[Closed] Driving Below The Speed Limit Does Not Make You Less Of A Man

Dear Audi driver,

sums it up pretty much.

I was amused on tuesdayby there being one clear lane of 50mph traffic, and the outer lane of slush, being littered with Rep mobiles straddling the barrier where they had spun off.

Muppets.

Just gradually slow down more and more the longer they tailgate you. I find that usually works.

Just gradually slow down more and more the longer they tailgate you. I find that usually works.

+1

and i'm sure it says it in the highway code.

Followed a lazy bint down the road from my house this morning who hadnt cleared the ice off her car. 10mph with her wipers going furiously etc.
Got to the junction realised she could not pull out cos both side windows obscured and frozen shut. Sat there for a minute then clearly just took a chance!
I know its school hols etc but the number of young ones (mine included) who are usually milling around that time of morning and to have lazy idiots like this on the road really winds me up!!!!"!! 👿

I do what clubber suggests.

Mind you, I typically drive at 50 - 60 on A roads and motorways now anyway. It's amazing how many more mpg I get and the journeys don't seem to take much longer - the amount of times you catch up to faster traffic at traffic lights and round abouts etc. Plus, taking it slow makes things much more relaxing and keeps the blood pressure down.

I agree with clubber. If they're not at a safe braking distance behind you, reduce speed to the point where the gap they're leaving becomes a safe braking distance.

Give hime a break, he's clearly got sales targets to meet to pay for his oversized and underpowered repmobile.

Sound advice. As it was we both had to slow down to a sub-10mph crawl anyway as we approached another accident.

In some ways I wish he had gone for the sketchy overtake, had a wobble and shat himself.
Then when he later found himself just one place ahead of me in the queue, he might have reflected whether it was all worth the stress.

I usually left foot brake first of all to shake tailgaters - press the pedal just enough to activate the brake light but don't slow down. Mosy get the message. If they don't, slow down and down and down as mentioned.

Tailgaters are hateful even in perfect weather. In ice it's REALLY stupid.

Sounds like the idiot that came up behind me on a rutted icy road with about 3 inches of ice still on it. Kept getting closer and closer already done the braking thing so just flashed my hazards to try and get them the idea so they took that as a sign to overtake bearing in mind that it was a normal A road - of course when they crossed out of the ruts I should think they got a scare. The transit van 2ft of there back followed directly behind them. They then got to the car that was a 100yds in front of me and couldnt overtake anymore as the road became windy in any case.

Surf-Mat - that is just not awesome. Quite dangerous infact.

Just lift off and control the space around you. It's up to you to ensure you have safe distances around you for emergency maneuvers. If that means lifting off to for a few minutes then returning to your previous speed to increase the gap, then that is fine.

Either that or just throw stuff out the sunroof at them.

Quirrel +1billion.

I've stopped completely due to tailgaters on my motorbike, blocked the road and gone to have a "chat". I really am quite brave as long as I keep my helmet on! I stick to 30 mph speed limits, regardless of weather conditions, and I am not ashamed to admit it.

Left foot brakers are hateful even in perfect weather. In ice it's REALLY stupid.

Corrected that for you Surf-Mat

"Mind you, I typically drive at 50 - 60 on A roads and motorways now anyway"

Why its dangerous to drive at those kind of speeds on a motorways and causes all kinds of congestion.

Minimum speed limits need to be brought in for Motorways IMO (conditions permitting)

I stick to 30 mph speed limits

Whats wrong with that? The only speed limits i tend to go over are on the motorway when if it is clear ill set the cruise control to 80. As someone said on the diesel thread backing off saves you some fuel and usually costs you a couple of minutes at most

Driving at 60 on a motorway is fine.

Driving at 50 is fine as long as you are in the correct lane.

Trucks are limited to 56mph and that isn't deemed dangerous.

Surf-Mat - that is just not awesome. Quite dangerous infact.

Now I realise it really is a silly thing to do.

