with don't seem to be able to manage a hill start. Always leave a big gap between you and the car in front when in traffic in a rural town.
I've never had the dubious pleasure of driving in a big French town or city.
The French haven't always been that good. Their death rate on the roads was way worse than the Italians, let alone the British (second best in the world AFAIK).
Only in the last 10 years or so have the french police got serious about speed and lane discipline, and the results speak for themselves. However, as others have said, lower density on Motoriways. And their RN roads between towns are often badly designed and sluggish with myopic elderly driving small cars at a snails pace, and are not a patch on our A roads. And anyone who has driven past Chambery at a weekend won't buy the no-queue rubbish.
What is the problem Frenchies have with being overtaken by Brits? I have constantly experienced French drivers whom I have overtaken speed up, overtake me then slot back in in front of me and reduce speed requiring me to overtake them again. All whilst I've had cruise control engaged and thus doing a constant speed. I've even had one idiot do this to me three times.
Generally I've found the Germans' lane discipline to be much better probably due to the possibility of having something powerful from Munich or Stuttgart approaching them from behind at warp speed.
Except for the flat empty bit in the middle that is dull for 4 hrs.
The midlands?
but the best part of the whole journey was the M6 Toll. £5 for twenty something miles of clear, smooth tarmac
especially so in my car... left hooker means passenger pays 😈
Driving on the continent is a pleasure (with the exception of the roads around Antwerp and Lilles) and the horrible bit is getting there via the M25, M26 and M20 - and wherever you started from in this vile little island.
I enjoyed driving in Paris, Athens and Joannina, and MrsJA had great fun in Thessaloniki (sort of).
Belgium's a bit shit on the motorways, though, which is a shame as I should like to change my nationality to Belgian more than anywhere else at the moment.
We're going to Germany soon, though, so I may revise my thoughts a bit. Looking forward to seeing if my car is good for 145 mph - and whether I am!
I enjoy driving I'm France
People seem to actually want to get to where they are going
I avoid it as much as possible here where most drivers seem to be asleep
I usually love driving in france but have just dro e Leeds to Spain on the 1st/2nd august, traditionally the busiest weekend on the french roads.
Uk bit was crap as would be expected. Took over 3 hour to get round Paris. Then the 4 1/2 hour journey from Clermont to Spain took 9 hours!!!
Worst journey through France ever. Never seen so much traffic on French roads and I've been driving down to the alps/pyrenees/Spain for 10 years or so.
It usually is great but I'll be avoiding that weekend in the future.
I avoid it as much as possible here where most drivers seem to be asleep
Hah.. if you want drivers not paying attention, go to the USA. Our biggest problem is aggression, but people are at least mostly concentrating. The US is awful for this - you see rafts of cars bombing along at 85 five feet apart, then you look at the drivers and half of them are texting, the other half are nattering and eating.
Worst journey through France ever. Never seen so much traffic on French roads and I've been driving down to the alps/pyrenees/Spain for 10 years or so.It usually is great but I'll be avoiding that weekend in the future.
First weekend in August is always bad. I made the mistake of visiting my folks once and had a succession of 20-30 minute queues at motorway toll booths.
I spent a month out in Northern Finland, and got used to driving on snow/ice, where max speed is probably 60mph and you leave MASSIVE gaps between cars because it takes so long to turn or stop. Rush hr was probably maybe passing 1 or 2 cars coming the other way.
We flew back into Heathrow and drove out onto the M25 into tea time rush hr. OMG! I've never felt claustrophobic in a car before, but doing 85mph, with 5 cars all trying to get into your boot was a real eye opener after a month away!! Amazing how we get used to it 😉
I've never felt claustrophobic in a car before, but doing 85mph,
Why were you doing 85mph? Why get into the impatient rep mix?
I've found that when it's busy on the M4 the outside lane is often full of flashy cars doing what you say, but the middle is quite peaceful with people doing 70 in lots of space.
M4 was classic for that.
Yes I used to centerlane hog the entire way from Bristol to London and back every Mon/Fri.
Left hand lane full of trucks and slow cars, Right Hand lane overloaded with repmobiles to the point it's going slower than the middle lane. Me in middle lane needle either on 70, or below, creeping up the inside of those in the "fast" lane, trying not to undertake as such but trying to stay out of blindspots and not purposefully hold up cars behind on technicalities.
NZ was the nicest place I've driven.
Population density is so low its actually negative, a network of roads that see the odd campervan every hour or so, meant driving was actually really really nice.
Until you got to auckland, which was a bit toss (for traffic).
NZ was really nice in general now I come to think of it. Remind me to emigrate there.