MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
I for one feel so much safer knowing that me and my family are sharing the the public highways with middle aged men practising their left foot braking.
If you do an off-road driving course you will hear said often enough "As slow as possible, as fast as necessary" it seems to be a motto of off-road driving. Off-road driving is comparable to driving on-road-snow.
Some modern cars dont allow you to do left foot braking because of over sensitive ABS and cutting the power as soon as the brake pedal is applied.
Sort of, cars with a fly-by-wire throttle will cut the throttle if the brake pedal is pressed. ABS has nothing to do with it.
I meant it as 2 separate foibles about modern cars. Its easier to achieve left foot braking in a car without overly sensitive ABS (which most average cars have).
aracer - your talking about a different type of left foot braking. From what your saying you use left foot braking off road to control speed and grip. I'm talking about left foot braking for basically unbalancing the car to enable it to turn through corners at a higher speed than would other wise be possible.
Yeah took a while to work out your line of thinking, aracer.....
On the Seatcupra website I seem to remember a thread about this with regard to the Leon Cupra.
A bloke was asking whether you could heel-toe & left foot brake or whether the ECU restricts throttle & brake inputs.
There was a bit of a mixed response with some saying that you couldn't do either, while others reckoned the ECU gave you a couple of seconds leeway before it cut the throttle.
Mine seems instant; drive along in 2nd at 20mph, dab brake very gently while on throttle and car slows as you'd expect it to if just braking. More throttle has no effect, which with all the torques of the 1.9TDi I'd expect it to overcome a whisker of brake!
Not sure what the point of it is.
I'm talking about left foot braking for basically unbalancing the car to enable it to turn through corners at a higher speed than would other wise be possible.
Eh?!
LFB purely allows you to apply the power, and the brake (or visa versa) with very little delay in between, hence being utterly pointless on the road, as it will let you get around the corner 1:10th of a second quicker.
to unbalance the car you would need to have the brakes weighted to the rears, as some rally drivers prefer, so that a dab of brake actually acts as a handbrake for a turn.
a quicker way of unbalancing the car for a turn is to countersteer before the turn, and if it does start to step out youve carrie dout a scandinavian flick.
But that doesnt require LFB.
of course i dont know what im talking about at all, but thinking logically, thats how it looks to me.
how does LFB unbalance the car? (other than having you accidently jump on it because you think its the clutch)
This thread reminds me why I very rarely drive now. The roads arent a playground and you're not tommi makinen.
Surf-Mat wasn't talking about any of this LFB though.
He was talking about using his left foot to activate the brakes enough to cause the lights to come on.
That has nowt to do with driving technique or the IAM, it has all to do with [i]moderated[/i]
The roads arent a playground and you're not tommi makinen.
Exactly though of course Smurf Matt is a more more AWESOME driver than Makinen
deleted as I completely got my wires crossed and spouted a load of cak. Trying to work & stick stuff on here.....
Olly. I agree LFB isnt really for use on public roads but you could perhaps use it in scenarios where you could perhaps be in 2nd or 3rd gear going round a bend.
Theoretically the car is neutrally balanced going round the corner. Left foot braking just allows you to move that neutral balance towards the front, making the front have more grip and the rear less, it just helps the car turn in tighter and come round quicker.
When your in a car with some one who knows what they are doing the result is amazingly smooth and controlled. (even in a normal road car with normal brake bias)
Dear Nervous Drivers,
If the road is well gritted and clear, and it hasn't snowed for DAYS - PLEASE try to get above 20mph.
If you can't, stay at home, you're a danger to other road users.
Yours sincerely,
Frustrated Driver.
Safety first eh chaps? 😆
This explains lfb quite well:
http://www.advanced-driving.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=891
in that you can effectively alter the brake bias depending on how much throttle/brake you choose to use.
if we are playing this game:
Incidently, heel and toe also allows you to keep the engine above the speed at which the turbo spools, to prevent lag from it dropping down, and then bringing it back up again through the bottom of end of the turbo range.
SBZ - left foot braking looks dead easy ( 😆 ) in a car where you don't need the clutch to change gear. I think my feet would get confused if I had to engage the clutch as well.
Nice shoes there, Senna!
Surprised to see him on-off-on-off-on-off the throttle in some of the corners.
Interesting.
Nice Vid - Never seen the Senna one before. 😛
From those videos it is plain to see that those techniques are not for people to practice on public roads.
Ayrton Senna. Your footwear. Have a word with yourself.
"Surprised to see him on-off-on-off-on-off the throttle in some of the corners."
Apparently thats what Schumacher does too.