Agree with Waderider, Since I got my van I've slowed right down, I just chill out with the cruise control on, driving is way nicer! Journey times aren't that much longer and it's so much less stressful.

"As someone said on the diesel thread backing off saves you some fuel and usually costs you a couple of minutes at most"

I disagree on this one. 50 mile commute on the M1. Averaging about 60 I will get if Im lucky about 52mpg. 70-80mph 48-50mpg. 90 ish 46-47mpg.

So the mpg v time doesnt really work on that one, at least in my car.

I have no problem with people doing slow speeds on motorways. However they tend to be the ones who sit in the middle lane without a clue whats going on around them, or the ones that travel slower than lorries in the inside lane, forcing lorries to have to overtake them which then slows the whole traffic flow.

Oh then theres the motorway drivers who touch their brakes every 2 minutes because they are incapable of judging the speed and flow of the traffic ahead...

Funkydunc you're wrong, if everyone drove more considerately, pulled back into the left after overtaking and stopped braking like mad for no apparent reason congestion would be dramatically cut on motorways/dual carriageways, sittig at 50-60 makes little to no difference.

Oh then theres the motorway drivers who touch their brakes every 2 minutes because they are incapable of judging the speed and flow of the traffic ahead...

Whats wrong with that?

I have no idea but it seems to really piss the vast majority of drivers off. I find tailgaters who overtake me in the 30 zone get especially annoyed when I filter back past them at the lights, but I only save that trick for when people have really annoyed me, usually I try to let idiots go whenever possible

monkeyfudger I'm saying the same thing, just you can do all that with some travelling at 50mph and some at 80mph. People just are not generally alert enough to whats going on around them.

I've been guilty of tailgating myself. When you drive on motorways you end up seeing some how little notice people take of whats going on around.

You can come up behind some one in the outside lane doing 60mph with no traffic in the middle lane and they simply will not budge. You either have to get too close, or flash your lighhts to get them to move over. (I'm not saying its right)

To tailgate like the Audi above is just stupid..

Just gradually slow down more and more the longer they tailgate you.

Tailgating really winds me up, I often respond quite childishly, normally I just blast away from them once the lane in front is clear. If I catch slower traffic and they catch back up I just repeat until they learn not to sit up my arse, normally doesn't take anymore than three goes at this for them to be educated.

The best fun though is "tailgating the tailgaters". Occassionally if I see some really bad tailgating in front of me, you know the type big Audi/BMW/Merc right up the arse of an old lady in a Corsa, I'll return the favour. This is particularly good fun in my brother's Evo, especially if the antilag is on.

This is neither big nor clever but I can't help feeling satisfied when some repmobile driving twunt sheepishly pulls over becuase they don't like receiving the treatment they happily dish out to others.

I disagree on this one. 50 mile commute on the M1. Averaging about 60 I will get if Im lucky about 52mpg. 70-80mph 48-50mpg. 90 ish 46-47mpg.

My car if i stick to 70 seems to get around the 50mpg mark if you go up to 80 it drops to around 42 so there is quite a difference. Not that it matters a huge amount to me as I have a fuel card from work but the difference in getting stressed with other drivers does make a difference and makes the journey more relaxing.

I'll accept driving at 60 on a motorway as reasonable behaviour. Driving at 50 however means all the heavies will be pulling into the 2nd lane to overtake, which will cause congestion. Have you actually tried driving at that speed and seeing what happens?

The sooner that people learn to just let it go the better. Driving isnt a competition. And lets face it, if it was everyone would be red carded for unsporting behaviour.

Surf-Mat - that is just not awesome. Quite dangerous infact.

WHY is it dangerous? The tailgater thinks you're braking but you're not. Maybe dangerous if you can't tell when a brake starts actually braking but to anyone with a sense of feeling in their foot - not at all dangerous.

So get off your high horse and naff off.

A lot of people tailgate by mistake - they just drift too close. Letting them know they are doing it often makes them back off. And a brake light in the eyes is a very good way of informing them.

I usually just slam on my brakes so that the car rams into the back of mine.

Then I get a shiny new one with the insurance. Easy.

Why is it dangerous? OK. What is your reaction when you have found yourself a wee bit too close to the car infront and they start to brake? You brake harder to avoid hitting them. What does the person behind them have to do? Yes that's correct - brake even harder. This continues in this trend or shockwave until either the traffic has come to a complete stop or there is a crash. All because you thought you were AWESOME in your left foot braking ability. Also - what happens if you need to pull an emergency stop when you've got your left foot on the brake? Enjoy your AWESOME trip to A&E after you've hit the barrier.

+1 for left foot braking ,or a quick flash of the fog lights has the same effect.

So hang on a second what you are actually saying is that its the people driving behind the person who taps the brake peddal that are driving dangerously....

Its the people who cant judge speed and traffic flow who tap their brakes every 2 mins that cause accidents.

Going back to my uber horsepower nissan, i'd been tinckering with the fuel map to the point where the injectors were dumping huge amount of fuel into the manifold when you lifted off the loud pedal. The result was about 12 foot of flame out the rear. Had a tailgater follow me into a corner in 30 mph zone, all of 4 foot off my bumper. The flames probably reached his faux cosworth spoiler on the back of his car, certainly went over his windscreen. He backed way off then.

And touching the brake pedal is a big no-no. Gernerally if the driver is that close, they are looking in front of the car they are tailgating. A hint of lights and they often panic brake or they get conditioned to seeing the brake lights and cease to pay attention to them. Bit like the fella who cried wolf

Why is it dangerous? OK. What is your reaction when you have found yourself a wee bit too close to the car infront and they start to brake? You brake harder to avoid hitting them. What does the person behind them have to do? Yes that's correct - brake even harder. This continues in this trend or shockwave until either the traffic has come to a complete stop or there is a crash. All because you thought you were AWESOME in your left foot braking ability. Also - what happens if you need to pull an emergency stop when you've got your left foot on the brake? Enjoy your AWESOME trip to A&E after you've hit the barrier.

Not the brightest of drivers are you?

Have you heard of looking [b]further[/b] than just the car behind or ahead to properly assess the best course of action? Clearly [b]not.[/b]

And emergency braking? It's called braking with your LEFT FOOT. As used by many racing and rally drivers. And anyone with a modicum of driver skill.

You sound to me like the only training you've ever had is many many years ago when you learned to drive - and that's it.

Nice try but in your own words, FAIL.

Clong - 😆

clubber+1

Tailgating is sheer folly, an accident in-waiting.

The key to driving slowly is to actively monitor what's going on behind and work-up opportunities to let faster vehicles pass. That means slowing down and moving left where there is clear visibility to be passed, or occasionally pulling over and stopping to let multiple vehicles pass.

I do this all the time to avoid aggressive tailgaters. Let the idiots collide into someone else.

Surf-Mat - you simply do not know how wrong you are. Someone care to tell him just how wrong he is?

SurfMat, for someone who's IAM, you do come out with some classics!! please don't tell me someone from the IAM taught you that one??

For the record my advice would be:

Don't be bullied,
Ease off genty to open up a gap between you and the one in front (to enable you to increase your braking distance should you need to slow or stop)

[u]Do not[/u], brake unecessarily, show them brake lights, or slow suddenly - all you'll do is put you, them and potentially others in more danger.

If necessary pull over to let them pass.

GrahamS earlier

[img] [/img]

IAM - Is that the Institute of Awesome Motorists?

My advice would be if you want to do 50 then do so but if people want to pass then pull over. Drove 4 hours yesterday in acceptable conditions until Newtown in Powys to be held back by a total idiot towing another vehicle. In spite of numerous clear lay byes this moron thought it acceptable to pass them all at a steady 30mph on the A483 - 14 miles later the cue of traffic was enormous and pretty fed up!