I'm not doing this heel/toe/left braking thing if it means I have to wear white socks with brown leather loafers!
http://www.advanced-driving.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=891
Oh no! We're doomed! Someone's posted a link to the ADUK forum. I predict this thread will get to 600 posts and 30 pages!
Can you left foot brake a helicopter?
beat me to it Mr Zulus.
Doh.
In a Jerry Springer stylee, my last word:
LFB is for being FAAAAASSSST and if you mess it up you can end up in trouble and come off. (being stuck in gear while needing to emergecny brake for instance)
not sensible on the road.
H&T is for being smoooth, and while it does allow you to potentially be quicker, it also reduces wear on your car in every respect,
and if the worst comes to worst, and you need to emergency brake while H&T you can!
your toe only snags the throttle, and is easy to slide off, and even if you cant, you just keep the clutch out and keep your foot on the brake.
I dont H&T at the moment as my shoes are Doc Mart'ns and far to clunky to be able to do it safely, and when i do do it, its at normal speeds.
oddly satisfying, in a James May kind of way, to go 6th to 3rd with zero bump in the car coming up a slip road off the motorway.
The brake pedal on a tractor is two pedals together, but you can press either on its own to steer it a bit like a tank or any tracked vehicle.
I cant read nor write but i can draw a tractor.
supercyril - Member
Can you left foot brake a helicopter?
Is it on a conveyor??
Well at least this thread has had one good result: that Senna video. The rest has been v.poor (is that ok mods?)
Hmmmm, might have a go at heel and toe on the way to Thetford this evening if conditions allow.
I am wearing slip-on shoes although they are black not brown & my socks aren't white.
Prepare for a first post tomorrow along the lines of:
"Oh fiddledy-dee, I appear to have lunched my gearbox & clutch"
richmars - Member
The rest has been v.poor (is that ok mods?)
Boo hiss.
I thought it was quite a good thread, all in all.
Learnt quite a bit and it only degenerated into a bun-fight slagging match for a while, before regaining composure.
PS - You Thetfording over Christmas?? Hope you have a nice break.
So then ladies, a disagreement about brake light activation (fair enough) followed by a barrage of abuse. The main part of my post was about [b]slowing down[/b] to put off tailgaters - agreed by most people here. Yet I when I mentioned LFB I got bashed then suddenly everyone's asking about it, having been shown it's used by professional drivers. Any apology? No.
I see aracer posts about heel and toeing - NOT related to LBF but a clear indication of someone that knows what advanced driving is, the muppets pile in and have more of a go.
Then the tags are added. Pretty nasty ones as usual.
Here's some facts for you bitter little men (not all - but you know who you are):
I have never crashed.
I have never had a single point on my license
I did an intensive Police driving course aged 24 at Portishead, the Avon and Somerset Police HQ and passed the test first time.
I have been an IAM member for 13 years - I was invited to be a trustee by the MD of the organisation but don't have time as it involves a lot of travel to London.
I have had a road test published in a national newspaper.
I have owned (and still owned) some reasonable cars - nothing really flashy but cars more interesting than a cooking model Focus.
I grew up around fast cars - my dad had many including a 928, 308 Gt4, 3 uR Quattros, etc - so a PROPER enthusiast almost from the day I was born.
I would love to share this enthusiasm with others. Share knowledge. Share experiences.
But until the bitter litte boys with a chip the size of a planet get off this forum, that isn't going to happen - it'll be sniping, constant attempts to trip me up, utterly pathetic little snipes.
For that reason I'm out.
Enjoy Christmas all - even the pondlife of the forum.
"Surprised to see him on-off-on-off-on-off the throttle in some of the corners."Apparently thats what Schumacher does too.
There was a Senna documentary that said it was this that was the biggest difference between him and team mates in the same car. They showed telemetry traces of him and a team mate (might have been Palmer) and although Senna was doing it "wrong" (jerky throttle action), he was at full power sooner than the other driver because of the repeated stabbing at the pedal.
* I picked him up when I pulled into the outside lane to allow a truck on from the sliproad. This meant Mr Audi had to ease off ever so slightly because I had dared to enter "his" lane for a few seconds. When I pulled back into the inside lane Mr Audi pulled in with me and sat 6 inches off my arse. Presumably conveying his displeasure at my speed and driving was suddenly more important than getting to that sales meeting.
Did you make him brake when you entered his lane?
Very frustrating when you're doing 70 overtaking a load of slow moving traffic and some tube waits until you're a car length behind them and then pulls out (usually followed by a single token flash of the indicator after the manoeuvre) and makes you brake down to whatever they deem a 'safe' speed to be.
(Obviously doesn't excuse tailgating, just trying to understand why he would have gotten the rage)
[i]LFB[/i] please don't bring the London Fire Brigade into this.