Your speed is your speed don't subject others to it whether too fast OR too slow

Slightly miffed of Welshpool.

pull over to let them pass

When its safe to do so, the above works for me, too.

Give up on trying to teach other drivers how to correct their bad ways & work on driving as safe as possible.

At the age of 17, two weeks after passing my test, in a Morris Minor, going pretty much flat out at 50mph in a 60mph limit, had a guy tailgate me. When he found a space long enough he overtook me giving me the finger as he passed.

Two miles down the road.......

In a 30mph limit, the same driver was out of his car by the side of the road, having a right telling off for speeding by a PC, so I slowed right down and smiled as I returned the finger, even the PC laughed 😉

I find gently dropping a gear or two in our 160k Mondeo emitts a dense black sooty smoke screen to put them off. 🙂

How wrong is Surf-Mat

On a scale of 1-2, 1 being wrong, 2 being completely wrong I give him a 3.

The more I read of Surf-Mat's posts the more I think about roosters.

GrahamS earlier

I don't bloody belieeeeeeve it.
(not a bad likeness actually 😳 )

My advice would be if you want to do 50 then do so but if people want to pass then pull over.

In my situation 50 was a perfectly reasonable speed for anyone who is remotely interested in driving appropriately for the conditions, and he had a second lane to overtake me if he wished but he was clearly more interested in showing me the error of my ways*

* I picked him up when I pulled into the outside lane to allow a truck on from the sliproad. This meant Mr Audi had to ease off ever so slightly because I had dared to enter "his" lane for a few seconds. When I pulled back into the inside lane Mr Audi pulled in with me and sat 6 inches off my arse. Presumably conveying his displeasure at my speed and driving was suddenly more important than getting to that sales meeting.

my mate used to run around in his dad's mk2 escort...slight downward pressure on the gearstick made the reversing lights come on...even at 70 in 4th gear....that made most back off.

I'm thinking Foghorn Leghorn. That's one big rooster!

or pulling the handbrake has (allegedly) the same effect without lights....

In my car, touching the brake cuts the throttle so I can't follow surf-mats suggestion of dabbing the brakes while maintaining speed (not that i would anymore, although I admit to doing it in my yoof).

It's quite annoying as in my old Fiesta, if I'd washed the car and the brake discs had a film of rust on them & were a bit 'scrapy' the next time I drove it, I'd just drive for a few yards with my left foot lightly on the brake to get the rust off. In the Ibiza, touching the brake kills the throttle so you can't maintain any speed to scrub the disc.

I imagine it's a trait across other VAG cars.

FWIW, I now just slow down when I am tailgated to increase my gap to the car in front. As I see it, if there is some kind of accident/obstruction ahead this gives me more room to brake into so I can brake more gently meaning tailgating div probably won't end up sat on my back seat.
Or I just move over (and probably in all honesty flick them the bird as they pass).

I am not sure that anyone with a modicum of driver skill should need to use left foot braking on a regular basis. I know some fairly skilled drivers (yes, IAM trained etc.) and none of them use left foot braking in everyday driving.

Can you not heel and toe then, stumpy?

takisawa2 - Member
I find gently dropping a gear or two in our 160k Mondeo emitts a dense black sooty smoke screen to put them off.

I had some bloke in a vectra tailgate me a couple of minutes after one of the boost pipe connections failed on my Ibiza. I had come off the main road onto a minor road & was driving at about 50mph on a very light throttle to limit the 'soot cloud' I was creating.
I waited 30s or so to see if he backed off, then when he didn't I just stuck my foot to the floor. My car barely pulled away as the performance has pretty much disappeared, but the ensuing soot screen soon had him backing off!

Let's face it, people who left foot brake on the road do it because they think they'd have been a brilliant F1 driver if only someone had talent spotted them 😀

Driving home very late one night from Derby up the A52 towards Ashbourne I picked up a tailgater. The road used to be a 60mph limit but has been reduced to 50mph with lots of 30mph sections through villages and it's almost impossible to overtake - windy roads, double white lines, single carriageway. This was about 11pm, nothing on the roads at all, good conditions.