Happy Christmas surf-mat, don't take it too seriously.
I would love to share this enthusiasm with others. Share knowledge. Share experiences
You really should come and join us over at ADUK..
Yip - I've got a shed load more driving qualifications than you. Thought as much. I can teach folk to a higher level than you are at.
I thought only god was more AWESOME (and even that's subject to debate) so would be the only person able to teach him 😉
Smurf, stop taking yourself so seriously. You mentioned LFB in a rather silly situation (which let's face it, muppet rep driver is exactly the sort of person who'll panic brake, skid and cause a crash, just maybe not with you), someone went a bit ott not really understanding what it is and you kicked off in your silly overly defensive way - the way that a five year old does if you say that their bike is crap.
Now I'm not one to generalise but are Audis the new badge of invincibility? I've had issues lately.
lately...? it's been a good 5+ years...
Did you make him brake when you entered his lane?
Very frustrating when you're doing 70 overtaking a load of slow moving traffic and some tube waits until you're a car length behind them and then pulls out (usually followed by a single token flash of the indicator after the manoeuvre) and makes you brake down to whatever they deem a 'safe' speed to be.
(Obviously doesn't excuse tailgating, just trying to understand why he would have gotten the rage)
If he'd been a sensible driver then he would have seen the developing situation, eased off the throttle for a few seconds and everything would have gone smoothly.
As it was, he did the whole "[i]not slowing down till I'm an inch from your rear bumper[/i]" thing to make his point and then stayed there for the next five minutes after I pulled back in.
I know what you are saying, causing other drivers to brake is bad, but i'm not sure what he expected me to do:
There was a lorry crawling onto the inside lane from the sliproad. So my options were, stay in lane and brake relatively sharply (which I try to avoid in the snow); or signal and pull out with plenty of room on the assumption that the Audi approaching behind me could cope with lifting his foot off the gas for a moment till I passed the lorry.
If the road is well gritted and clear, and it hasn't snowed for DAYS - PLEASE try to get above 20mph.If you can't, stay at home, you're a danger to other road users.
That will explain why the Lexus I was following up Marlow Hill on Friday night (before the snow & chaos) slowed down dramatically as it's back wheels span up on an apparantly clear & well gritted road & why I was saved from a prang this afternoon as the traffic lights turned green allowing the stationery vehicle I was about to rear end to move out of my way - yes you've got it - on another apparently clear & well gritted road. As they say better to be safe than a t**t.
For that reason I'm out.
This is the first flounce I have witnessed on STW.
1.
Quirrel - MemberFor that reason I'm out.
This is the first flounce I have witnessed on STW.
Posted 29 minutes ago # Report-Post
Awesome Revell Horwood?
1.- H + T is pointless and not possible in VAG group cars . You put your big toe on the brake and press, and use your side of your foot to roll over the throttle to blip it. But as soon as you touch the brake the throttle is cut , for economy reasons. Try driving up the road with your left foot just engaging the brakes and accelerate ..
2.- H + T can be used to help save the syncros in the gearbox, if its worn or cold. Approach a junction requiring a downchange , blip throttle and double de clutch. You should be able to pick the revs up enough so a nice smooth 4th to 2nd shift is possible without a graunch.
3.- On race cars H + T can be used to rev match to not overload the braking wheels with a sudden extra braking force from the transmission . The brakes slow the car , in maximum braking you dont want to bring up the clutch on a flat engine when your are leaning on the anchors as hard as you dare , so a blip will increase revs , allow the gear to be easily engaged as the cogs are all spinning together , and not add extra engine braking to the front wheels.
4.- H + T can be used to keep a large turbo spinning faster on downshifts , reducing lag . Not needed in a road car nowadays as the turbo technology has moved on with VANOS or VVT turbos and multiple set ups. A big T4 garret needed alot of gasses to spin up , and H + T helped this
The roads are full of useless drivers!
Associating bad driving with a particular brand of vehicle is totally stupid - the usual narrominded STW nonsene!
Best thing is to not drive, but this is impossible for many. If you have to, develop a thick skin as nobody is going to bang to rights the idiots who put your safety at risk.
People who are either aggressive, unattentive, or clueless will be able to carry on with indefinite impunity, because our PC society makes it impossible to put these wrongs right.
However, do expect to get fined if you stray into a bus lane, stop in the wrong place for a few seconds, or marginally excees the speed limit.
Cars - driving - waste of time.
Adapt your lifestyle so that you aren't dependant on four wheeled private transport.
If someone is tailgaiting me then I just want them away from my car. I pull over and let them move on to their next potential accident victim.