Nothing shook this guy off. I tried driving at everything from 50 to 65, although I always stuck to 30mph through the villages. In the end I just blocked him out, he refused to come through even on the one section of dual carriageway.

Got to the roundabout entering Ashbourne, glanced in the wing mirror and realised for the first time that it was a bloody police car! My guess is he'd just been waiting for an excuse to pull me over like if I used my mobile or something. He'd been really bugging me though, 10ft off my rear bumper for the entire 12 miles of that road. 👿

I had some bloke in a vectra tailgate me a couple of minutes after one of the boost pipe connections failed on my Ibiza. I had come off the main road onto a minor road & was driving at about 50mph on a very light throttle to limit the 'soot cloud' I was creating.
I waited 30s or so to see if he backed off, then when he didn't I just stuck my foot to the floor. My car barely pulled away as the performance has pretty much disappeared, but the ensuing soot screen soon had him backing off!

Dangerous but I'll admit it has made me laugh 😆

Surely trying to produce a big smoke cloud to, which reduces their visability to zero, is far more dangerous than giving a tap on the brake to let them know they are too close?

Can you not heel and toe then, stumpy?

Nice to see ONE person who actually knows about left foot braking!

SbZ and Quirrel - nice angle there. Just tell everyone how wrong you think I am then offer NOT A SINGLE useful bit of input yourselves.

SbZ - you've shown time and time again that you are a pretty crummy driver. I have no idea who this latest stalker geek "Quirrel" is but he is also clearly a driving chump.

1)Points on your license please?
2)Amount of extra training please?

Oh and without googling, explain "sustained" gearchanging to me? What you can't? No there's a surprise.

Answers:

1)Probably many.
2) Clearly none

Neeext.

aracer - Member
Can you not heel and toe then, stumpy?

No, but can't say I've ever felt the need. A lot of modern cars don't lend themselves to it very well due to pedal spacing/heights/throttle response etc.

What has heel & toe got to do with left foot braking though?
Heel & toe is using your right foot to control the brake and throttle simultaneously, isn't it??
Whereas left foot braking is using your erm, left foot to brake while your right foot controls the throttle.

Or were you being sarcastic/ironic and I just completely missed it?? 🙂

Does surfmat know who SBZ used to be?

Go on who did SBZ used to be ?

Have I missed the point too?? Left foot braking is very different to toe and heeling.

[i]Nice to see ONE person who actually knows about left foot braking! [/i]

Left-foot braking is indeed a v.useful advanced level skill with it's uses* mat 🙂 ..deterring tail gaters is not one of them..

(*Bringing back fond memories of my rally-x days)

[img] [/img]

Glupton/smee wasn't it?

Nice to see ONE person who actually knows about left foot braking!

Not trying to stir things up, but what does left foot braking have to do with aracers mention of heel & toe??

From erm, Wikipedia:

"Heel-and-toe
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about the driving technique. For the similarly-named drumming technique, see Heel-toe technique.
[b]Not to be confused with left-foot braking[/b]"

and then at the bottom of the article:

"Note

An unrelated technique, called left-foot braking should not be confused with heel-and-toe."

full path here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heel-and-toe

OH - might have just had a realisation. aracer, did you mean specifically in my car??

crispo - didn't reduce their visibility to zero, but yes probably a little dangerous. Not sure it's more/less dangerous than lighting up the brake lights. Obviously, I wouldn't have done it approaching a busy junction/roundabout or on a very twisty road or with other cars around. This was just me and vectra boy on a dead straight road. Would I do it again? Perhaps.

Ditto stumpy - I'm rather confused as to what LFB has to do with H&T though clearly H&T is about rev matching (sorry, sustained gearchanging) so either SM is just trying to demonstrate his all round AWESOMENESS in driving ability or is just as clueless as most other people clearly are about techniques that are for racing really, not normal road driving.

couldn get on with Left foot braking, (and utterly pointless on the road i found at the same time)

Heel and toe however, very useful, especially in the snow!

A blip of throttle, while braking into a corner just under normal driving conditions and speeds allows you to shift down to a happier gear without jolting the drive chain and wheels and decidedly reduces the probability of off balancing the car on a slippy bit.

Both my peugeots have/had very close together pedals, and the brake biting point (not resting point) was exactly level with the throttle.

This was just me and vectra boy on a dead straight road. Would I do it again? Perhaps.

😆 HaHa I probably would have to!

Some modern cars dont allow you to do left foot braking because of over sensitive ABS and cutting the power as soon as the brake pedal is applied.

To be fair though for left foot braking to work you have to be going pretty dam quick and near the limit of the cars grip in the first place.

Being in a car with some one who can do it properly though is just amazing the car just digs in at the nose in a way that you wouldnt beleive and it doesnt feel like the rear is sliding at all.

"Heel and toe however, very useful, especially in the snow!"

How does that one work? The whole point of toe and healing is to allow you to drop in to a lower gear so that your ready to exit the corner at high revs and max power. Its also about braking hard in to the corner, on snow thats pointless !

On the other hand using the dab of the handbrake and lots of throttle on opposite lock is great fun.

Thing is Olly in road cars, the flywheel is heavy enough that blipping the throttle will have the same effect as H&T - unless of course you think you're a racing driver and are braking on the absolute limit all the time...

blip may be the wrong word.

"carefully bringing the engine speed up to match the wheel speed while maintaining braking pressure"

Also, i want a copy of that book

Surf_Mat.

To answer your questions:

1) - 0
2) - More than you could ever imagine.

Surrounded By Zulus - Member
Surf_Mat.

To answer your questions:

1) - 0
2) - More than you could ever imagine.

You're not the ex-Stig are you??

I seem to remember you contributing to Police type threads in a fairly informed manner, so are you car-based plod??

this thread is beautiful 😆

Mat, it isn't dangerous for you at all if you blip the brake lights. So if you don't consider anyone other than yourself as being important, your view makes perfect sense.

Nice to see ONE person who actually knows about left foot braking!

SbZ and Quirrel - nice angle there. Just tell everyone how wrong you think I am then offer NOT A SINGLE useful bit of input yourselves.

SbZ - you've shown time and time again that you are a pretty crummy driver. I have no idea who this latest stalker geek "Quirrel" is but he is also clearly a driving chump.

1)Points on your license please?
2)Amount of extra training please?

Oh and without googling, explain "sustained" gearchanging to me? What you can't? No there's a surprise.

Answers:

1)Probably many.
2) Clearly none

Neeext.

Nice attempt at an anti-troll hook.

No points ever.
Limited extra training from bike school.

However I don't spend my days spouting stuff about driving that I found on wikipedia trying to justify LFB which really should have been put as "touching the brake with my left foot to cause the microswitch to activate the brake lights without acutally causing me to brake."

That isn't quite the same as left foot braking, is it! I think if were were to give it letters it would be something like

Surf Mats Left Foot Braking Technique That He Misread On Wikipedia And Thought It Would Sound Cool If He Said He Did It To Stop Tailgaters.

SMLFBTTHMOWATIWSCIHSHDITST

Posting about your driving ability on the internet does not make you more of a man.

IME people who tell you about their wonderful driving skills are often the worst when you have the misfortune to get in a car with them.

Not car based plod. Used to do a nice side line in teaching various levels of driving to people though.

What has heel & toe got to do with left foot braking though?

As Olly mentions it is a useful technique in snow (or off-road in a 4x4) - though personally I'd be more likely to use it when descending a hill than coming into a corner. It allows you to use a bit of brake pressure to keep the speed down whilst shifting down and matching the engine to the speed of the wheels so there is no sudden traction breaking deceleration when you lift the clutch. The shifting down being because engine braking is better than the brakes at keeping traction. Can't say it's something I'd do much though.