Brake testing them is just stupid and dangerous.
allthepies - MemberIf someone is tailgaiting me then I just want them away from my car. I pull over and let them move on to their next potential accident victim.
Brake testing them is just stupid and dangerous.
Spot on, just let them pass without winding them up any more that they already are.
[8 years of commuting by bike makes me think about my safety first on the road]
😉
Actually, according to Einstein, your willy will get longer the faster you drive, well.... depending on how it's orientated, it may just get wider if you dress to either side.
Or is that the other way round? either way it made me laugh for 16 or 17 seconds and that really, is what counts in my box
Spongebob - MemberThe roads are full of useless drivers!
Associating bad driving with a particular brand of vehicle is totally stupid - the usual narrominded STW nonsene!
Best thing is to not drive, but this is impossible for many. If you have to, develop a thick skin as nobody is going to bang to rights the idiots who put your safety at risk.
People who are either aggressive, unattentive, or clueless will be able to carry on with indefinite impunity, because our PC society makes it impossible to put these wrongs right.
However, do expect to get fined if you stray into a bus lane, stop in the wrong place for a few seconds, or marginally excees the speed limit.
Cars - driving - waste of time.
Adapt your lifestyle so that you aren't dependant on four wheeled private transport.
+1 on that, why i dont road cycle too except between trails 😮
If as an example mentioned very much earlier you wish to clean a bit of rust/grime from your discs by dragging your brakes on a VAG car it is possible. Foot all the way off the throttle, press the brake then reapply the throttle, she'll pull as normal then just feather the brake so the big lump doesn't stall, handy for cleaning dirty brakes.
ECU cutting the throttle when the brakes are pressed is good news all round if your throttle ever sticks on, Toyota found this out the hard way....
Or, surely, just leave a bit more room next time you want to stop, and stop as normal.
then your disks will be just as clean :s
i also cant imagine many cars have engines that can over power thier brakes.
even in first, with some revs, I reckon if I pushed the brake even moderately it would just stall?
I suppose I should of said your already rolling for the hard of thinking....
singletrackmind - Member
1.- H + T is pointless and not possible in VAG group cars . You put your big toe on the brake and press, and use your side of your foot to roll over the throttle to blip it. But as soon as you touch the brake the throttle is cut , for economy reasons. Try driving up the road with your left foot just engaging the brakes and accelerate ..
2.- H + T can be used to help save the syncros in the gearbox, if its worn or cold. Approach a junction requiring a downchange , blip throttle and double de clutch. You should be able to pick the revs up enough so a nice smooth 4th to 2nd shift is possible without a graunch.
3.- On race cars H + T can be used to rev match to not overload the braking wheels with a sudden extra braking force from the transmission . The brakes slow the car , in maximum braking you dont want to bring up the clutch on a flat engine when your are leaning on the anchors as hard as you dare , so a blip will increase revs , allow the gear to be easily engaged as the cogs are all spinning together , and not add extra engine braking to the front wheels.
4.- H + T can be used to keep a large turbo spinning faster on downshifts , reducing lag . Not needed in a road car nowadays as the turbo technology has moved on with VANOS or VVT turbos and multiple set ups. A big T4 garret needed alot of gasses to spin up , and H + T helped this
At last, someone speaks sense!
I have to say I have been a member on here for a while, & I have always enjoyed car threads as they are the rare opportunity I get to positively contribute to the forum. I have for the last 25 years driven, maintained & sold fast cars, driven some stupid exotica & generally have a bit of experience with fast cars. Surf Mat has taken that away from me with his incessant insistence that whatever he says is right & everyone else is wrong, well I would just like to say that the bloke is an utter tool, I don't care that he will say some rubbish about stalkers & haters, it's not true, [i]moderated[/i]
If anyone thinks Mat is a sound person, or even if the man himself is game, could they start a pole thread to find out what the general forum consensus is?
Normally I would say live & let live, but on this occasion it is boyond me.
Cheers, & Mat, I genuinely hope you have a wonderful Christmas.
I must say, in this incarnation SBZ/glupton has kept a lot quieter on his own areas of awesomeness in his posts. (lest we forget the athletic and academic genius of the older versions 😉 ) But yes in this instance, as much as we like an argument we really should heed his advice.
It's interesting to hear that you seem to be going off driving altogether George... Cycle commuting too much fun or driving getting less fun?
Agreed. I've always thought that George speaks a lot of sense about driving standards, road safety etc. (Plenty of crap on other issues of course in the past, but he knows his onions when it comes to driving).
stumpy01 - MemberPS - You Thetfording over Christmas?? Hope you have a nice break.
Yes but not sure when.
Have a good christmas.
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